Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[WaltFrazier]

Not only did Masai completely misread what direction the league was going in, he completely misunderstood what makes small ball so effective.

Take away the Warriors and these are the recent champions. Warriors success with small ball is the anomaly, not where the rest of the league was going in.

Denver - huge team.
Bucks - huge team.
Lakers - huge team.
Raptors - huge team.
Cavs - relatively big team.
Spurs - huge team.
Miami Heat - smallball team

Weren’t you salivating over the Celtics small ball, switchable lineups claiming that was the future of the league?

You can’t just take out 4 championships in a span of a decade to try and make your point. Lol.

And the Cavs were starting 6’9 Tristan Thompson at center. Bucks went with Giannis at the 5 a lot in the finals. Lakers had a superstar in AD playing the 5. Heat weren’t big at all. But what’s lost in this is that the Cavs, Lakers and Heat had Lebron.

You’re completely wrong lol. Those teams were objectively big who HAD the CAPABILITY of “downsizing” when the matchup required it.

Very cute to call Giannis and AD at the 5 as downsizing considering they’re both 7 footers

Heat has done smallball 5 pretty successfully thanks to Bam being the best 1-5 defender in the league but even their smallness appears as a serious flaw in the finals. Just completely too small against the Lakers and Nuggets to make the series even competitive.

Masai has dropped the ball in roster construction. Playing Scottie at the 5 was a disservice to Scottie. Playing Siakam at the 5 was a disservice to Siakam, playing OG at the 5 was a disservice to OG. Having the worst spacing starting 5 in the league is a disservice to all of them and Darko.

This. It doesn't matter what GSW did they have unique talents in Steph Klay Draymond, plus KD. What we were doing was a disservice to our 3 forwards as Humbleren said, and Precious was never going to be a true center. He's had flashes but he's no Bam. Maybe as a back-up/ change of pace for Poeltl.

[tsherkin]

Lol I have always advocated for a centre, including when Sharone Wright didn't get enough of a chance to prove himself.

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a very long time. In fairness to us, he had a cup of tea in the NBA. 203 games, 7 of them in his final season and never in the league again at only 25. Damned car accident.

TBF, he was super trash. Couldn't rebound, was a big negative on offense, wasn't anything on defense. In Philly and with us. We didn't really need to give him more of a chance to prove himself because he couldn't do big man things, apart from offensive rebounding. And aside from that 11-game stretch post trade, he was total garbage at basically everything else.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Lol I have always advocated for a centre, including when Sharone Wright didn't get enough of a chance to prove himself.

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a very long time. In fairness to us, he had a cup of tea in the NBA. 203 games, 7 of them in his final season and never in the league again at only 25. Damned car accident.

TBF, he was super trash. Couldn't rebound, was a big negative on offense, wasn't anything on defense. In Philly and with us. We didn't really need to give him more of a chance to prove himself because he couldn't do big man things, apart from offensive rebounding. And aside from that 11-game stretch post trade, he was total garbage at basically everything else.

Thanks for indulging,

I agree about the defence, but not about his offence. His post game was above average, and in that era that really mattered. Had a great spin move.

[tsherkin]

I agree about the defence, but not about his offence. His post game was above average, and in that era that really mattered. Had a great spin move.

Mmmm... nostalgia. He had no finish outside of the RA whatsoever, and was a 91 TS+ guy on his career. The only time he wasn't below league-average was the 11-game stretch immediately after we acquired him. Definitely had all the negative offensive markers you could ask for. No range. Mediocre at the line early, terrible late. He was mobile and athletic. He had nice shimmies on the block, he handled contact well, the spin WAS nice, and he knew how to use his pump fake, I'll give him that. But yeah, he didn't have range, touch on his hook, like, eh, there's only so far you can go when you're a weak defender and can't operate more than 3 feet from the hoop. And he couldn't rebound on the defensive side of things to save his life. Even in that era, that's not a high-value prospect for a starter. Maybe as a Corliss Williamson-type 6th man, but not as a starting guy who needed more run than he got. Sad ending, though. He could have been a 10-year guy in the NBA, all that said. He'd have been a journeyman but he could have stuck around.

[dTox]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

[HumbleRen]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

More aggressive then how he was last year.

Not really seeing any improvements on his technical ability though. He cannot play PG.

[Tha Cynic]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

Handles look tighter, but so far hasn't really been pressured much or needed to create off the dribble.

His jumper definitely looks improved and he just looks very confident with it. His follow-through on those jumpers look good and he's definitely being more consistent with the mechanics. We'll see how it translates into the season.

He hasn't really operated in the mid-range and I don't think he has taken any jumpers from there yet, but looks overwhelming for the opponent inside - even more so than last season. We'll see against some of the really big guys.

He seems like a guy who can just decide he wants to score 20 in a game and get it easily. You can tell he's more in the mold of a Giannis or Lebron being able to overwhelm players as he needs. The aggression is clearly there so far and that will be what changes everything.

[Vampirate]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

Handles look tighter, but so far hasn't really been pressured much or needed to create off the dribble.

His jumper definitely looks improved and he just looks very confident with it. His follow-through ok those jumpers look good and he's definitely being more consistent in the mechanics. We'll see how it translates into the season.

He hasn't really operated in the mid-range and I don't think he has taken any jumpers from there yet, but looks overwhelming for the opponent inside - even more so than last season. We'll see against some of the really big guys.

He seems like a guy who can just decide he wants to score 20 in a game and get it easily. You can tell he's more in the mold of a Giannis or Lebron being able to overwhelm players as he needs. The aggression is clearly there so far and that will be what changes everything.

One thing i've noticed scoreboard watching is he's got to the line a fair bit. (granted it's pre season and the last opponent has to be taken with a huge grain of salt).

The fact that he's scored 14 and 15 points in about 18 minutes of play in both games is an encouraging sign, and the reason why he did is the same in both games. We'll see if that continues.

[libertyYYZ]

More from Samson Folk on Scottie...
https://youtu.be/Ia0cqBj6zSU

[Scase]

I think it’s accurate to say Barnes was a poor scorer and inefficient player last year.

I think it’s accurate to say that his defence and his effort were awful to start the season.

What I don’t think is fair is to utilize the above two points to place doubt on what Scottie will be as a veteran (year 5 and beyond), particularly when we ignore context and areas where he showed improvement, especially in the last two months of the season.

Here are some things that were also true for Barnes last season:

Spoiler:

-his role changed a minimum of three times throughout the season
-at no point was Scottie consistently put into his most advantageous spots. Of course, one can argue that the team was trying to stretch Scottie’s comfort zones a bit, which in the end might be of benefit, but in that stretching he was definitely given the ball in situations that were not his forte. For instance, we spent most of the first two months of the season relegating Scottie to being an off-ball guy in the corner or playing him with other poor offensive players (the bench), giving him the ball at the top of the arc and saying, “okay now go create.”
-Barnes shot the ball from deep better in the first quarter than other any other quarter, which might indicate that he has the ability and more consistency (even if that consistency is a 33% three point shooter) might come with conditioning.
-Scottie’s defense took a huge leap about halfway through the season, particularly with respect to what he did inside the arc (his perimeter defence was still average, but as a roamer he was fantastic in Feb/March imo).
-despite being an inefficient player overall, he was by far our most efficient fourth quarter scorer (and near the top of the league in this regard), regardless of the opponent and the coverages. Being able to break any defence or defender thrown at you, especially at the end of games against elite teams, is not the kind of flash/sign that you ignore.

So while I think it’s accurate to critique Barnes for where he was flat out bad and showed regression, I think it’s unfair to use those measures to place doubt on his future as a potential franchise player when we aren’t applying context, acknowledging areas where he did improveme, and not placing a 10,000 watt spotlight on his extremely promising quality of being able to takeover the end of games regardless of the opponent.

And he’s only 22.

And he might have been our most important player last year. Net on/offs:

Scottie +5.5
Fred +3.9
Pascal +3.1
OG +2.4
Trent -6.2

Jak and Koloko's identical net on/offs (+9.2) suggest we were just much better with a big.

But to your last statement, Scottie was always going to take a little longer to develop. He was a role player on all those good youth teams. His efficiency will improve as his skills with the ball improve which is something we can already see happening.

Not sure where you got those #'s but they are wrong.

Jakob +14.4
Koloko +9.6
FVV +5.9
Scottie +4.9
Siakam +3.1
OG +3.5
GTJ -6.7

According to cleaning the glass yours are off too.

Jakob +14.1
Koloko +10.5
FVV +6
Scottie +5.5
Siakam +3.8
OG +3.0
GTJ -5.4

No idea which source is the most accurate TBH, but one thing I think we can all agree on, is that the trend seems to be the same. Jak and Koloko seem to skew heavily to just having a somewhat competent/good C on the floor. The rest is splitting hairs I think, Scottie is still wildly productive and a net positive on the team despite being 22. His ROTY year for comparison he was a -3.6, that's a massive swing.

[TheAlchemist23]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

Watch on YouTube

All the centers were out so no pick and roll like we saw in the first game. I hope we see PnR next game, the Scottie-Jakob PnR leading to the dunk McGee is a glimpse of what he can do.

[canada_dry]

Lowe(and the rest of us): This is a massive Year 3 for Barnes, who was rendered off limits in trade talks for Kevin Durant and Damian Lillard, per league sources

The defensive weirdos: NoOoOo iTs nOt!!!

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[HumbleRen]

Lowe(and the rest of us): This is a massive Year 3 for Barnes, who was rendered off limits in trade talks for Kevin Durant and Damian Lillard, per league sources

The defensive weirdos: NoOoOo iTs nOt!!!

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Hilarious stuff.

This is a make or break year, I don’t care what anyone says.

[canada_dry]

Lowe(and the rest of us): This is a massive Year 3 for Barnes, who was rendered off limits in trade talks for Kevin Durant and Damian Lillard, per league sources

The defensive weirdos: NoOoOo iTs nOt!!!

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Hilarious stuff.

This is a make or break year, I don’t care what anyone says.

I respect that view, but I wouldn't even go as far as to say make or break, but words like "massive " "critical " "important " certainty apply despite how unnecessarily defensive some of the guys in here get. We absolutely need to see some things.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[canada_dry]

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[dTox]

Put that in your pipe and smoke it

Read on Twitter

?t=D4AQz1QLQMCnjxCUinq1RQ&s=19

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[Johnny Bball]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

Barnes is going to have a monster year.

Not sure what game everyone else watched.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

Barnes is going to have a monster year.

Not sure what game everyone else watched.

surround him around shooters and give him the ball and no1 can stop this guy

[Johnny Bball]

Missed the game, how'd our boy look?

Barnes is going to have a monster year.

Not sure what game everyone else watched.

surround him around shooters and give him the ball and no1 can stop this guy

He might not start the year as option 1, and leading scorer, but my bet is he finishes that way.

[-NSX-]

This guy can literally just play in the post or aggressively drive and he would be a 20 ppg player with good FG%. He will never be a perimeter 1st player, if he can knock down the open shots to keep the defense honest, that all you really need. Whenever he's in the post, he is great around the rim. Scottie is a walking mismatch and with his ability to see over the defense and his passing, this combination should be unstoppable.