Shams: BI extension (3 Years $120M) **Presser at 5:15pm** Link Pg. 24

[Scase]

Also who cares about covid, if you bothered to look, those are the two seasons where he played the MOST eligible games since his rookie year by a long shot. I wonder what could possibly have contributed to that, definitely couldn't be a shorter season with a long break mid way putting less strain on his body right? Nah, that would make too much sense and wouldn't allow you to come up with BS excuses.

I may not have tracked the conversation properly, so excuse me if I didn't.

But didn't you say load management has no impact on injuries. But then here you're saying he was healthy during covid seasons because of less work load on his body which would, in essence, equate to load management?

Well first of all, the study said it has no impact on it, so I'm deferring to people who did the research for obvious reasons.

And second, load management is typically seen in the form of resting on b2bs or giving a couple games here and there.

It's likely just a case of less games overall, so less games for him to miss, to know for sure you'd need to pull data for every single player in the NBA over those 2 years and see how dramatically their missed games changed vs normal. I certainly don't have access to that data in an easy to acquire manner, if you do, you're more than welcome to crunch the numbers, I'd be curious at the results.

The initial conversation was spurred on from people trying to claim that he's not injury prone, and then devolved into nonsense like

Barnes is injury prone for getting elbowed in the eye/broken face to some people.

BI has played under the average games played if you include this year, but just slightly.

He's also the one that linked the article that specifically references the NBAs study finding it has no impact. TBH I have no idea what he is trying to argue, other than just arguing.

BI is chronically injured in pretty much every sense of the word, in his last 3 seasons, not even counting this one, he's missed 34% of his eligible games. Looks even worse when you account for this one, even if we ignore him sitting out the rest of the season intentionally.

Maybe that changes when he comes here, but there isn't really anything to suggest otherwise.

[Duffman100]

It's likely just a case of less games overall, so less games for him to miss, to know for sure you'd need to pull data for every single player in the NBA over those 2 years and see how dramatically their missed games changed vs normal. I certainly don't have access to that data in an easy to acquire manner, if you do, you're more than welcome to crunch the numbers, I'd be curious at the results.

Re: Less games to miss is resolved when you look at %s not just raw numbers.

Either way, if fewer games in COVID allowed him to be less exposed to injuries and the impact on his body was less. It would be reasonable to assume that load management would have the same impact.

[Appostis]

Just wait until you discover there is a difference between load management, and players being outright injured. Load management has been shown to have no impact on preventing injuries. It's also teams preemptively sitting players to PREVENT injuries, whether right or wrong, those players are not injured and are fit to play, but are being intentionally rested.

BI was injured, but I'm sure you'll keep digging for another reason why it's ok to have key players missing 20-30 games a season, and any other excuse you can find to try and argue that he isn't chronically injured.

Look I'll admit I'm wrong as soon as you can supply some evidence to support your point.

Somehow Bi's missed are injury related but every other stars is just rest....

The guy is not a iron man. He is injured far more then I'd prefer any player making his level of cash would be.

But going on with nonsense that his missed ganes are different then other stars missed games... He's missed slightly more then the average star. The reason why..how..whatever the f..does that matter?
Games played are games played.

Evidence of what, that load management is resting healthy players? Are you serious, that's literally why they created new rules for it.

Just wait until you discover there is a difference between load management, and players being outright injured. Load management has been shown to have no impact on preventing injuries. It's also teams preemptively sitting players to PREVENT injuries, whether right or wrong, those players are not injured and are fit to play, but are being intentionally rested.

BI was injured, but I'm sure you'll keep digging for another reason why it's ok to have key players missing 20-30 games a season, and any other excuse you can find to try and argue that he isn't chronically injured.

This is not true. I wonder if you know it is not true and just saying it to make a point or just not aware of it not being true. Hard to tell these days.

It's literally in the article HE posted, holy christ you guys will just argue anything that doesn't fit your views. Actual studies have shown this, but because it proves you drones to be wrong, you claim it to be untrue.

There are studies showing that it has no impact, how about YOU go find some studies showing that it DOES make a difference.

He’s been relatively healthy in 3 seasons. Two seasons were shortened due to COVID

Relatively healthy based on what, not being able to do basic arithmetic?

24-25 he has missed 67% of his eligible games, so far.
23-24 he missed 22% of his eligible games.
22-23 he missed 45% of his eligible games.
21-22 he missed 33% of his eligible games.
20-21 he missed 15% of his eligible games, Covid year.
19-20 he missed 14% of his eligible games, Covid year.
18-19 he missed 37% of his eligible games.
17-18 he missed 28% of his eligible games.
16-17 he missed 6% of his eligible games, rookie year.

Also who cares about covid, if you bothered to look, those are the two seasons where he played the MOST eligible games since his rookie year by a long shot. I wonder what could possibly have contributed to that, definitely couldn't be a shorter season with a long break mid way putting less strain on his body right? Nah, that would make too much sense and wouldn't allow you to come up with BS excuses.

These are not flat numbers, he has missed 32% of ALL ELIGIBLE games in the last 8 years. Not during covid, not some random year, all of them but his rookie campaign.

Nothing is guaranteed. Half his injuries were due to freak accidents and he’s had some minor injuries that can possibly recur or become chronic, likely due to muscle imbalance. And reports are that he may not play for the rest of the season, which gives time for physiotherapists/trainers to strengthen his body.

His injury concerns are why we can get him on such a cheap trade in the first place. It’s low-medium risk, high reward.

Yeah just like OG right? The same guy people lambasted for being injury prone. Who cares WHY he is missing games, it doesn't matter if it's chronic or freak accidents, it's the same result, he misses over a THIRD of the games he is eligible to play. But sure, year after year after year, of the same thing happening, and its all just bad luck and coincidence.

Salary control of a mediocre or bench player for 7 years isn’t better than short term salary control of a high level starter. And there’s no reason a player wouldn’t re-sign if things are going well, while players on rookie deals can also demand trades. When things aren’t going well, it doesn’t matter what type of salary control you have.

You think selling Powell for a younger GTJr is better if we have better salary control?

WTF are you even talking about a mediocre bench player? Having a player like Paolo, or Scottie, or Franz on a cost controlled 5 year contract, and then a team control extension isn't better than having a role player on one? What in gods name are you even trying to say?

A third point I’d make is that by trading for IQ/RJ and with Poeltl on the team, we weren’t in an all-out tank position in the first place. TWO got incredibly “lucky” with injuries. This is not a “bottom out” team. If we were a team starting from zero like the Wizards, then yeah, Ingram makes no sense.

Yeah we aren't as bad as the Wiz, thanks for the newsflash. Now we can be as good as the Bulls, that's definitely a better place to be.

All 3 of you are just saying the same dumb crap in the face of blatant evidence, it's all a conspiracy theory guys, BI is actually really quite healthy

I'm saying missed games is missed games.
You're the guy saying BI is the only one injured while everyone else is just liad managed..

He missed slightly more games then the average. You can't seem to accept that. *Shrug*

[Scase]

It's likely just a case of less games overall, so less games for him to miss, to know for sure you'd need to pull data for every single player in the NBA over those 2 years and see how dramatically their missed games changed vs normal. I certainly don't have access to that data in an easy to acquire manner, if you do, you're more than welcome to crunch the numbers, I'd be curious at the results.

Re: Less games to miss is resolved when you look at %s not just raw numbers.

Either way, if fewer games in COVID allowed him to be less exposed to injuries and the impact on his body was less. It would be reasonable to assume that load management would have the same impact.

Less games to miss is resolved by %s when you have a substantial sample size, hence why I'm saying that you would need to pull the data on every single player for one or both of those seasons. I would argue the first year of covid wouldn't be valid data since it is objectively an outlier, it had a 4 month break in the middle of the season, that is incongruent with what load management is typically defined as, that's essentially an entire off season, that should result in lower injuries. Load management is a handful of games here and there, injury from repetitive motions and stress don't disappear from missing a few games, bodies need more time to heal. But 4 months off in the middle of the season, yeah I can absolutely see that having a correlation to less injuries.

So realistically, we'd need player data from all active players, likely the 17-18 and 18-19 seasons, the 20-21 season, and the 2 that followed it for a reasonable sample size and some A/B testing. Even then I wouldn't stake too much on those results since the sample is just that one 20-21 season, maybe 400+ players worth of game data is enough though, hard to say.

And as soon as there is evidence to show that to be the case, I'll agree. But until then, there is already a study, and it states the opposite. Reasonable assumptions are all well and fine until you have data that says otherwise.

So right now, people are arguing in the face of actual research with "common sense", which is not how scientific research is concluded.

[Scase]

Look I'll admit I'm wrong as soon as you can supply some evidence to support your point.

Somehow Bi's missed are injury related but every other stars is just rest....

The guy is not a iron man. He is injured far more then I'd prefer any player making his level of cash would be.

But going on with nonsense that his missed ganes are different then other stars missed games... He's missed slightly more then the average star. The reason why..how..whatever the f..does that matter?
Games played are games played.

Evidence of what, that load management is resting healthy players? Are you serious, that's literally why they created new rules for it.

This is not true. I wonder if you know it is not true and just saying it to make a point or just not aware of it not being true. Hard to tell these days.

It's literally in the article HE posted, holy christ you guys will just argue anything that doesn't fit your views. Actual studies have shown this, but because it proves you drones to be wrong, you claim it to be untrue.

There are studies showing that it has no impact, how about YOU go find some studies showing that it DOES make a difference.

He’s been relatively healthy in 3 seasons. Two seasons were shortened due to COVID

Relatively healthy based on what, not being able to do basic arithmetic?

24-25 he has missed 67% of his eligible games, so far.
23-24 he missed 22% of his eligible games.
22-23 he missed 45% of his eligible games.
21-22 he missed 33% of his eligible games.
20-21 he missed 15% of his eligible games, Covid year.
19-20 he missed 14% of his eligible games, Covid year.
18-19 he missed 37% of his eligible games.
17-18 he missed 28% of his eligible games.
16-17 he missed 6% of his eligible games, rookie year.

Also who cares about covid, if you bothered to look, those are the two seasons where he played the MOST eligible games since his rookie year by a long shot. I wonder what could possibly have contributed to that, definitely couldn't be a shorter season with a long break mid way putting less strain on his body right? Nah, that would make too much sense and wouldn't allow you to come up with BS excuses.

These are not flat numbers, he has missed 32% of ALL ELIGIBLE games in the last 8 years. Not during covid, not some random year, all of them but his rookie campaign.

Nothing is guaranteed. Half his injuries were due to freak accidents and he’s had some minor injuries that can possibly recur or become chronic, likely due to muscle imbalance. And reports are that he may not play for the rest of the season, which gives time for physiotherapists/trainers to strengthen his body.

His injury concerns are why we can get him on such a cheap trade in the first place. It’s low-medium risk, high reward.

Yeah just like OG right? The same guy people lambasted for being injury prone. Who cares WHY he is missing games, it doesn't matter if it's chronic or freak accidents, it's the same result, he misses over a THIRD of the games he is eligible to play. But sure, year after year after year, of the same thing happening, and its all just bad luck and coincidence.

Salary control of a mediocre or bench player for 7 years isn’t better than short term salary control of a high level starter. And there’s no reason a player wouldn’t re-sign if things are going well, while players on rookie deals can also demand trades. When things aren’t going well, it doesn’t matter what type of salary control you have.

You think selling Powell for a younger GTJr is better if we have better salary control?

WTF are you even talking about a mediocre bench player? Having a player like Paolo, or Scottie, or Franz on a cost controlled 5 year contract, and then a team control extension isn't better than having a role player on one? What in gods name are you even trying to say?

A third point I’d make is that by trading for IQ/RJ and with Poeltl on the team, we weren’t in an all-out tank position in the first place. TWO got incredibly “lucky” with injuries. This is not a “bottom out” team. If we were a team starting from zero like the Wizards, then yeah, Ingram makes no sense.

Yeah we aren't as bad as the Wiz, thanks for the newsflash. Now we can be as good as the Bulls, that's definitely a better place to be.

All 3 of you are just saying the same dumb crap in the face of blatant evidence, it's all a conspiracy theory guys, BI is actually really quite healthy

I'm saying missed games is missed games.
You're the guy saying BI is the only one injured while everyone else is just liad managed..

He missed slightly more games then the average. You can't seem to accept that. *Shrug*

You are clearly struggling to understand it.

Not all players missing games are load management.
BI has had a documented injury history of many games missed in succession.
Load management is typically sitting B2Bs or a random game here and there to prevent things like 4 games in 5 nights.

If you can't parse the differences here, then we're going nowhere and it's best to call it.

[Tha Cynic]

It’s clear BI is injury prone. It seems the Raptors took that into account, checked his history and still felt this is someone worth taking a gamble on. Is there really any more to it? If we’re going to trust a study, we can also trust that the front office did their due diligence and are comfortable of the risk vs rewards.

[Appostis]

Evidence of what, that load management is resting healthy players? Are you serious, that's literally why they created new rules for it.



It's literally in the article HE posted, holy christ you guys will just argue anything that doesn't fit your views. Actual studies have shown this, but because it proves you drones to be wrong, you claim it to be untrue.

There are studies showing that it has no impact, how about YOU go find some studies showing that it DOES make a difference.

Relatively healthy based on what, not being able to do basic arithmetic?

24-25 he has missed 67% of his eligible games, so far.
23-24 he missed 22% of his eligible games.
22-23 he missed 45% of his eligible games.
21-22 he missed 33% of his eligible games.
20-21 he missed 15% of his eligible games, Covid year.
19-20 he missed 14% of his eligible games, Covid year.
18-19 he missed 37% of his eligible games.
17-18 he missed 28% of his eligible games.
16-17 he missed 6% of his eligible games, rookie year.

Also who cares about covid, if you bothered to look, those are the two seasons where he played the MOST eligible games since his rookie year by a long shot. I wonder what could possibly have contributed to that, definitely couldn't be a shorter season with a long break mid way putting less strain on his body right? Nah, that would make too much sense and wouldn't allow you to come up with BS excuses.

These are not flat numbers, he has missed 32% of ALL ELIGIBLE games in the last 8 years. Not during covid, not some random year, all of them but his rookie campaign.


Yeah just like OG right? The same guy people lambasted for being injury prone. Who cares WHY he is missing games, it doesn't matter if it's chronic or freak accidents, it's the same result, he misses over a THIRD of the games he is eligible to play. But sure, year after year after year, of the same thing happening, and its all just bad luck and coincidence.


WTF are you even talking about a mediocre bench player? Having a player like Paolo, or Scottie, or Franz on a cost controlled 5 year contract, and then a team control extension isn't better than having a role player on one? What in gods name are you even trying to say?


Yeah we aren't as bad as the Wiz, thanks for the newsflash. Now we can be as good as the Bulls, that's definitely a better place to be.

All 3 of you are just saying the same dumb crap in the face of blatant evidence, it's all a conspiracy theory guys, BI is actually really quite healthy

I'm saying missed games is missed games.
You're the guy saying BI is the only one injured while everyone else is just liad managed..

He missed slightly more games then the average. You can't seem to accept that. *Shrug*

You are clearly struggling to understand it.

Not all players missing games are load management.
BI has had a documented injury history of many games missed in succession.
Load management is typically sitting B2Bs or a random game here and there to prevent things like 4 games in 5 nights.

If you can't parse the differences here, then we're going nowhere and it's best to call it.

Does it make a difference? No.
Load management is related to injury and I just prevention. Absolutely no difference if it's coded "rest" or load management vs listed as a injury.



Good talk.

[RoteSchroder]

Also who cares about covid, if you bothered to look, those are the two seasons where he played the MOST eligible games since his rookie year by a long shot. I wonder what could possibly have contributed to that, definitely couldn't be a shorter season with a long break mid way putting less strain on his body right? Nah, that would make too much sense and wouldn't allow you to come up with BS excuses.

I may not have tracked the conversation properly, so excuse me if I didn't.

But didn't you say load management has no impact on injuries. But then here you're saying he was healthy during covid seasons because of less work load on his body which would, in essence, equate to load management?

Well first of all, the study said it has no impact on it, so I'm deferring to people who did the research for obvious reasons.

And second, load management is typically seen in the form of resting on b2bs or giving a couple games here and there.

It's likely just a case of less games overall, so less games for him to miss, to know for sure you'd need to pull data for every single player in the NBA over those 2 years and see how dramatically their missed games changed vs normal. I certainly don't have access to that data in an easy to acquire manner, if you do, you're more than welcome to crunch the numbers, I'd be curious at the results.

The initial conversation was spurred on from people trying to claim that he's not injury prone, and then devolved into nonsense like

Barnes is injury prone for getting elbowed in the eye/broken face to some people.

BI has played under the average games played if you include this year, but just slightly.

He's also the one that linked the article that specifically references the NBAs study finding it has no impact. TBH I have no idea what he is trying to argue, other than just arguing.

BI is chronically injured in pretty much every sense of the word, in his last 3 seasons, not even counting this one, he's missed 34% of his eligible games. Looks even worse when you account for this one, even if we ignore him sitting out the rest of the season intentionally.

Maybe that changes when he comes here, but there isn't really anything to suggest otherwise.

You’re just ragging on nonsensically and getting angry at something you can’t predict. Pretty pathetic that you’re contradicting yourself on load management vs COVID. “Deferring to ppl” when it fits your agenda. Seems rather convenient doesn’t it.

1) We traded the Indiana pick for Ingram, unlikely it’s a top 10 pick that ends up in Scottie/Franz/Banchero.
2) We’re tanking this season either way and getting a top 10 2025 pick.
3) It’s unlikely we get as lucky for a tank in 2026 even without Ingram, unless the entire roster is just injury prone from now on (which isn’t just an Ingram problem and not even just a Raptors problem, but the entire league is getting more injury prone). The difference could be a #10 pick vs a #15.

We’re also not guaranteed to get a Scottie/Franz/Banchero level player at any pick. Look at the hyped up busts over the years. The biggest loss is essentially the Indiana pick..and at that range we’ve recently gotten Malachi/Gradey/Ja’Kobe, mediocre bench players versus Ingram a player guaranteed to be better than Scottie, but who needs to be rehabilitated. That is the trade off..it’s not the end of the world.

You’re the dude who thought there was more than 82 games in the regular season, the guy who thinks Gradey Dick’s a starter, and how Scottie was gonna average a triple double with better teammates. You may want to give yourself some leeway for self-doubt instead of being so hard-headed, cause u sure as hell aren’t great at predicting the future.

[Merit]

Just wait until you discover there is a difference between load management, and players being outright injured. Load management has been shown to have no impact on preventing injuries. It's also teams preemptively sitting players to PREVENT injuries, whether right or wrong, those players are not injured and are fit to play, but are being intentionally rested.

BI was injured, but I'm sure you'll keep digging for another reason why it's ok to have key players missing 20-30 games a season, and any other excuse you can find to try and argue that he isn't chronically injured.

This is not true. I wonder if you know it is not true and just saying it to make a point or just not aware of it not being true. Hard to tell these days.

Depending on what you consider load management, Scase is correct. It was big news last year:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39288379/nba-report-no-link-load-management-less-injury-risk

There is no link between load management and preventing injuries.

Pretty sure load management is for *Managing* injuries…

From the article itself:

Dr. Christina Mack, epidemiologist and and chief scientific officer at IQVIA Injury Surveillance & Analytics, which produced the report, was careful to point out that the report does not say that load management doesn't work, either.

"We're not saying it's better or worse," Mack said.

[NotMyKawhi]

Kind of shocked how anyone is mad. A 22, 6 and 6 guy pushes for a trade to our team. Who can't sign any free agents. And we give up Joey Graham.

Huge win imo

[ForeverTFC]

BI is trending to be injury prone. I wouldn't label him as such yet, but I don't fault anyone for projecting it.

With that said, '24-'25 needs to be ignored. I bet this guy could have played in NO and can play now if he wanted to.

[mtcan]

As I said before...the Pelicans literally did not have a physical therapist on staff until 2023...tells you all you need to know about that poverty franchise. BI will be better taken care of in Toronto. Hopefully that improves his attendance.

Ingram played 59 and 52 games with the Lakers after playing 79 games his first season. Since then he’s consistently been in the 50 to 60 game range. There’s definitely a risk of injury with him that can’t be just blamed on New Orleans

So...his last season in LA before getting traded...BI developed a blood clot in his arm and so that is no fault of anyone really. He missed the rest of the season for that. The season before was a groin strain and concussion...and those can happen to any player.

What I do notice are a quite a few ankle sprains over the years while in NO and that might be a trend.

I think the lack of appropriate rehab staff in the Pelicans organization could be to blame because they would have targeted the ankle to improve the stability.

[Son Goku 25]

BI is trending to be injury prone. I wouldn't label him as such yet, but I don't fault anyone for projecting it.

With that said, '24-'25 needs to be ignored. I bet this guy could have played in NO and can play now if he wanted to.

Yup. Bet they are all in to get his body in the best shape next 9 months and beyond.

[hyper316]

Reported Pels offered $160MM/4 years. BI took less money to be here

[Merit]

Reported Pels offered $160MM/4 years. BI took less money to be here

Didn’t know this; thanks. What’s clutch for me is that he was sitting on the bench forever. Like - I like TM3 and Jones a ton, but BI destroys both of them offensively.

IMO BI needed to get more touches and they needed to move CJ instead, but they aren’t going to get nearly the return for him. Frankly they still need to trade both CJ and Zion.

[Scase]

Kind of shocked how anyone is mad. A 22, 6 and 6 guy pushes for a trade to our team. Who can't sign any free agents. And we give up Joey Graham.

Huge win imo

He didn't push for a trade to our team, he pushed for a trade to the only team who would give him an extension.

Atlanta had been the other team deep in trade talks with the Pelicans about acquiring Ingram in a deal that would have sent Clint Capela to New Orleans, per Fischer. The Hawks, however, were reluctant to sign Ingram to an extension.

He wasn't even our first choice, we wanted Hunter, but CLE wanted him more. Sorry to ruin this boards fantasy.

[tdotrep2]

Kind of shocked how anyone is mad. A 22, 6 and 6 guy pushes for a trade to our team. Who can't sign any free agents. And we give up Joey Graham.

Huge win imo

He didn't push for a trade to our team, he pushed for a trade to the only team who would give him an extension.

Atlanta had been the other team deep in trade talks with the Pelicans about acquiring Ingram in a deal that would have sent Clint Capela to New Orleans, per Fischer. The Hawks, however, were reluctant to sign Ingram to an extension.

He wasn't even our first choice, we wanted Hunter, but CLE wanted him more. Sorry to ruin this boards fantasy.

where is it stated they our priority was hunter over ingram?

[hyper316]

Kind of shocked how anyone is mad. A 22, 6 and 6 guy pushes for a trade to our team. Who can't sign any free agents. And we give up Joey Graham.

Huge win imo

He didn't push for a trade to our team, he pushed for a trade to the only team who would give him an extension.

Atlanta had been the other team deep in trade talks with the Pelicans about acquiring Ingram in a deal that would have sent Clint Capela to New Orleans, per Fischer. The Hawks, however, were reluctant to sign Ingram to an extension.

He wasn't even our first choice, we wanted Hunter, but CLE wanted him more. Sorry to ruin this boards fantasy.

where is it stated they our priority was hunter over ingram?

If raps wanted hunter, pretty sure would have gotten hunter when FO traded siakam

[Merit]

Kind of shocked how anyone is mad. A 22, 6 and 6 guy pushes for a trade to our team. Who can't sign any free agents. And we give up Joey Graham.

Huge win imo

He didn't push for a trade to our team, he pushed for a trade to the only team who would give him an extension.

Atlanta had been the other team deep in trade talks with the Pelicans about acquiring Ingram in a deal that would have sent Clint Capela to New Orleans, per Fischer. The Hawks, however, were reluctant to sign Ingram to an extension.

He wasn't even our first choice, we wanted Hunter, but CLE wanted him more. Sorry to ruin this boards fantasy.

I mean - we wanted both of them.

[Merit]

Kind of shocked how anyone is mad. A 22, 6 and 6 guy pushes for a trade to our team. Who can't sign any free agents. And we give up Joey Graham.

Huge win imo

He didn't push for a trade to our team, he pushed for a trade to the only team who would give him an extension.

Atlanta had been the other team deep in trade talks with the Pelicans about acquiring Ingram in a deal that would have sent Clint Capela to New Orleans, per Fischer. The Hawks, however, were reluctant to sign Ingram to an extension.

He wasn't even our first choice, we wanted Hunter, but CLE wanted him more. Sorry to ruin this boards fantasy.

where is it stated they our priority was hunter over ingram?

It’s not. That’s fiction.