Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Clay Davis]

In his 4th year he was coming off the most improved player award season. The general optimism about his potential was WAY stronger than the general outlook for Scottie is now.

Think so? I feel like the optimism about Siakam's rizz was dampened by the fact that the franchise that they never marketed him as a first option (which is moreso indicative of how the team was marketed then. Kawhi/Lowry were the rizzlords then).

But on that note I'd say Siakam's MIP was as unexpected as Scottie's ROTY (my favourite roti flavour is duck. What's yours?).

I''ve never had duck roti but that sounds delicious. I go for goat or oxtail as long as the gravy isn't too sweet. I find alot of takeout joints make the oxtail gravy too sugary.

Scotty DEFINITELY had a better prognosis in his rookie season than siakam. But in their respective 4th seasons it's not even close.

The age gap cuts both ways. That Barnes ceiling seems so limited at the age of 23 compared to siakam's ceiling seeming limitless at 25 isn't itself a ringing endorsement for scotty.

I wasn't even particularly high on siakam becoming a superstar....but there is no doubt that during his 4th season he had gotten so much better in a such a short amount of time and had so much momentum...even doubters had to say there was a conceivable path to superstardom for him.

Oh I see, you were restricting it to the fourth year of their respective career. Yah, I agree. The weird thing about Scottie's draft class is that the perceived highest rizz in that draft class changes seemingly every few months. Pre-draft it was Mobley/Cade/Suggs (never saw much Greene hype, interestingly enough)... then for awhile it was Mobley/Scottie, then it was Mobley/Wagner, and now it seems to be Mobley/Cade. Now there's a thread on the general board about Cade being the future face of the league, when during his rookie year people seemed to just lump him in with Jalen Greene lol.

I'd love to find some oxtail roti! Turns out the place in my area (Mona's Roti. They have locations in Scarborough and Ajax.) has it. I despaired of finding it tbh since I try to only eat halal meat and I find it hard to find halal oxtail lol. Duck roti is awesome. I'd recommend it 10/10 times.

[RoteSchroder]

The core of their team is the same age or younger, and they have already made the playoffs as the core players. Banchero was an AS in his sophomore year at the age of 22, Suggs was selected to the all defence 2nd team last year at the age of 22.

Not a single player on this entire roster has been selected to an all NBA/defence team in their entire careers, and the 2 AS selections were Scottie last year, and BI 6 years ago. The players that are leading their team aren't from "over a decade of tanking", not to mention it conveniently ignores that they got rid of their garbage GM and replaced him with Weltman, so seems pretty disingenuous to count the tanking prior to that. The core of their team (Suggs/Paolo/Franz), were drafted as far back as 4 years ago, our core is older/more experienced, and with less career accolades.

Also suggesting their depth is mediocre, and then naming 2 all star level players, is pretty hilarious. What exactly is our depth outside of Scottie/Jak at the PF/C? Boucher? Great argument, Mo Wagner is better and younger than Boucher, Goga is better. And if their depth is so much worse than ours, how is it that they have suffered more injuries, and to more impactful players, yet still have a much better record?

Can you explain to me how worse depth = better record when accounting for injuries, cause that math doesn't check out.

Lastly, calling them in "team mediocre" mode explains so much how and why people view this team the way they do. Their core players are in years 3 and 4, they were 5th in the east last year and made the playoffs, while adding wins every year to their season. I guess only the Raptors can rely on internal development, right?

Congrats to them, they got a 2nd all-defense team dude who's just as injury prone as Ingram and one fake all-star who's pretty much comparable to our fake all-star. Except 51 TS% Banchero is worse on defense and Magic fans want him traded. Who cares about accolades? Among the two teams, Franz is currently the best player and he has none of those useless accolades.

You seem to have major reading comprehension issues:

Orlando has a lot of mediocre depth, especially at the PF/C spots behind Banchero/Franz, so losing a couple players doesn't hurt as much. We have Poeltl and Boucher...and we don't even always play Boucher even when he's healthy. I don't see Orlando benching any of their rotation players on an injured roster or trading away their depth for an injured player.

1) This means they have MORE mediocre depth than us, not less.

2) A lot of mediocre depth BEHIND Banchero/Franz, not including. You do know what depth means right? Depth does NOT mean "top 2 players"

3) Team Mediocre means you're trying to win, out of the lottery, but not contending and thus treadmilling. Raptors are in the lottery. Orlando is in the play-in. Orlando also haven't added wins every year. 5th seed is their best ranking so far and that was last year.

You keep asking why they have a better record. Why do you keep repeating the same question?

1) We fielded multiple G-league players and rookies. Orlando didn't.
2) We traded away and/or didn't play veterans.
3) We have less mediocre depth.
4) We went into the season with the goal of developing, Orlando's trying to win.

Which one of these do you disagree with? Mediocre depth is great for maintaining the ship during the regular season (see the Lowry/Derozan era bench squad), but it doesn't win you championships.

[Reeko]

Think so? I feel like the optimism about Siakam's rizz was dampened by the fact that the franchise that they never marketed him as a first option (which is moreso indicative of how the team was marketed then. Kawhi/Lowry were the rizzlords then).

But on that note I'd say Siakam's MIP was as unexpected as Scottie's ROTY (my favourite roti flavour is duck. What's yours?).

I''ve never had duck roti but that sounds delicious. I go for goat or oxtail as long as the gravy isn't too sweet. I find alot of takeout joints make the oxtail gravy too sugary.

Scotty DEFINITELY had a better prognosis in his rookie season than siakam. But in their respective 4th seasons it's not even close.

The age gap cuts both ways. That Barnes ceiling seems so limited at the age of 23 compared to siakam's ceiling seeming limitless at 25 isn't itself a ringing endorsement for scotty.

I wasn't even particularly high on siakam becoming a superstar....but there is no doubt that during his 4th season he had gotten so much better in a such a short amount of time and had so much momentum...even doubters had to say there was a conceivable path to superstardom for him.

Oh I see, you were restricting it to the fourth year of their respective career. Yah, I agree. The weird thing about Scottie's draft class is that the perceived highest rizz in that draft class changes seemingly every few months. Pre-draft it was Mobley/Cade/Suggs (never saw much Greene hype, interestingly enough)... then for awhile it was Mobley/Scottie, then it was Mobley/Wagner, and now it seems to be Mobley/Cade. Now there's a thread on the general board about Cade being the future face of the league, when during his rookie year people seemed to just lump him in with Jalen Greene lol.

I'd love to find some oxtail roti! Turns out the place in my area (Mona's Roti. They have locations in Scarborough and Ajax.) has it. I despaired of finding it tbh since I try to only eat halal meat and I find it hard to find halal oxtail lol. Duck roti is awesome. I'd recommend it 10/10 times.

Don't do it. Mona's oxtail is not good.

[Clay Davis]

I''ve never had duck roti but that sounds delicious. I go for goat or oxtail as long as the gravy isn't too sweet. I find alot of takeout joints make the oxtail gravy too sugary.

Scotty DEFINITELY had a better prognosis in his rookie season than siakam. But in their respective 4th seasons it's not even close.

The age gap cuts both ways. That Barnes ceiling seems so limited at the age of 23 compared to siakam's ceiling seeming limitless at 25 isn't itself a ringing endorsement for scotty.

I wasn't even particularly high on siakam becoming a superstar....but there is no doubt that during his 4th season he had gotten so much better in a such a short amount of time and had so much momentum...even doubters had to say there was a conceivable path to superstardom for him.

Oh I see, you were restricting it to the fourth year of their respective career. Yah, I agree. The weird thing about Scottie's draft class is that the perceived highest rizz in that draft class changes seemingly every few months. Pre-draft it was Mobley/Cade/Suggs (never saw much Greene hype, interestingly enough)... then for awhile it was Mobley/Scottie, then it was Mobley/Wagner, and now it seems to be Mobley/Cade. Now there's a thread on the general board about Cade being the future face of the league, when during his rookie year people seemed to just lump him in with Jalen Greene lol.

I'd love to find some oxtail roti! Turns out the place in my area (Mona's Roti. They have locations in Scarborough and Ajax.) has it. I despaired of finding it tbh since I try to only eat halal meat and I find it hard to find halal oxtail lol. Duck roti is awesome. I'd recommend it 10/10 times.

Don't do it. Mona's oxtail is not good.

Where else can I find halal ox tail )): lrizzlrizz

[Drakeem]

Fact is.....siakam was a far more promising player in his fourth season.

The scotty brigade was totally delusional (also toxic) the past 3 years.

Siakam played with a much better team though.

In his 4th year he was coming off the most improved player award season. The general optimism about his potential was WAY stronger than the general outlook for Scottie is now.

So he was most improved player in his 3rd year. Then was the second scoring option on a championship team in his 4th year. It's questionable that scotty is even the second scoring option on a tanking team.

During his fourth season....Pascal was a legit contender for future top 20 player in the league. It never panned out....but noone would've said you were crazy to suggest it back then.

Whereas it's crazy to say scotty is a legit contender for future top 20 player right now.

Agree to disagree here. There was Siakam hype, but I wouldn't say it was on the same level as the Scottie hype. I also think the Scottie bandwagon has fallen partially bc interest in the team has fallen with this crappy season.

[mdenny]

I''ve never had duck roti but that sounds delicious. I go for goat or oxtail as long as the gravy isn't too sweet. I find alot of takeout joints make the oxtail gravy too sugary.

Scotty DEFINITELY had a better prognosis in his rookie season than siakam. But in their respective 4th seasons it's not even close.

The age gap cuts both ways. That Barnes ceiling seems so limited at the age of 23 compared to siakam's ceiling seeming limitless at 25 isn't itself a ringing endorsement for scotty.

I wasn't even particularly high on siakam becoming a superstar....but there is no doubt that during his 4th season he had gotten so much better in a such a short amount of time and had so much momentum...even doubters had to say there was a conceivable path to superstardom for him.

Oh I see, you were restricting it to the fourth year of their respective career. Yah, I agree. The weird thing about Scottie's draft class is that the perceived highest rizz in that draft class changes seemingly every few months. Pre-draft it was Mobley/Cade/Suggs (never saw much Greene hype, interestingly enough)... then for awhile it was Mobley/Scottie, then it was Mobley/Wagner, and now it seems to be Mobley/Cade. Now there's a thread on the general board about Cade being the future face of the league, when during his rookie year people seemed to just lump him in with Jalen Greene lol.

I'd love to find some oxtail roti! Turns out the place in my area (Mona's Roti. They have locations in Scarborough and Ajax.) has it. I despaired of finding it tbh since I try to only eat halal meat and I find it hard to find halal oxtail lol. Duck roti is awesome. I'd recommend it 10/10 times.

Don't do it. Mona's oxtail is not good.

Mona's in general went downhill imo. Tastes generic now whereas pre-pandemic it was pretty good.

[dballislife]

we all love scottie but the 0-5, 1-6, 1-7, 0-6, 1-5, 2-8 stuff over and over again and again is really starting to piss me off

[djsunyc]

we all love scottie but the 0-5, 1-6, 1-7, 0-6, 1-5, 2-8 stuff over and over again and again is really starting to piss me off

i think we are going to rework his shot diet a bit next year - along with ingram. this year is all about trying to develop stuff. his 3 has not gotten better. it is what it is.

[TorontoBarneys]

His #1 priority going into the offseason has to be fixing the 3pt shot once and for all. Nobody expects him to be an elite sharpshooter at this point but you have to be at least hitting at a 34% or so clip. That's not hard to do when most shots you take are uncontested, off-the-catch. It's just broken at this point.

If he could become an average 3pt shooter and become more aggressive down low like he was last night with slightly better finishing, he could become a force in the league.

[MEDIC]

I don't even care all that much about his 3.point shot. We should figure out the limit of his current range though. I would.like Scottoe model his game after KG. I haven't seen Scottie take very many long twos. KG was fantastic at them. After this season, I would get him to work inside.out. is his shot efficient enough from.20 feet right now? If it is....start there & slowly extend his range.

Scottie's defense & in between game are on point right now. Trending towards elite. This is who he is & I like that player.

He is playing like a championship level piece & that is the most important thing right now. He is playing with extreme confidece out there.

VC has to keep pumping his tires. Seems to be working.

Or maybe it's the GSP effect.....

[YogurtProducer]

we all love scottie but the 0-5, 1-6, 1-7, 0-6, 1-5, 2-8 stuff over and over again and again is really starting to piss me off

i think we are going to rework his shot diet a bit next year - along with ingram. this year is all about trying to develop stuff. his 3 has not gotten better. it is what it is.

Yep. Ingram has to get his 3PA's up to like 8 per game, and Scottie can operate mid-range.

[TimeForChange]

Read on Twitter

Some idiot on here yesterday in the game thread said they didn’t want to watch Scottie guard the perimeter because it looks like he’s wearing cement shoes.

Can you make a dumber statement than that?

[tsherkin]

His #1 priority going into the offseason has to be fixing the 3pt shot once and for all. Nobody expects him to be an elite sharpshooter at this point but you have to be at least hitting at a 34% or so clip. That's not hard to do when most shots you take are uncontested, off-the-catch. It's just broken at this point.

If he could become an average 3pt shooter and become more aggressive down low like he was last night with slightly better finishing, he could become a force in the league.

I mean, we all know this, but it isn't that easy. He's been horrible at it, including from the corner, for the bulk of his career. He typically has a month or two per season where it falls, and is otherwise incapable of hitting wide-open 3s.

He needs to get to the rim more somehow. He needs to take fewer 3s, and I think he needs to be operating out of the post a little more. And certainly working without the ball more, cutting and screening and the like.

I don't even care all that much about his 3.point shot. We should figure out the limit of his current range though. I would.like Scottoe model his game after KG. I haven't seen Scottie take very many long twos. KG was fantastic at them. After this season, I would get him to work inside.out. is his shot efficient enough from.20 feet right now? If it is....start there & slowly extend his range.

It isn't. He's shooting 34.9% from 16-23 feet this year, and only shot 38%+ there last season. On his career, he's a 38.2% shooter there (he shot 44.6% there in 2024), against a league average this year of 39.6%. So especially without the 60 games last season, he has shown no range.

[brownbobcat]

I mean, we all know this, but it isn't that easy. He's been horrible at it, including from the corner, for the bulk of his career. He typically has a month or two per season where it falls, and is otherwise incapable of hitting wide-open 3s.

He needs to get to the rim more somehow. He needs to take fewer 3s, and I think he needs to be operating out of the post a little more. And certainly working without the ball more, cutting and screening and the like.

This part is crucial. He absolutely needs to find more pathways to the rim independent of relying on being an outside shooting threat.

That means excelling at being the roll man & short roll like Sabonis. Fundamentals like setting good screens, footwork, pump fakes, triple threat. Being a good screener isn't just creating an advantage for the handler, it also usually creates a 4-on-3 or broken defence when the screener gets the ball back. Scottie's passing would be lethal in that environment, which is why he really needs to dedicate himself to the basics.

[dballislife]

i honestly want to see scottie relentlessly attack the offensive glass once he has bi rj and quick to handle to scoring load off him...get some more rebounds and put back baskets...he can post up more too as all 3 will play the perimeter

[Scase]

People who think Scottie has no impact on games, or doesn't make other players better, should take a look at the performance tonight.

[Buff]

Yeah Scottie is the worse and yet when he sits we suck the hardest. What happened to him tonight btw?

[mdenny]

I don't even care all that much about his 3.point shot. We should figure out the limit of his current range though. I would.like Scottoe model his game after KG. I haven't seen Scottie take very many long twos. KG was fantastic at them. After this season, I would get him to work inside.out. is his shot efficient enough from.20 feet right now? If it is....start there & slowly extend his range.

Scottie's defense & in between game are on point right now. Trending towards elite. This is who he is & I like that player.

He is playing like a championship level piece & that is the most important thing right now. He is playing with extreme confidece out there.

VC has to keep pumping his tires. Seems to be working.

Or maybe it's the GSP effect.....

The grasping at straws is getting kind of pathetic.

Bro....he is so far away from the athleticism of a player like KG. I mean....this is just delusional.

Scotty has turned into the guy that reasonable people predicted. His best improvements this season has been his team defense. His crazy social media followers who blamed other players and coaches and dreamed of media conspiracies were wrong.

He got overyhyped like other top picks (ie jonas and bargnani) before him by a segment of the fanbase. He is like a higher skilled Draymond which is pretty damn good. That's a reasonable comparison. He's gonna get alot of low numbered triple doubles and the occasional 30 piece while also serving as a defensive anchor. League wide probably top 40 range. Very good outcome for 4th overall pick. Ingram has a much higher ceiling simply because he is elite in traditional basketball skills. Dribbling, shooting, finishing.

KG is not a reasonable comparison.

[Buff]

I don't even care all that much about his 3.point shot. We should figure out the limit of his current range though. I would.like Scottoe model his game after KG. I haven't seen Scottie take very many long twos. KG was fantastic at them. After this season, I would get him to work inside.out. is his shot efficient enough from.20 feet right now? If it is....start there & slowly extend his range.

Scottie's defense & in between game are on point right now. Trending towards elite. This is who he is & I like that player.

He is playing like a championship level piece & that is the most important thing right now. He is playing with extreme confidece out there.

VC has to keep pumping his tires. Seems to be working.

Or maybe it's the GSP effect.....

The grasping at straws is getting kind of pathetic.

Bro....he is so far away from the athleticism of a player like KG. I mean....this is just delusional.

Scotty has turned into the guy that reasonable people predicted. His best improvements this season has been his team defense. His crazy social media followers who blamed other players and coaches and dreamed of media conspiracies were wrong.

He got overyhyped like other top picks (ie jonas and bargnani) before him by a segment of the fanbase. He is like a higher skilled Draymond which is pretty damn good. That's a reasonable comparison. He's gonna get alot of low numbered triple doubles and the occasional 30 piece while also serving as a defensive anchor. League wide probably top 40 range. Very good outcome for 4th overall pick. Ingram has a much higher ceiling simply because he is elite in traditional basketball skills. Dribbling, shooting, finishing.

KG is not a reasonable comparison.

I don't like the Draymond comparison at all, an 18ppg Draymond is not Draymond is Scottie Pippen. My point is that Draymond implies triple single and the jump offensively from Scottie makes it a bad comparison. Also, DG is a better defender.

[Raps in 4]

People who think Scottie has no impact on games, or doesn't make other players better, should take a look at the performance tonight.

It's the same people who called Lowry a scrub for years and attributed our success to DeRozan