Official Brandon Ingram Thread

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Why Masai and Bobby got Ingram.

Read on Twitter

What does this mean? How is this stat calculated? Ingram scoring on 56% TS this season (56% career as well) tells me he isn't a particularly efficient scorer. None of his raw shooting percentages are particularly impressive either, so I'd really like to know what this stat is measuring.

i think its because his long jumpers are efficient, his 3 ball is efficient and his ft% is efficient...which i guess gives him good shooting numbers

Sounds about right! I think people are questioning it because any stat released showing a raptor in positive light must be flawed.

[Raps in 4]

What does this mean? How is this stat calculated? Ingram scoring on 56% TS this season (56% career as well) tells me he isn't a particularly efficient scorer. None of his raw shooting percentages are particularly impressive either, so I'd really like to know what this stat is measuring.

i think its because his long jumpers are efficient, his 3 ball is efficient and his ft% is efficient...which i guess gives him good shooting numbers

Sounds about right! I think people are questioning it because any stat released showing a raptor in positive light must be flawed.

BI being "okay" at every range doesn't make him an efficient shooter. That stat isn't in any way useful.

[youngRAPZ]

i think its because his long jumpers are efficient, his 3 ball is efficient and his ft% is efficient...which i guess gives him good shooting numbers

Sounds about right! I think people are questioning it because any stat released showing a raptor in positive light must be flawed.

BI being "okay" at every range doesn't make him an efficient shooter. That stat isn't in any way useful.

Post the numbers that show he isn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Raps in 4]

Sounds about right! I think people are questioning it because any stat released showing a raptor in positive light must be flawed.

BI being "okay" at every range doesn't make him an efficient shooter. That stat isn't in any way useful.

Post the numbers that show he isn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where BI ranks:

TS%: 273rd (97th among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 146th
2P% >16 ft: 177th
2P% 10-16 ft: 59th
2P% 3-10 ft: 306th
2P% <3 ft: 134th

[Scase]

BI being "okay" at every range doesn't make him an efficient shooter. That stat isn't in any way useful.

Post the numbers that show he isn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where BI ranks:

TS%: 273rd (97th among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 146th
2P% >16 ft: 177th
2P% 10-16 ft: 59th
2P% 3-10 ft: 306th
2P% <3 ft: 134th

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Post the numbers that show he isn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where BI ranks:

TS%: 273rd (97th among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 146th
2P% >16 ft: 177th
2P% 10-16 ft: 59th
2P% 3-10 ft: 306th
2P% <3 ft: 134th

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

These aren't stats these are rankings. And when are those from, this year? All time? Why don't you take the numbers from the last time he wasn't forced to be the primary playmaker and essentially point guard in 20-21

FG:
47%
3P on 6.1 per game
38%
FT
89%

Those are great for a perimeter oriented player

[LoveMyRaps]

Ingram is definitely an elite mid-range shooter. There's no arguing against that.

[dballislife]

his midrange game only trails durant and demar, he shoots 36-38 from 3 on 5 attempts, and shoots 83-85 from line on 5 attempts

ingram is a pure perimeter scorer that will be especially useful in late clock and finishing the quarter possessions.....we have a good perimeter threat in ingram and a good inside threat in barrett

[pingpongrac]

I love how a sample-size of 18 games holds weight when it's a negative (in this case for Ingram), but 50+ good games from RJ (now up to 74 as a Raptor, which is basically a full season) means nothing because the sample size is too small and he has historically been worse. It's like players can't improve beyond their age 23 or 24 season.

The reality is Ingram was a slightly above average efficiency scorer (57.6 TS% and 101 TS+) on pretty high usage (28.7%) for his career in New Orleans. Last season, he was 65th in TS% among 166 20+ USG% players while he was 30th among 62 25+ USG% players (+/- 1 TS% from Jamal Murray, Sengun, Trae, DeRozan, Brown, RJ, Edwards, Franz, Maxey and Ja). 2022/23 was basically the same as he was 75th in TS% among 154 20+ USG% players while he was 35th among 70 25+ USG% players (+/- 1 TS% from Bam, George, Garland, LeBron, Brown, Randle, Klay and Trae). I have no clue how anyone can claim that a guy scoring 22-25 PPG on slightly above average efficiency is not an efficient scorer. Almost every player that was as or more efficient than Ingram in 22/23 and 23/24 on high usage is a perennial all-star or MVP candidate FFS lol.

[Raps in 4]

Where BI ranks:

TS%: 273rd (97th among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 146th
2P% >16 ft: 177th
2P% 10-16 ft: 59th
2P% 3-10 ft: 306th
2P% <3 ft: 134th

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

These aren't stats these are rankings. And when are those from, this year? All time? Why don't you take the numbers from the last time he wasn't forced to be the primary playmaker and essentially point guard in 20-21

FG:
47%
3P on 6.1 per game
38%
FT
89%

Those are great for a perimeter oriented player

My rankings were from this season. Let's check 20-21:

TS%: 177th (62nd among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 151st
2P% >16 ft: 49th
2P% 10-16 ft: 167th
2P% 3-10 ft: 233rd
2P% <3 ft: 213th

I fail to see how being a top-250 shooter at every range makes him a top-10 shooter according to that random stat posted above. There is absolutely nothing even remotely elite about BI's shooting. He's as average/below-average as they come, which is what his TS% has always indicated.

[RoteSchroder]

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

These aren't stats these are rankings. And when are those from, this year? All time? Why don't you take the numbers from the last time he wasn't forced to be the primary playmaker and essentially point guard in 20-21

FG:
47%
3P on 6.1 per game
38%
FT
89%

Those are great for a perimeter oriented player

My rankings were from this season. Let's check 20-21:

TS%: 177th (62nd among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 151st
2P% >16 ft: 49th
2P% 10-16 ft: 167th
2P% 3-10 ft: 233rd
2P% <3 ft: 213th

I fail to see how being a top-250 shooter at every range makes him a top-10 shooter according to that random stat posted above. There is absolutely nothing even remotely elite about BI's shooting. He's as average/below-average as they come, which is what his TS% has always indicated.

The TS% list with a usage > 20% includes: Serge Ibaka, Ben Simmons, Jordan Nwora, Udonis Haslem, Grant Riller, Montrezl Harrell, Jonas Valančiūnas, Chris Boucher, Frank Jackson, Kendrick Nunn, Khyri Thomas, etc. in the top 60

There are also several players (all-stars or superstars) close or ranked below him. Realistically, we’re looking at ~28th in the league among relevant players in 20-21, counting for games played, shooting volume and min/game. Would be slightly higher if you don’t count bigs.

[Raps in 4]

These aren't stats these are rankings. And when are those from, this year? All time? Why don't you take the numbers from the last time he wasn't forced to be the primary playmaker and essentially point guard in 20-21

FG:
47%
3P on 6.1 per game
38%
FT
89%

Those are great for a perimeter oriented player

My rankings were from this season. Let's check 20-21:

TS%: 177th (62nd among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 151st
2P% >16 ft: 49th
2P% 10-16 ft: 167th
2P% 3-10 ft: 233rd
2P% <3 ft: 213th

I fail to see how being a top-250 shooter at every range makes him a top-10 shooter according to that random stat posted above. There is absolutely nothing even remotely elite about BI's shooting. He's as average/below-average as they come, which is what his TS% has always indicated.

The TS% list with a usage > 20% includes: Serge Ibaka, Ben Simmons, Jordan Nwora, Udonis Haslem, Grant Riller, Montrezl Harrell, Jonas Valančiūnas, Chris Boucher, Frank Jackson, Kendrick Nunn, Khyri Thomas, etc. in the top 60

There are also several players (all-stars or superstars) close or ranked below him. Realistically, we’re looking at ~28th in the league among relevant players in 20-21, counting for games played, shooting volume and min/game. Would be slightly higher if you don’t count bigs.

Which is still not even close to elite. It's even less impressive when you consider that BI doesn't exert himself on defence.

[Scase]

I'm still waiting for someone to show how he's top 10 in anything, and whatever "overall shooting talent" actually means.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

These aren't stats these are rankings. And when are those from, this year? All time? Why don't you take the numbers from the last time he wasn't forced to be the primary playmaker and essentially point guard in 20-21

FG:
47%
3P on 6.1 per game
38%
FT
89%

Those are great for a perimeter oriented player

My rankings were from this season. Let's check 20-21:

TS%: 177th (62nd among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 151st
2P% >16 ft: 49th
2P% 10-16 ft: 167th
2P% 3-10 ft: 233rd
2P% <3 ft: 213th

I fail to see how being a top-250 shooter at every range makes him a top-10 shooter according to that random stat posted above. There is absolutely nothing even remotely elite about BI's shooting. He's as average/below-average as they come, which is what his TS% has always indicated.

The TS% list with a usage > 20% includes: Serge Ibaka, Ben Simmons, Jordan Nwora, Udonis Haslem, Grant Riller, Montrezl Harrell, Jonas Valančiūnas, Chris Boucher, Frank Jackson, Kendrick Nunn, Khyri Thomas, etc. in the top 60

There are also several players (all-stars or superstars) close or ranked below him. Realistically, we’re looking at ~28th in the league among relevant players in 20-21, counting for games played, shooting volume and min/game. Would be slightly higher if you don’t count bigs.

This is exactly the issue with using a ranking for this question.

[DreamTeam09]

Reggie Miller one day in the future "the Raptors are really building something here, Brandon Ingram, long athletic scorer, Scottie Barnes, long athletic, versatile. RJ strong 6'7, quickly shooting 3s Jakob. The Raptors got something here ladies and gentlemen" book it

Ingram is a big enough name and has the type of game to be a draw or legitimize things with US media.

[Raps in 4]

My rankings were from this season. Let's check 20-21:

TS%: 177th (62nd among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 151st
2P% >16 ft: 49th
2P% 10-16 ft: 167th
2P% 3-10 ft: 233rd
2P% <3 ft: 213th

I fail to see how being a top-250 shooter at every range makes him a top-10 shooter according to that random stat posted above. There is absolutely nothing even remotely elite about BI's shooting. He's as average/below-average as they come, which is what his TS% has always indicated.

The TS% list with a usage > 20% includes: Serge Ibaka, Ben Simmons, Jordan Nwora, Udonis Haslem, Grant Riller, Montrezl Harrell, Jonas Valančiūnas, Chris Boucher, Frank Jackson, Kendrick Nunn, Khyri Thomas, etc. in the top 60

There are also several players (all-stars or superstars) close or ranked below him. Realistically, we’re looking at ~28th in the league among relevant players in 20-21, counting for games played, shooting volume and min/game. Would be slightly higher if you don’t count bigs.

This is exactly the issue with using a ranking for this question.

What is the issue?

BI had a TS of 58.4% that year, 1.2% above league average.

Nothing about that is elite, yet you keep saying he's an elite shooter. You keep dismissing the evidence to the contrary, without providing any evidence in support of your claim.

[youngRAPZ]

Post the numbers that show he isn’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where BI ranks:

TS%: 273rd (97th among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 146th
2P% >16 ft: 177th
2P% 10-16 ft: 59th
2P% 3-10 ft: 306th
2P% <3 ft: 134th

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

I love how you like to run your mouth I don’t see any stats just rankings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Raps in 4]

Where BI ranks:

TS%: 273rd (97th among players with usage rate >20%)
3P%: 146th
2P% >16 ft: 177th
2P% 10-16 ft: 59th
2P% 3-10 ft: 306th
2P% <3 ft: 134th

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

I love how you like to run your mouth I don’t see any stats just rankings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's because the "stat" that I was asking for clarification on was just a ranking. It claimed that BI was the 8th most efficient shooter in the NBA. I was questioning how that's possible, given his rankings in individual shooting categories.

[youngRAPZ]

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

I love how you like to run your mouth I don’t see any stats just rankings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's because the "stat" that was was asking for clarification on was just a ranking. It claimed that BO was the 8th most efficient shooter in the NBA. I was questioning how that's possible, given his rankings in individual shooting categories.

That’s fine I wasn’t really mad at your post I was just asking for you to post the stats that show he is inefficient not rankings. My other reply wasn’t to you but the smug guy who claims you easily posted what I asked for when you didn’t. And then called me sensitive by claiming I’m getting in my feelings when he’s the one constantly crying when people call him out for his rather bad takes. He even has me on his ignore list yet wants to hide and reply. Coward Behaviour!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pingpongrac]

I love how his request was like you couldn't just easily pull basic efficiency stats

People get so in their feelings the second a player is on the raptors it's insane.

I love how you like to run your mouth I don’t see any stats just rankings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's because the "stat" that I was asking for clarification on was just a ranking. It claimed that BO was the 8th most efficient shooter in the NBA. I was questioning how that's possible, given his rankings in individual shooting categories.

Overall shooting talent ≠ efficiency though. Ingram takes a lot of tough and highly contested shots (as evidenced by an earlier post in this thread where he is in the +90th percentile in various one-on-one metrics while being in the 0 percentile in mid-range shot quality) yet he's still an above average efficiency player. The combination of his shot diet/abilities and efficiency is what ranks him so high in that metric. It's why you don't see many three-point shooters on that list with the highest 3PAr coming from Mitchell (.497) and Wemby (.470) then the next highest being Brunson, JJJ, Durant and LeBron in the 31-32% range. This is a ranking of players that take tough shots but still produce at a high level – not a ranking of which players are the most efficient.