2021-22 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V2.0

[Madhouse]

Nice job cherry picking your drafts. 2021 may turn out to be the best/deepest draft of all time. 2003 had four HOFers at the top, and then not much. I think a team would trade TJ Ford for OG.

But even then, GSW would trade JK for OG in a heartbeat. Orlando and OKC don't seem to care about winning, so they probably wouldn't trade Wagner or Giddey. But I would. OG's only 24 years old. Perfect complement to SGA and Dort.

Kuminga for OG?

I'm not too sure if they would do it. Kuminga has the higher ceiling.

Sure, but Warriors are in win-now mode. OG (who's still relatively young) is the type of player that would really help the Dubs this season.

If they want to maximize the Curry window, yes.

[billy_hoyle]

OG has more value than that.

3 & D wing, young, great attitude and amazing contract locked up for the next few years. Hes worth more than just an 8th pick in this draft

Personally, I think that's about the right value (~8th pick).

You're not getting a top 5 pick. Look at this past draft.
Would the Cavs, Raps or, Pistons trade Mobley, Barnes or Cade for him. Absolutely not.

Would Franz Wagner be traded for OG, maybe, but Orlando probably doesn't do that trade, would Golden State for Kuminga? Maybe, but probably not. So, the 5 -10 range last year was too high, but that was a strong draft. We don't actually know how good this draft class is, and won't know until they play.

In this draft, I don't think you get Chet, Smith, Ivey, Banchero. I can see a team trading Sharpe, or Mathurin for OG.

From our perspective, those two are both possible primary shot creators, so if they pass the Masai sniff test, then ya...maybe we make that trade. And maybe the Pelicans or trailblazers want the sure thing elite 3+D wing .

Heres all the the recent 8th picks. OG on his contract is def worth a lot more than an 8th overall.

2021 Franz Wagner
2020 Obi Toppin
2019 Jaxson Hayes, Texas – New Orleans Pelicans
2018 Collin Sexton, Alabama – Cleveland Cavaliers
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers

That's guys who were picked at 8th, not who is available 'around' 8th. The 5-10th pick has a wide range of outcomes, and provides the value of whomever 'could potentially' be selected there.

Like the raps picked Barnes 4th, over the presumptive 4th best player in Suggs. So, is the 4th pick worth Suggs or Barnes... obviously Barnes right? You need to draft well. The raps chose the right player. In your analysis, most teams woulda selected Suggs, but that wasn't the value of the 4th pick...it was actually Barnes (or Suggs, or Kuminga...etc).

Here's who were in the discussion, and if you scouted well, who was available in that 5-10 range... I've even included mostly guys closer to 10th overall just to show you the talent available. Every year there are guys at OGs level (or much better) getting picked in this range...

2021: ? Discussed
2020: 11th Devin Vassell, 12th Haliburton
2019: 11th Can Johnson, 13th Herro
2018: 10th,12th Bridges, 11th Shai
2017: 13th Mitchell, 14th Bam
2016: 7th Jamal Murray, 11th Sabonis
2015: 11th Turner, 13th Booker
2014: 7th Randle, 13th Lavine
2013: 10th McCollum, 15th Giannis
2012: 6th Lillard, 9th Drummond
2011: 9th Kemba, 11th Klay
2010: 9th Gordan Hayward and 10th Paul George

Your analysis of looking at who was picked at 8th is just very flawed.

[Sticks]

Personally, I think that's about the right value (~8th pick).

You're not getting a top 5 pick. Look at this past draft.
Would the Cavs, Raps or, Pistons trade Mobley, Barnes or Cade for him. Absolutely not.

Would Franz Wagner be traded for OG, maybe, but Orlando probably doesn't do that trade, would Golden State for Kuminga? Maybe, but probably not. So, the 5 -10 range last year was too high, but that was a strong draft. We don't actually know how good this draft class is, and won't know until they play.

In this draft, I don't think you get Chet, Smith, Ivey, Banchero. I can see a team trading Sharpe, or Mathurin for OG.

From our perspective, those two are both possible primary shot creators, so if they pass the Masai sniff test, then ya...maybe we make that trade. And maybe the Pelicans or trailblazers want the sure thing elite 3+D wing .

Heres all the the recent 8th picks. OG on his contract is def worth a lot more than an 8th overall.

2021 Franz Wagner
2020 Obi Toppin
2019 Jaxson Hayes, Texas – New Orleans Pelicans
2018 Collin Sexton, Alabama – Cleveland Cavaliers
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers

That's guys who were picked at 8th, not who is available 'around' 8th. The 5-10th pick has a wide range of outcomes, and provides the value of whomever 'could potentially' be selected there.

Like the raps picked Barnes 4th, over the presumptive 4th best player in Suggs. So, is the 4th pick worth Suggs or Barnes... obviously Barnes right? You need to draft well. The raps chose the right player. In your analysis, most teams woulda selected Suggs, but that wasn't the value of the 4th pick...it was actually Barnes (or Suggs, or Kuminga...etc).

Here's who were in the discussion, and if you scouted well, who was available in that 5-10 range... I've even included mostly guys closer to 10th overall just to show you the talent available. Every year there are guys at OGs level (or much better) getting picked in this range...

2021: ? Discussed
2020: 11th Devin Vassell, 12th Haliburton
2019: 11th Can Johnson, 13th Herro
2018: 10th,12th Bridges, 11th Shai
2017: 13th Mitchell, 14th Bam
2016: 7th Jamal Murray, 11th Sabonis
2015: 11th Turner, 13th Booker
2014: 7th Randle, 13th Lavine
2013: 10th McCollum, 15th Giannis
2012: 6th Lillard, 9th Drummond
2011: 9th Kemba, 11th Klay
2010: 9th Gordan Hayward and 10th Paul George

Your analysis of looking at who was picked at 8th is just very flawed.

We know there are gems to be found all over the draft.

The point is, finding a player as good or better than OG is very hard. Sure there are good picks to be found all over but % chance of picking the gems is not worth giving up a talent like OG on the contract he is on.

Teams make trades for a few select reasons.

1.) Get better. Do we get better by trading OG for the 8th pick? Nope.
2.)cut salary. Do we need to cut salary? Nope, unless we have a superstar that's dying to sign with the raps and we need to clear room for. Even then we can get more value than the 8th.
3.) Look to the future. Raps are not in rebuild mode so we dont need to trade proven talent on a great contract for a future 1st that will take years to develop.

I'd trade FVV and/or GTJ before considering to traxe OG.

Again, hes 24 can shoot the 3 well and can guard 1 to 5 AND is locked up on a good contract

[Tripod]

Personally, I think that's about the right value (~8th pick).

You're not getting a top 5 pick. Look at this past draft.
Would the Cavs, Raps or, Pistons trade Mobley, Barnes or Cade for him. Absolutely not.

Would Franz Wagner be traded for OG, maybe, but Orlando probably doesn't do that trade, would Golden State for Kuminga? Maybe, but probably not. So, the 5 -10 range last year was too high, but that was a strong draft. We don't actually know how good this draft class is, and won't know until they play.

In this draft, I don't think you get Chet, Smith, Ivey, Banchero. I can see a team trading Sharpe, or Mathurin for OG.

From our perspective, those two are both possible primary shot creators, so if they pass the Masai sniff test, then ya...maybe we make that trade. And maybe the Pelicans or trailblazers want the sure thing elite 3+D wing .

Heres all the the recent 8th picks. OG on his contract is def worth a lot more than an 8th overall.

2021 Franz Wagner
2020 Obi Toppin
2019 Jaxson Hayes, Texas – New Orleans Pelicans
2018 Collin Sexton, Alabama – Cleveland Cavaliers
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers

That's guys who were picked at 8th, not who is available 'around' 8th. The 5-10th pick has a wide range of outcomes, and provides the value of whomever 'could potentially' be selected there.

Like the raps picked Barnes 4th, over the presumptive 4th best player in Suggs. So, is the 4th pick worth Suggs or Barnes... obviously Barnes right? You need to draft well. The raps chose the right player. In your analysis, most teams woulda selected Suggs, but that wasn't the value of the 4th pick...it was actually Barnes (or Suggs, or Kuminga...etc).

Here's who were in the discussion, and if you scouted well, who was available in that 5-10 range... I've even included mostly guys closer to 10th overall just to show you the talent available. Every year there are guys at OGs level (or much better) getting picked in this range...

2021: ? Discussed
2020: 11th Devin Vassell, 12th Haliburton
2019: 11th Can Johnson, 13th Herro
2018: 10th,12th Bridges, 11th Shai
2017: 13th Mitchell, 14th Bam
2016: 7th Jamal Murray, 11th Sabonis
2015: 11th Turner, 13th Booker
2014: 7th Randle, 13th Lavine
2013: 10th McCollum, 15th Giannis
2012: 6th Lillard, 9th Drummond
2011: 9th Kemba, 11th Klay
2010: 9th Gordan Hayward and 10th Paul George

Your analysis of looking at who was picked at 8th is just very flawed.

And you are assuming that the Raps pick the right guy at the right pick and no one else does. What if the Raps pick the wrong guy? Happened before. Happens to teams every year.

It just goes back to the fact that they are trying to win now. You don't trade OG for a pick who likely helps in a few years.

[HangTime]

I feel like we offer up pick #33 for 2 lower 2nds. Then we pick project and trade the other pick for for a future pick.

SAC - 37,49
MIN - 41,48,51
CHA- 42, 44
POR - 36, 59

[C-R-E-A-M-]

if Pacers want to bring OG home so bad

Turner and Duarte for OG and fillers

[billy_hoyle]

Heres all the the recent 8th picks. OG on his contract is def worth a lot more than an 8th overall.

2021 Franz Wagner
2020 Obi Toppin
2019 Jaxson Hayes, Texas – New Orleans Pelicans
2018 Collin Sexton, Alabama – Cleveland Cavaliers
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers

That's guys who were picked at 8th, not who is available 'around' 8th. The 5-10th pick has a wide range of outcomes, and provides the value of whomever 'could potentially' be selected there.

Like the raps picked Barnes 4th, over the presumptive 4th best player in Suggs. So, is the 4th pick worth Suggs or Barnes... obviously Barnes right? You need to draft well. The raps chose the right player. In your analysis, most teams woulda selected Suggs, but that wasn't the value of the 4th pick...it was actually Barnes (or Suggs, or Kuminga...etc).

Here's who were in the discussion, and if you scouted well, who was available in that 5-10 range... I've even included mostly guys closer to 10th overall just to show you the talent available. Every year there are guys at OGs level (or much better) getting picked in this range...

2021: ? Discussed
2020: 11th Devin Vassell, 12th Haliburton
2019: 11th Can Johnson, 13th Herro
2018: 10th,12th Bridges, 11th Shai
2017: 13th Mitchell, 14th Bam
2016: 7th Jamal Murray, 11th Sabonis
2015: 11th Turner, 13th Booker
2014: 7th Randle, 13th Lavine
2013: 10th McCollum, 15th Giannis
2012: 6th Lillard, 9th Drummond
2011: 9th Kemba, 11th Klay
2010: 9th Gordan Hayward and 10th Paul George

Your analysis of looking at who was picked at 8th is just very flawed.

We know there are gems to be found all over the draft.

The point is, finding a player as good or better than OG is very hard. Sure there are good picks to be found all over but % chance of picking the gems is not worth giving up a talent like OG on the contract he is on.

Teams make trades for a few select reasons.

1.) Get better. Do we get better by trading OG for the 8th pick? Nope.
2.)cut salary. Do we need to cut salary? Nope, unless we have a superstar that's dying to sign with the raps and we need to clear room for. Even then we can get more value than the 8th.
3.) Look to the future. Raps are not in rebuild mode so we dont need to trade proven talent on a great contract for a future 1st that will take years to develop.

I'd trade FVV and/or GTJ before considering to traxe OG.

Again, hes 24 can shoot the 3 well and can guard 1 to 5 AND is locked up on a good contract

I 100% refute that it's hard to find a gem. It's not, as shown by my examples.... That's precisely my point. There are usually MVP caliber players picked in the 5-10 range. Lillard, Giannis, Kawhi, Booker, Mitchell these are 1st team all NBA players.

That's like me saying the 1st pick is useless because the Clippers picked Olowakandi over Vince. The Clippers should have picked VINCE, and everybody knew it right away, literally in summer league that year. Scout better!

Do I think one of AJ Griffin, Jalen Duren, Benedict Mathurin, Shadeon Sharpe, Ty Ty Washington, Tari Eason, Johnny Davis, Sochan or Keegan Murry (projected back half of the lottery) will be better than OG?

I'd put money it.

I'd bet after next year there will be a player selected after 5 that you would 100% trade OG for. I'd also guess there will be a few others that you would seriously consider trading OG for ( Wagner, Kuminga types). Then a few others that you wouldn't consider.

I think Masai/Webster/Tolzman would be able to identify the premier talent out of this group (as they have historically done time and time again).

[Kingsway_fan]

if Pacers want to bring OG home so bad

Turner and Duarte for OG and fillers

Hell no. We have precious....

Massai has some tough decisions next year... I would still like to upgrade the backcourt.... replacing fred or Trent with a superstar...

[Madhouse]

if Pacers want to bring OG home so bad

Turner and Duarte for OG and fillers

Haliburton for OG

[Morris_Shatford]

What's the value for OG if he gets trade for a pick straight up? would it be around 10th pick of the draft? i guess it also depends on the strength of the draft class

Let say the Pacers end up with 8th pick this year, is OG for 8th pick too rich or too cheap? Draft maybe Sharpe with that pick

Given OGs contact Vs. performance and the remaining length on the deal I think they could likely do very well if they wanted to flip him for ballast + a single digit pick.

However, I don't think they would move one of their better defenders and one of their better shooters from range for a draft pick given how unexpectedly well the season went. If the plan is to move off OG and not one of the two core guys who expire next summer I would imagine it would be OG + Assets for a positional balance upgrade rather than OG for a youth package.

But who knows?

[Morris_Shatford]

Tshiebwe I haven't seen enough of and he's probably too slow for our defensive style, but he is an all-time rebounder and we do sometimes struggle at that when Birch isn't out there.

Tshiebwe is a guy I always tend to come back to.

He is elite rebounder and an absolute and utter pest on defense.
The issue is I am not confident he can defend out to the line nor do I have any hope you are going to have him develop a 3PT shot.

Which limits his ability to play in all situations in the current NBA;
He essentially becomes that niche big big guy (255lbs) that you can play situationally.

With all that said, he is a really really good rebounder in the paint and while someone invoked the dreaded Joe Dorsey comparison, I wouldn't be upset with the pick because he his intensity on defense really would fit in with what this team brings and who knows what you can develop?

[OhCanada1091]

Has Leonard Miller been discussed on this board yet? 6'11 guard out of Fort Erie. Had a 8 inch growth spurt over the least year or two. He should be draft eligible and said he is considering entering. Might be the reason we traded down.

[Ell Curry]

Tshiebwe I haven't seen enough of and he's probably too slow for our defensive style, but he is an all-time rebounder and we do sometimes struggle at that when Birch isn't out there.

Tshiebwe is a guy I always tend to come back to.

He is elite rebounder and an absolute and utter pest on defense.
The issue is I am not confident he can defend out to the line nor do I have any hope you are going to have him develop a 3PT shot.

Which limits his ability to play in all situations in the current NBA;
He essentially becomes that niche big big guy (255lbs) that you can play situationally.

With all that said, he is a really really good rebounder in the paint and while someone invoked the dreaded Joe Dorsey comparison, I wouldn't be upset with the pick because he his intensity on defense really would fit in with what this team brings and who knows what you can develop?

Undrafted, sure. I just don't think we'd look at a slow big anymore with a real pick like #33.

[Psubs]

Has Leonard Miller been discussed on this board yet? 6'11 guard out of Fort Erie. Had a 8 inch growth spurt over the least year or two. He should be draft eligible and said he is considering entering. Might be the reason we traded down.

Yes, last page. One poster said that he watched him play and he looks super raw.

[OhCanada1091]

Tshiebwe I haven't seen enough of and he's probably too slow for our defensive style, but he is an all-time rebounder and we do sometimes struggle at that when Birch isn't out there.

Tshiebwe is a guy I always tend to come back to.

He is elite rebounder and an absolute and utter pest on defense.
The issue is I am not confident he can defend out to the line nor do I have any hope you are going to have him develop a 3PT shot.

Which limits his ability to play in all situations in the current NBA;
He essentially becomes that niche big big guy (255lbs) that you can play situationally.

With all that said, he is a really really good rebounder in the paint and while someone invoked the dreaded Joe Dorsey comparison, I wouldn't be upset with the pick because he his intensity on defense really would fit in with what this team brings and who knows what you can develop?

Undrafted, sure. I just don't think we'd look at a slow big anymore with a real pick like #33.

Leonard Miller
Ismael Kamagate
Jabari Walker
Orlando Robinson
Christian Koloko (also from Cameroon)
Leonard Okeke
Yoan Makoundou

[Ell Curry]

Has Leonard Miller been discussed on this board yet? 6'11 guard out of Fort Erie. Had a 8 inch growth spurt over the least year or two. He should be draft eligible and said he is considering entering. Might be the reason we traded down.

Yes, last page. One poster said that he watched him play and he looks super raw.

Watch on YouTube

This is pretty damn promising looking to me.

[OhCanada1091]

Has Leonard Miller been discussed on this board yet? 6'11 guard out of Fort Erie. Had a 8 inch growth spurt over the least year or two. He should be draft eligible and said he is considering entering. Might be the reason we traded down.

Yes, last page. One poster said that he watched him play and he looks super raw.

Watch on YouTube

This is pretty damn promising looking to me.

Yeah if he enters they wont let him come around to Toronto. Too bad as well because he would be good here.

Leonard Miller will be a 1st round pick for sure. Just too much upside there and despite clearly being talented he hasn't quite received the same elite development as someone like Jayson Tatum. By that time these Team USA guys are ready to go to college they have won three gold medals played in multiple tournaments etc. This dudes fresh off growing a foot taller and everything he used to have to do as a smaller guard is now very easy at 6'9. Imagine when he's learning from the best in the world. His habits aren't as worked into his game yet. Blank canvass.

Saw an interview where his coach is praising how responsive he is to his coaching. You get this guy on a team that develops young players like Memphis, Indiana, OKC or San Antonio he could become a very good player. Those 4 teams have 12 picks in the top 35. Orlando has picks 31 and 35 and look at their draft history. Isaac, Okeke, Wagner. They have been looking for 6'9 versatile players for years. So theres no way he passes all those picks, trades being made or whatever after that performance at Hoop Summit.

[Ell Curry]

Yes, last page. One poster said that he watched him play and he looks super raw.

Watch on YouTube

This is pretty damn promising looking to me.

Yeah if he enters they wont let him come around to Toronto. Too bad as well because he would be good here.

Leonard Miller will be a 1st round pick for sure. Just too much upside there and despite clearly being talented he hasn't quite received the same elite development as someone like Jayson Tatum. By that time these Team USA guys are ready to go to college they have won three gold medals played in multiple tournaments etc. This dudes fresh off growing a foot taller and everything he used to have to do as a smaller guard is now very easy at 6'9. Imagine when he's learning from the best in the world. His habits aren't as worked into his game yet. Blank canvass.

Saw an interview where his coach is praising how responsive he is to his coaching. You get this guy on a team that develops young players like Memphis, Indiana, OKC or San Antonio he could become a very good player. Those 4 teams have 12 picks in the top 35. Orlando has picks 31 and 35 and look at their draft history. Isaac, Okeke, Wagner. They have been looking for 6'9 versatile players for years. So theres no way he passes all those picks, trades being made or whatever after that performance at Hoop Summit.

Yeah, totally agree with those teams going for him, though Indiana seem to draft more conservatively? They might be the NBA team that most needs a 6'9 wing though so it makes sense.

[Los_29]

if Pacers want to bring OG home so bad

Turner and Duarte for OG and fillers

I think Masai sees OG as the better asset. Can’t see them abandoning their plan after having so much success with it.

[Spida888]

The FO would likely be reluctant to trade OG unless it’s for an all star level type of player (OG + picks) or some top level prospect (Kuminga).

The uncertainty of Fred and Gary contracts makes it even less likely.