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2023 Draft Discussion Part III

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#561 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Tue Apr 4, 2023 12:33 am

Dalek wrote:
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:
Dalek wrote:
I like Gradey but I wonder how different is he from Jett Howard. Not a huge difference in made threes especially since Howard played in 7 fewer games. Both have low freethrow rates, low assist rates. Gradey is a better rebounder and defender, but I don't know if he is better at self-creation. Howard had 77% of his threes assisted, while Dick 80%. I watched Howard a lot more than Dick, and he has bad shot selection, but he has a lot of shot versatility and a great handle for his size.

It is not that I wouldn't have Gradey ahead of Jett, but I wonder why Gradey gets so much high lotto hype while Jett is at times around 20. To me, they should be pretty close to each other, but I could be wrong about them.


Gradey was an afterthought in Kansas' offense for the most part. There were games they didn't even look his way as it was a group of veteran college players looking to get theirs first many games. If Gradey had played on another team he would have had a lot more opportunities to have the ball in his hands and put it on the floor.

He's a tough kid who fights for everything on the court and is superior to Howard in almost every regard. Howard is soft. Gradey is a better shooter, better cutter, has shown much more ability running in transition and driving to the rim and finishing. He has just as much shot versatility and can score in many other ways than simply catching and shooting even though that was primarily what was asked of him. He has a high bball IQ when it comes to off ball motion and helping his teammates find an outlet.

At the end of the day he's a superior shooter, shows more burgeoning ability to drive and finish, is a better rebounder, defender, and scraps and shows more intensity and competitiveness on both ends of the floor. There is no comparison.


I took a lot of competitiveness, toughness and scrappiness from your response. Those are tough things to quantify, but I will give it to you because so many comment about Gradey Dick's intangibles.

Both these guys played on veteran teams so I don't think either was catered to much - Michigan was all about Hunter Dickinson. My point is that neither looks like a primary option in the NBA and will likely both be shooting threes created for them. I do see both having similar shot-creation upside. Both have a bit of shake but the dribble is to get to a jumpshot rather than to draw a foul or finish at the rim.

Long-term upside, I just don't see anything that equate either as big time athletes but both have good size.

Maybe Dick's IQ is off the charts, but Howard has his NBA dad/coach which makes a difference as far a predicator of future NBA success. Like I mentioned, I do have Gradey ahead of Jett today, but I am not as sure down the line in a couple years after NBA coaching. It really depends on where these guys end up.

Personally I'd love to see Gradey Dick end up on Utah and Jett Howard on Miami. Those would be ideal places for both.


Gradey is the better athlete between them. I really don't like Jett Howard I think everyone knows that :lol:

If I hadn't seen Jett get blown by like a turnstile so often on defense and he didn't look like the wind could make him fall over constantly I'd be higher on him. I hate when people are regarded highly based on their last name. I said it before but if he weren't Juwan's son nobody would be talking about him as a mid to late lottery pick. It's the truth.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#562 » by Kevin Willis » Tue Apr 4, 2023 1:08 am

Dalek wrote:
REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:
Dalek wrote:
I like Gradey but I wonder how different is he from Jett Howard. Not a huge difference in made threes especially since Howard played in 7 fewer games. Both have low freethrow rates, low assist rates. Gradey is a better rebounder and defender, but I don't know if he is better at self-creation. Howard had 77% of his threes assisted, while Dick 80%. I watched Howard a lot more than Dick, and he has bad shot selection, but he has a lot of shot versatility and a great handle for his size.

It is not that I wouldn't have Gradey ahead of Jett, but I wonder why Gradey gets so much high lotto hype while Jett is at times around 20. To me, they should be pretty close to each other, but I could be wrong about them.


Gradey was an afterthought in Kansas' offense for the most part. There were games they didn't even look his way as it was a group of veteran college players looking to get theirs first many games. If Gradey had played on another team he would have had a lot more opportunities to have the ball in his hands and put it on the floor.

He's a tough kid who fights for everything on the court and is superior to Howard in almost every regard. Howard is soft. Gradey is a better shooter, better cutter, has shown much more ability running in transition and driving to the rim and finishing. He has just as much shot versatility and can score in many other ways than simply catching and shooting even though that was primarily what was asked of him. He has a high bball IQ when it comes to off ball motion and helping his teammates find an outlet.

At the end of the day he's a superior shooter, shows more burgeoning ability to drive and finish, is a better rebounder, defender, and scraps and shows more intensity and competitiveness on both ends of the floor. There is no comparison.


I took a lot of competitiveness, toughness and scrappiness from your response. Those are tough things to quantify, but I will give it to you because so many comment about Gradey Dick's intangibles.

Both these guys played on veteran teams so I don't think either was catered to much - Michigan was all about Hunter Dickinson. My point is that neither looks like a primary option in the NBA and will likely both be shooting threes created for them. I do see both having similar shot-creation upside. Both have a bit of shake but the dribble is to get to a jumpshot rather than to draw a foul or finish at the rim.

Long-term upside, I just don't see anything that equate either as big time athletes but both have good size.

Maybe Dick's IQ is off the charts, but Howard has his NBA dad/coach which makes a difference as far a predicator of future NBA success. Like I mentioned, I do have Gradey ahead of Jett today, but I am not as sure down the line in a couple years after NBA coaching. It really depends on where these guys end up.

Personally I'd love to see Gradey Dick end up on Utah and Jett Howard on Miami. Those would be ideal places for both.


Howard and Dick are different types of players. Howard will be more of a shooter that can score / create. Dick is more of a shooter that can grind. Dick will have more of the hustle stats - rebound, block and steals. Also Dick is more athletic.

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Howard doesn't really elevate as much

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#563 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Apr 4, 2023 2:11 am

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#564 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Apr 4, 2023 3:48 am

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#565 » by Dalek » Tue Apr 4, 2023 4:40 am

I can see the elevation difference between Howard and Dick. I think Howard is ten pounds heavier which might impact the springiness. The weight difference will impact Dick in the NBA because he looks thin even on a college court.

It is a weird draft but I don't think Gradey Dick should not be a top ten pick because there is a clear ceiling to his play.

He is like a fourth option like Howard would be. The defense is scrappy but I don't think he is a stopper and his offense is not advanced enough to be a three level scorer. I just wonder if Dick and Howard are going to be Luke Kennard level in the NBA.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#566 » by Psubs » Tue Apr 4, 2023 5:23 am

Dalek wrote:I can see the elevation difference between Howard and Dick. I think Howard is ten pounds heavier which might impact the springiness. The weight difference will impact Dick in the NBA because he looks thin even on a college court.

It is a weird draft but I don't think Gradey Dick should not be a top ten pick because there is a clear ceiling to his play.

He is like a fourth option like Howard would be. The defense is scrappy but I don't think he is a stopper and his offense is not advanced enough to be a three level scorer. I just wonder if Dick and Howard are going to be Luke Kennard level in the NBA.


Can't Gradey be like a taller Tyler Herro? What about Reggie Miller?
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#567 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Tue Apr 4, 2023 6:04 am

Hawkins had some really bad moments in the game last night... some bad turnovers, missed dunk. The shooting was nice but I'm looking for the little things.

It'll be interesting to see if Sanogo will be able to establish deep post position against NBA bodies because he is automatic in the paint. There are some big men who have very high FG% because of putbacks and lobs but Sanogo has such incredible touch that he can actually generate extremely efficient offense down low in other ways. Sanogo looks like he belongs in the NBA as a rotational big who can provide solid minutes and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a solid PER.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#568 » by BoyzNTheHood » Tue Apr 4, 2023 10:17 am

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deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#569 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Tue Apr 4, 2023 12:14 pm

Cason
Bufkin
Hawkins
Hood Schfino
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#570 » by Psubs » Tue Apr 4, 2023 12:15 pm

REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Hawkins had some really bad moments in the game last night... some bad turnovers, missed dunk. The shooting was nice but I'm looking for the little things.

It'll be interesting to see if Sanogo will be able to establish deep post position against NBA bodies because he is automatic in the paint. There are some big men who have very high FG% because of putbacks and lobs but Sanogo has such incredible touch that he can actually generate extremely efficient offense down low in other ways. Sanogo looks like he belongs in the NBA as a rotational big who can provide solid minutes and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a solid PER.


Sounds like Alperen Sengun without the passing skills.
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Cason Wallace - underrated prospect for this years draft 

Post#571 » by TGM » Tue Apr 4, 2023 12:49 pm

Anyone else watch Cason play. He is ranked late teens in most mocks right now, but I have a feeling he shoots up into lottery territory. Perfect fit for the Raptors. Large PG, who can defend and is steady as they come. This guy will destroy in the NBA. Could be that low risk high reward player. The team's drafting in front of us, I doubt will take the guy as most are set at point. However, assuming season ended today there are easily 4-5 teams behind us that will likely nab this guy.



merging into the draft prospect thread.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#572 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Apr 4, 2023 12:50 pm

Hawkins does have some nice footwork. That will go along way for him in the NBA getting his shot off. Down 5 with 5 minutes to go, he hit that dagger. Needs some size
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#573 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Apr 4, 2023 1:12 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:Howard and Dick are different types of players. Howard will be more of a shooter that can score / create. Dick is more of a shooter that can grind. Dick will have more of the hustle stats - rebound, block and steals. Also Dick is more athletic.


I like this description. Dick seems closer to a Max Strus type player but a bit bouncier. Howard doesn't seem like much of a prospect to me at all, but will likely bounce around the league as a player's son. No one thinks, 'let's draft Max Strus with a lottery pick' because he went undrafted, but he's a shooter that has proven he can play high level playoff basketball.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#574 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue Apr 4, 2023 1:45 pm

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10. Dallas Mavericks: Cam Whitmore (Villanova, SF, Freshman)

Suddenly five games under .500, the Mavericks may wind up keeping their pick that would otherwise go to the New York Knicks if it's No. 11 or later. A best-player-available search could lead to Whitmore. He'll enter the league with the type of power, explosiveness and shot-making for instant transition offense, slashing, finish and streak shooting.

11. Oklahoma City Thunder: Gradey Dick (Kansas, SF, Freshman)

With plenty of ball-handlers, the Thunder could target Dick's shooting and overall efficient spot-up scoring. While there is still hope for more off-the-dribble development, he'd play to his strengths in Oklahoma City with his catch-and-shoot game, timely drives and cuts off Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Josh Giddey and Jalen Williams.

12. Orlando Magic (via Bulls): Keyonte George (Baylor, SG, Freshman)

With a roster of young players, Orlando could attempt to package its two lottery picks and move closer to the top five. The Magic could also see more value with George this late. They'd have to look past the inefficient percentages for his scoring firepower and shooting versatility.

13. Utah Jazz (via Timberwolves): Nick Smith Jr. (Arkansas, SG, Freshman)

Teams may downgrade Smith after learning that he's more likely a 185-pound 2-guard than a 6'5" lead ball-handler. Despite the lack of playmaking, his shot-making, touch shots and finishes still create enough scoring versatility/potential to interest lottery teams.

14. Toronto Raptors: Kobe Bufkin (Michigan, PG/SG, Freshman)

Scouts started to take Bufkin seriously as the off-the-dribble shooting, crafty finishing and two-way playmaking consistently popped over the last few months. He was far more efficient than some of the projected one-and-done lottery guards, and considering he's still 19 years old, it's not out of the question teams start thinking about Bufkin as an option earlier than mid-first-round
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#575 » by God Squad » Tue Apr 4, 2023 2:30 pm

This late season run has me down bad. All the prospects I want are likely gone. Might as well swing for the fences and go with upside, and potential fit with Scottie.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#576 » by DG88 » Tue Apr 4, 2023 2:33 pm

I'd be down for Kobe Bufkin
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Re: Cason Wallace - underrated prospect for this years draft 

Post#577 » by God Squad » Tue Apr 4, 2023 2:33 pm

Old news.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#578 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Tue Apr 4, 2023 3:31 pm

Wow Whitmore at 10. We could use a player as violent as him on our team.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#579 » by UnbelievablyRAW » Tue Apr 4, 2023 3:58 pm

DG88 wrote:I'd be down for Kobe Bufkin


In the second half of his 33 games played he averaged 15/5/4 on 48/39/89. Positive DBPM and OBPM and younger than Hawkins and C. Jones
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part III 

Post#580 » by ItsDanger » Tue Apr 4, 2023 4:02 pm

REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Hawkins had some really bad moments in the game last night... some bad turnovers, missed dunk. The shooting was nice but I'm looking for the little things.

It'll be interesting to see if Sanogo will be able to establish deep post position against NBA bodies because he is automatic in the paint. There are some big men who have very high FG% because of putbacks and lobs but Sanogo has such incredible touch that he can actually generate extremely efficient offense down low in other ways. Sanogo looks like he belongs in the NBA as a rotational big who can provide solid minutes and I wouldn't be surprised if he had a solid PER.

Sanogo is a C in a PF body, he'd have a tough time in NBA. He doesn't have any clear advantage and elite help defense in NBA would create problems.
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