Tank World Order (6.0)

[Bruin]

Fred, Pascal, OG, and Gary all just got the "bag."

None of them are are going to be free agents this summer so how does this even make sense?

Gary is gonna be a free agent next year

He has a player option after the 2022-2023 season.

So you agree that he's not currently in a contract season?

Did Pooh ever say he was currently in a contract season? I think not

[Danny1616]

This is one of the big problems with the construction of the team right now. You have all these players betting on themselves and being incentivized to put up stats to get the bag and personal accomplishments. It's fine if it's one or two guys, not the core of your team.

Fred, Pascal, OG, and Gary all just got the "bag."

None of them are are going to be free agents this summer so how does this even make sense?

Our biggest holes this year are the following:

1) Injuries - OG, Birch and Precious have missed considerable time

2) Our bench - Bench production has been bad

3) Lack of a true center

Just saying our players are selfish is devoid of actual substantive analysis.

Sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture.

Pascal has 2 years left, FVV and Trent each have one more year remaining then player options. Even OG has a player option in his last year.

The more individual accomplishments and numbers they can secure means bigger paydays on the open market. Pascal was already rewarded with a bigger contract because of getting All-NBA and Trent has incentives in his contract as well.

All the players know they aren't sniffing an all-star team or all-NBA team unless the team is good. Also what are these incentives that GTJ is getting? I have not seen these incentives before.

Fred even said that himself in his early year interview. His goal is to be an all-star, but if the team sucks he won't get that recognition. Demar and Lowry didn't make the all-star teams only because of individual stats, it's because we won 50+ games. Players know that the best players on playoff teams get rewarded, not players on bad teams that take a lot of shots.

Fred quote:

“I definitely would like to be an all-star,” said VanVleet. “I want to win all the awards. I want to be All-Defensive … Those are all goals that I have. The good thing for me is that I probably won’t achieve any of those if we aren’t a good team or a top team.”

You just aren't providing a comprehensive analysis on the flaws of the team. You just provide a black and white picture. Often your analysis is littered with conspiracies and hypotheticals. Your argument would make more sense if some of these core players were actually in contract years. None of them are.

Also injuries do matter. Heat have a great team but have been hit hard by injuries. They started 7-1 and are now 15-11, so they are 8-10 in there last 18.

Denver has had injury issues and have arguably the MVP of the league. They are 12-12.

Lakers have had injuries to key players, particularly Lebron. Despite having AD and Russ they are 13-12.

Bucks had a very slow start without Jrue. Now that Jrue is back they've been on a roll.

[Danny1616]

Gary is gonna be a free agent next year

He has a player option after the 2022-2023 season.

So you agree that he's not currently in a contract season?

Did Pooh ever say he was currently in a contract season? I think not

He said they are playing for their next contract and therefore are playing selfishly.

I simply pointed out that none of the core players in a contract season so the argument doesn't have much credence. And much of the hate here has been at Fred who still has two years left on his deal. Pascal is also only taking 15 shots a night compared to 17 last year and 18.5 the year before.

[Ell Curry]

I just want to be at a point where we were before the Kawhi trade. That should be the mission. Ppl forget we argued for years to trade the prospests and go all in. Our team was stacked before the kawhi trade.

Lowry/FVV/
DD/ Delon Wright
Powell/OG
Ibaka/ Pascal
JV / Poeltl

Just a stacked roster. We need to get there

Yeah, right now we have 5 definite guys in Van Vleet, Trent, OG, Barnes, Siakam. I agree that Masai is probably looking to get to 7 or 8 again then make a move. We should have another decent draft pick this coming year, but I'm worried like Precious + Dragic instead of 19M in cap space or a Lowry deadline deal might have cost us another one unless Precious comes good. Banton has a shot too obviously.

meh, Lowry brought us a championship. Greatest raptor ever. i think he wanted to be in Miami. Tbh I rather Precious an expiring than signing some guy for 18 million.

Our free agent history is Carroll...I don't want a bad long term contract. I'll gamble w Precious

I'd have preferred Holmes for 13M a year or trading Boucher for nothing to some team with 7M in cap room and throwing 25M at Lonzo or Jarrett Allen since they're so young.

Lowry is great, but Miami would have had 20M in cap room (without picking up Dragic' option) and could have given him his 85M over 4 years instead of 3 and he probably wouldn't have lost much since he'd be 39 when that contract ends he's not getting any more money then anyways. I love Lowry, but even if he had to take 65/3 from Miami and like 5M guaranteed in that 4th year I don't think that's doing him dirty.

[HumbleRen]

Read on Twitter

[JShuttlesworth]

18.8%? Sheesh that seems low

FiveThirtyEight has us at 23% which is just as bad

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Is that percentag estimate making the 10th seed or better?

We're playing for ninth here. What kind of treadmill am I running on here?

[Chandan]

Also injuries do matter. Heat have a great team but have been hit hard by injuries. They started 7-1 and are now 15-11, so they are 8-10 in there last 18.

Denver has had injury issues and have arguably the MVP of the league. They are 12-12.

Lakers have had injuries to key players, particularly Lebron. Despite having AD and Russ they are 13-12.

Bucks had a very slow start without Jrue. Now that Jrue is back they've been on a roll.

why are you talking about the raptors like they are in the same situation as Denver lakers bucks heat?
We KNOW they have great players. They are a lock for the playoffs without injuries. Raptors on the other hand are on the tier of a play in team even with a full squad.

[JShuttlesworth]

Caleb starting to put some games together, I don't know if these have been posted yet.

Here he is against San Diego St. showing off that quick release and NBA range

Watch on YouTube

Against Nebraska he knocks down four long balls, but also a few travelling violations

Watch on YouTube

[Bruin]

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[tdotrep2]

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GYAAAAAAAAT

id sell my left nut for him to be our pg

[God Squad]

End of Season if we stay in lets say 7-10 heres who I'm looking at/taking

Kendall Brown - I have no comp for him really. But I like his bounce/passing and feel.

Jovic - Need to see more other than Fiba U19

Bennedict Mathurin - Canadian/Scorer

AJ Griffin - Needs to play better to be considered

I really don't like this lotto too much either lol. I can talk myself into a few, but no one other than Ivey in the top 5 and maybe Kendall and Bennedict in the lotto.

I just thought of a ceiling comp for Kendall Brown!

GRANT HILL!!! Good size, handles, hops and great feel for the game and high BBall IQ.

Hill spent all 4 years at Duke and I feel like Brown as a freshman is probably comparable to sophomore Hill.

He's probably the guy I like most in our range. I see a lot of untapped potential in his game. Hopefully more people join me or think the same.

[God Squad]

you have zero data keep walking on that flat earth

He's not incorrect.

About 70 people have voted in this thread, which is a relatively small sample size compared to other threads.

Look at this for example:

viewtopic.php?f=32&p=93424832

Barnes vs. Suggs thread from August had over 230 votes.

So 70 compared to 230 is a pretty damn big sample size difference, wouldn't you agree? And as rightly pointed out, most people that do post here are inherently pro-tank as this is the tank thread.

You guys are more than welcome to make another thread about it with a poll. But at the moment this is the data we have, maybe its 50/50 or 40/60 who knows. But your boy said 99% are against it and was attacking another poster singling him out, which is just garbage he's making up.

Aw I see you weren't around for Raptors-Canadian Legend Myck Kabongo. I have no idea how we tried to talk our self's into frickin Mck Kabongo.

[Bowdystuda]

Read on Twitter

I wonder if it has to do with our remaining schedule and who we have beat. I already broke down my view on the remaining schedule and where we could possibly land and this definitely validates it. They probably looked at who we have left to play and who we have actually beaten. Which is no one good. I think Masai sees the writing on the wall and we will slowly move people out. For us to make the playoffs at these odds, would be a miracle.

[HumbleRen]

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I wonder if it has to do with our remaining schedule and who we have beat. I already broke down my view on the remaining schedule and where we could possibly land and this definitely validates it. They probably looked at who we have left to play and who we have actually beaten. Which is no one good. I think Masai sees the writing on the wall and we will slowly move people out. For us to make the playoffs at these odds, would be a miracle.

This stretch was our best chance to make the playoffs, I expect a pivot or play on as usual since we’re ass anyways.

[ItsDanger]

What a great finish in Purdue/Rutgers game. Puts NBA product to shame.

Watch on YouTube

[Tacoma]

Also injuries do matter. Heat have a great team but have been hit hard by injuries. They started 7-1 and are now 15-11, so they are 8-10 in there last 18.

Denver has had injury issues and have arguably the MVP of the league. They are 12-12.

Lakers have had injuries to key players, particularly Lebron. Despite having AD and Russ they are 13-12.

Bucks had a very slow start without Jrue. Now that Jrue is back they've been on a roll.

why are you talking about the raptors like they are in the same situation as Denver lakers bucks heat?
We KNOW they have great players. They are a lock for the playoffs without injuries. Raptors on the other hand are on the tier of a play in team even with a full squad.

Injuries have been used as an excuse by many here as if we're the only team with injuries. "Man Games Lost" has posted a chart as of Dec 6 of games missed due to injuries by team, which clearly shows the Raptors are mid-pack in games missed.

Teams around us in the standings like IND, CLE & DEN have had more injuries, and others just ahead of us like PHI & WASH have also had more injuries. They all can make the same excuse. Our standing relative to those other teams - borderline play-in team in the 7-12th spot - is reflected by our talent level (i.e., we're short of it) and that's basically it. No excuses.

[Danny1616]

Also injuries do matter. Heat have a great team but have been hit hard by injuries. They started 7-1 and are now 15-11, so they are 8-10 in there last 18.

Denver has had injury issues and have arguably the MVP of the league. They are 12-12.

Lakers have had injuries to key players, particularly Lebron. Despite having AD and Russ they are 13-12.

Bucks had a very slow start without Jrue. Now that Jrue is back they've been on a roll.

why are you talking about the raptors like they are in the same situation as Denver lakers bucks heat?
We KNOW they have great players. They are a lock for the playoffs without injuries. Raptors on the other hand are on the tier of a play in team even with a full squad.

Injuries have been used as an excuse by many here as if we're the only team with injuries. "Man Games Lost" has posted a chart as of Dec 6 of games missed due to injuries by team, which clearly shows the Raptors are mid-pack in games missed.

Teams around us in the standings like IND, CLE & DEN have had more injuries, and others just ahead of us like PHI & WASH have also had more injuries. They all can make the same excuse. Our standing relative to those other teams - borderline play-in team in the 7-12th spot - is reflected by our talent level (i.e., we're short of it) and that's basically it. No excuses.

You also have to factor in which players are injured.

OG was a critical piece for us and arguably our best player early on in the season. Precious has been our best defensive rebounder and rim protector. Missing them for large parts of the season has hurt us.

And yes, Indiana, Cleveland and Denver as you pointed have been affected similar to us.

Denver is usually a 50+ win team with the MVP and are 12-13. That's due to injuries.

Indiana is usually a .500+ team but due to injuries are 11-16.

Cleveland actually has a solid team this year but lost a few games when Mobley got hurt. They are 14-12.

You can also bring up the Lakers who have missed Lebron for a bunch of games are a 13-13.

Philly also had a great start (7-2) but lost Embiid for a few games and are now 14-12.

So I don't know what you are trying to say. You rightly pointed out that other teams are suffering from injuries and the teams that are, despite being talented, don't have good records either. It really does help if your team is healthy, evidenced by exactly the teams that have major injuries have struggled at times.

[TrustFundBaby]

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/12/2/22810350/nba-draft-2023-mock-scoot-henderson-victor-wembanyama-emoni-bates

Personally, I'm meh on the direction this season takes. Developmental year for OG, Barnes & Banton, and rehabilitate the value of Siakam should be the goals. Whether they squeak in the play ins or draft in the lottery, is irrelevant, considering the weak 2022. No real standouts.

2023 though, the prospects have been garnering heavy praise for a while now. Guys like Wembanyama and Bates have been getting hyped for years now. Check out these excerpts.

The best long-term NBA prospect in the world is a 17-year-old center from France with a Rudy Gobert-like wingspan, shooting range out to the three-point line, and the upside to be one of the defining athletes of his generation. Victor Wembanyama was called “the world’s most intriguing NBA prospect” by ESPN, and he has both the production and the physical tools to back up the claim. There is almost no doubt Wembanyama would be the top pick in the upcoming 2022 draft if he was old enough to enter.

Wembanyama will be one of the tallest and longest players in the NBA from the moment he’s drafted at 7’3 with a 7’9 wingspan. 

This is the kind of talent you actually have to Tank for. Gobert with range and athletic?? I would blow this team up minus Barnes just to be in the running for this guy.

Henderson will have to spend two years with the Ignite, but he’s already making the case he’s the best long-term American prospect currently outside of the NBA.

The powerful 6’3 guard follows in the footsteps of Derrick Rose and John Wall as a lead ball handler defined by his strong frame and elite athleticism. Henderson has tremendous standstill burst that allows him to dust defenders off the dribble and force rotations. He’s strong enough to play through contact in the paint, and he can elevate high above the rim for a finish off whether he’s leaping off one foot or two. He’s a freight train in transition and is already showing signs of knowing how to manipulate an opposing defense in the half court.

Henderson has looked incredible since returning from a rib injury that delayed his start to the season. He put up 31 points and five assists against the Santa Cruz Warriors, 22 points and eight assists against the Stockton Kings, and 27 points and four assists one night later against the Kings’ affiliate once again. He absolutely looks like he belongs on a pro floor right now.

Then you have a guy like Scoot Henderson who's numbers in the G League blow out a guy like Jalen Green's, and he's not even eligible to get drafted this year.

Sharpe has tremendous physical tools for an NBA shooting guard at 6’4 with a reported 7-foot wingspan. He’s a slasher at his core, using a quick first step and developing upper body strength to create separation, play through contract, and finish at the rim. If he’s not quite in the same tier as Anthony Edwards and Jalen Green as an elite athlete, he’s damn close.

Best Canadian prospect since Wiggins is in this class. Like it's ridiculous, the current best NBA prospect (Wembanyama) best American prospect (Scoot) AND best Canadian prospect are all in that class

That isn't even mentioning Emoni Bates

You get Barnes + one of them, and it's a wrap, dynasty incoming

[Reeko]

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