Raptors Select Paskal Siakam 27th

[Psubs]

No idea why people here think Bobby Portis is good.

Some liked him before and he started hot so they stayed with him, then he went cold. Siakam could become like Portis with better defense.

[BismackonLebron]

Lots of anger in this thread. Lol. I think alot of us are just frustrated with Masai's annual draft reach that doesn't pan out. On the bright side he at least knows how to put together a winning team!

Huh? He didn't reach last year, and both players are good.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

[quickymgee]

Huh? He didn't reach last year, and both players are good.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

The difference between a reach and a good pick is whether the player becomes any good or not. Solomon didn't work out as the what, 46th pick? The other players it remains to be seen whether they were the right choice or not in the long term. Just because they didn't have as much of an impact as say a top ten pick doesn't mean they weren't the right choice at their draft position no matter what your draft express website and YouTube tells you.

[tms]

man, i wish the thread title would at least spell his first name correctly lol.

so disrespeckful prove em etc.

[Kabookalu]

Huh? He didn't reach last year, and both players are good.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

Wright isn't a reach. He was projected to go around the slot we drafted him at. Players free falling from their projected draft slot doesn't mean every team passing him reached for the players they eventually selected. Skal went from being picked around 10th-14th, to 28th, that doesn't mean every team that skipped out on Skal reached for their guys if that's where they were supposed to go.

[mademan]

Huh? He didn't reach last year, and both players are good.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

Why is Portis better than Delon?

[nbafan341]

did someone say reaching with solomon alabi who was a 50th pick that we traded for a future 2nd???

wright is better than portis. portis had more of an opporttunity


bruno over that jazz player that qas still on board was a reach but I dont mind it because I like high upside players and bruno has made a lot of progresss. no reasn why he cant contribute one day.

[Kabookalu]

So I've been watching more footage of Pascal, and honestly, is Chriss that much better of a prospect, if at all? Chriss might be the better athlete (I'm not entirely convinced), but Pascal is a freak athlete himself with a longer wingspan. Skill wise Chriss is a better shooter, and Pascal has a better feel for the game. What am I missing here? I still don't know too much about Pascal since I literally only heard about him on draft night, but everything I've watched so far is telling me we got a player with our 27th pick that's similar to one picked 8th overall.

[S.W.A.N]

Huh? He didn't reach last year, and both players are good.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

Everyone knows Bruno was a gamble. Everyone knows the history of that pick. We really wanted Tyler Ennis, but suns scooped him and tried to get a kings randoms from us. Masai heard that Bruno might not make it into second round, so he bit the bullet and took Bruno.

Other than that he hasn't taken fliers. Everyone has been pretty straight forward. Wright over Portis is not a reach at all. Several draft analytics sites had Delon as a lotto pick. People around here wanted Portis because he looked good and fit a need.Nothing wrong with that, but many of us preferred Wright and still do. That in no way makes the pick a reach.

Calling Pascal a reach is again very questionable. Just because mock drafts don't have him as first round pick doesn't mean he isn't one. Again analytic sites had Pascal ranked as potential lotto pick.


There definitely is a trend to Masai picks... Analytics and character.
How many guys in the NCAA had a PER over 30 last year? How many of them did we draft?

You can argue Pascal has inflated numbers because of lower competition, but when you look only at the high end opponents he faced this year he still put up good numbers. So that argument doesn't hold much value.

Fact is, Pascal got overlooked by many because of the school he went to. Heck how many of us really looked at Pascal before the draft and we all knew a good PF was on our want list. His name barely came up despite his excellent stats.

[vaff87]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

Why is Portis better than Delon?

He's not.

[thunderforce]

If our picks work out which they should and we can somehow keep BB , you have to like our chances to stop the Cavs . We can throw both BB and Pascal at LeBron , that could really mess with his head . Poeltl hopefully should be able to keep Kevin Love in check , in other words we will have options .

[JYD]

So I've been watching more footage of Pascal, and honestly, is Chriss that much better of a prospect, if at all? Chriss might be the better athlete (I'm not entirely convinced), but Pascal is a freak athlete himself with a longer wingspan. Skill wise Chriss is a better shooter, and Pascal has a better feel for the game. What am I missing here? I still don't know too much about Pascal since I literally only heard about him on draft night, but everything I've watched so far is telling me we got a player with our 27th pick that's similar to one picked 8th overall.

You're not missing anything. Chriss can't rebound first of all, or play interior defense. So right away as a 4 he's screwed.

He can only be a 3. Can he guard the 3? Maybe better than the 4, but he's still lacking in a lot of defensive fundamentals.

Does Chriss have the handle to create his own shot at the 3? No.

He's basically an athletic, 3 pt shooter, with bad ball IQ, who can't defend inside and isn't very good at shot creation. This may sound familiar to someone on our roster.

It's more reflective of how overrated Chriss is than how good I think Siakam is. Who I think looks solid because he can guard maybe even 2 positions, can rebound and defend inside well, and has a great motor. He can also pass a bit.

[CoachJReturns]

So I've been watching more footage of Pascal, and honestly, is Chriss that much better of a prospect, if at all? Chriss might be the better athlete (I'm not entirely convinced), but Pascal is a freak athlete himself with a longer wingspan. Skill wise Chriss is a better shooter, and Pascal has a better feel for the game. What am I missing here? I still don't know too much about Pascal since I literally only heard about him on draft night, but everything I've watched so far is telling me we got a player with our 27th pick that's similar to one picked 8th overall.

Age and shooting touch are everything in this case. Chriss is 19 and this guy is 22. One can shoot the 3 ball and the other looks comfortable to only about 15 feet.
Not knocking Siakam, but we should at least acknowledge the weaknesses as well as the strengths.

[team edward]

Huh? He didn't reach last year, and both players are good.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

Reaching on typically useless picks late in the draft. Who cares. If Bruno becomes even a remotely serviceable player for the main team it's a win.

[Patman]

Vegg you need to concede your faulty argument,


Your talk with sub likely took place during the Babcock era, and then yes we would have a better grasp then him and his staff.

Now, you may seem to forget Masai's roots.. He was a scout, and a well regarded one and continues to demonstrate he knows what he is doing.

Add in all the new ways to evaluate players, there is zero conceivable notion that any of us would ever have a better handle on players.

I can't speak on all teams, but I personally have never felt more confidence in the Raps ability to evaluate prospects in the history of the team.


Each time you have attempted to extend this argument of yours you are are digging a deeper (and borderline baiting, name calling) just accept that you are wrong and move on.

You have no basis to say I am wrong. I have accumulated data and assessed comments and opinions over the years and even though some GM's do a pretty good job, many don't. Usually, after a bunch of discussion the opinions that are left as consensus are very accurate. IMO more accurate than the average GM. What makes you think the type of minds that we have amassed on this board over the years is not capable of coming to an accurate consensus? To act like it's not plausible is just stupid.

I'm not wrong and you have no right to state it like it has any objectivity.

I have not baited anyone and the guy that was responding was rude before I ever spoke to him. He called me asinine and asked if I knew what the word consensus is like I was a freakin' moron. I may not have responded with perfect manners but I didn't start it.

This board has rarely reached a consensus on anything, much less who to draft. When we have a draft poll, the winning option usually has less than half the votes, many times much less. That's not a general agreement. Hell, most people here can't even stay in agreement with themselves. They love/hate (insert Raptor here) on a game to game basis.

The notion that crowd-sourcing GM decisions of a large sample size would lead to more success is absurd.

[Dr Positivity]

So I've been watching more footage of Pascal, and honestly, is Chriss that much better of a prospect, if at all? Chriss might be the better athlete (I'm not entirely convinced), but Pascal is a freak athlete himself with a longer wingspan. Skill wise Chriss is a better shooter, and Pascal has a better feel for the game. What am I missing here? I still don't know too much about Pascal since I literally only heard about him on draft night, but everything I've watched so far is telling me we got a player with our 27th pick that's similar to one picked 8th overall.

I think Chriss has a significant advantage in offensive skills. He is a 35% 3pt shooter (2.8 3PA/40) already and from a shot creation perspective while Siakam scored/shot a lot, I believe age and conference is critical when it comes to college scoring. Chriss being a high volume shot taker at 18 at Washington is a big difference than Siakam at 22 against true blue mid major competition in the WAC. Chriss compares himself to Rudy Gay and his total lack of interest in rebounding and awareness on defense could make him a SF in a PF's body or just a SF, especially now that he's on a team that just drafted a PF at 4th overall.

Siakam has longer wingspan (7'3.25 to 7'0.25), is a way better rebounder and apparently has much better motor and basketball IQ. Probably a lot more willing to bang, get rebounds and block shots. Chriss is likely a higher points per game player

[Lukeem]

So I've been watching more footage of Pascal, and honestly, is Chriss that much better of a prospect, if at all? Chriss might be the better athlete (I'm not entirely convinced), but Pascal is a freak athlete himself with a longer wingspan. Skill wise Chriss is a better shooter, and Pascal has a better feel for the game. What am I missing here? I still don't know too much about Pascal since I literally only heard about him on draft night, but everything I've watched so far is telling me we got a player with our 27th pick that's similar to one picked 8th overall.

I wasnt that big on Chriss but in my opinion the only significant difference between the two is age.
How much that matters depends on who you ask.

[load management]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

Reaching on typically useless picks late in the draft. Who cares. If Bruno becomes even a remotely serviceable player for the main team it's a win.

Meh I think Rodney Hood was the obvious pick over Bruno. Portis TBD, but it was, and is a position of need. I would have liked him on board, especially since we made the decision to throw COJO in to the mix because he's from Toronto.

[lolwut]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument

Fact is Masai hasn't been here very long but we know he reached really bad on Bruno and he had a hand in us drafting Solomon Alibi. Even Delon Wright was a bit of a reach with Portis still on the board. This year he reached on Pascal,so I'd say he's developing a history for reaching on draft picks in Toronto. But, hey don't let history get in the way of ignorance

Everyone knows Bruno was a gamble. Everyone knows the history of that pick. We really wanted Tyler Ennis, but suns scooped him and tried to get a kings randoms from us. Masai heard that Bruno might not make it into second round, so he bit the bullet and took Bruno.

Other than that he hasn't taken fliers. Everyone has been pretty straight forward. Wright over Portis is not a reach at all. Several draft analytics sites had Delon as a lotto pick. People around here wanted Portis because he looked good and fit a need.Nothing wrong with that, but many of us preferred Wright and still do. That in no way makes the pick a reach.

Calling Pascal a reach is again very questionable. Just because mock drafts don't have him as first round pick doesn't mean he isn't one. Again analytic sites had Pascal ranked as potential lotto pick.


There definitely is a trend to Masai picks... Analytics and character.
How many guys in the NCAA had a PER over 30 last year? How many of them did we draft?

You can argue Pascal has inflated numbers because of lower competition, but when you look only at the high end opponents he faced this year he still put up good numbers. So that argument doesn't hold much value.

Fact is, Pascal got overlooked by many because of the school he went to. Heck how many of us really looked at Pascal before the draft and we all knew a good PF was on our want list. His name barely came up despite his excellent stats.

And that's the difference between having a professional scouting department and scouting via Youtube clips.

How many people people on this forum would have drafted Norman Powell with the 46th pick last year? How many people even knew his name? Masai just out-drafted a bunch of armchair GMs right there.

And then those same people have the audacity to say that they are better decision makers than Masai? That they know more about talent evaluation than an NBA GM? Are you kidding me?

[vaff87]

One thing I've noticed in highlights, is that Siakam always seems to want to go to his right. I don't think I've seen him finish with his left hand.