2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

[Mark_83]

The Coward stuff is sort of funny to me because without the draft hype and sheen all I see is an Alan Anderson sort of scoring guard. Not to say he won't be vastly better or is more athletic but people always sort of overhype scoring guards to a degree. The stuff he was doing against that quality of competition looked good aesthetic-wise but most 2guards in the league can score and are athletic so those things won't be anywhere near pronounced. So what are you left with once reality hits and he's just a 21-year-old rookie who isn't really doing anything that special?

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Well, if he's a better Alan Anderson that's a good player. What if he's more Kris Middleton than Alan Anderson?

Sample size is small but here's the college stats for Anderson Vs Coward

26.6 4.5 8.1 .556 0.8 2.0 .385 3.8 6.2 .611 .603 3.5 3.9 .877 1.8 3.7 5.6 1.7 1.0 0.2 1.6 2.7 13.2
33.0 5.7 10.2 .557 2.0 5.0 .400 3.7 5.2 .710 .656 4.3 5.2 .839 1.8 5.2 7.0 3.7 0.8 1.7 2.2 2.7 17.7

for apples to apples here is the per40 numbers

MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
877 6.8 12.2 .556 1.1 3.0 .385 5.7 9.3 .611 .603 5.2 5.9 .877 2.8 5.6 8.4 2.6 1.5 0.3 2.5 4.1 19.9
198 6.9 12.3 .557 2.4 6.1 .400 4.4 6.3 .710 .656 5.3 6.3 .839 2.2 6.3 8.5 4.4 1.0 2.0 2.6 3.2 21.4

Actually fairly similar. Coward had the better shooting numbers, assists and blocks. Everything else similar. Worth noting, Coward significantly higher volume 3 point shooter.

Watching Game Theory tonight... Guess who Sam is considering putting in his top 10!

Alan Anderson?

[S.W.A.N]

Well, if he's a better Alan Anderson that's a good player. What if he's more Kris Middleton than Alan Anderson?

Sample size is small but here's the college stats for Anderson Vs Coward

26.6 4.5 8.1 .556 0.8 2.0 .385 3.8 6.2 .611 .603 3.5 3.9 .877 1.8 3.7 5.6 1.7 1.0 0.2 1.6 2.7 13.2
33.0 5.7 10.2 .557 2.0 5.0 .400 3.7 5.2 .710 .656 4.3 5.2 .839 1.8 5.2 7.0 3.7 0.8 1.7 2.2 2.7 17.7

for apples to apples here is the per40 numbers

MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
877 6.8 12.2 .556 1.1 3.0 .385 5.7 9.3 .611 .603 5.2 5.9 .877 2.8 5.6 8.4 2.6 1.5 0.3 2.5 4.1 19.9
198 6.9 12.3 .557 2.4 6.1 .400 4.4 6.3 .710 .656 5.3 6.3 .839 2.2 6.3 8.5 4.4 1.0 2.0 2.6 3.2 21.4

Actually fairly similar. Coward had the better shooting numbers, assists and blocks. Everything else similar. Worth noting, Coward significantly higher volume 3 point shooter.

Watching Game Theory tonight... Guess who Sam is considering putting in his top 10!

Alan Anderson?

[Brinbe]

The Coward stuff is sort of funny to me because without the draft hype and sheen all I see is an Alan Anderson sort of scoring guard. Not to say he won't be vastly better or is more athletic but people always sort of overhype scoring guards to a degree. The stuff he was doing against that quality of competition looked good aesthetic-wise but most 2guards in the league can score and are athletic so those things won't be anywhere near pronounced. So what are you left with once reality hits and he's just a 21-year-old rookie who isn't really doing anything that special?

Watch on YouTube

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Well, if he's a better Alan Anderson that's a good player. What if he's more Kris Middleton than Alan Anderson?

Sample size is small but here's the college stats for Anderson Vs Coward

26.6 4.5 8.1 .556 0.8 2.0 .385 3.8 6.2 .611 .603 3.5 3.9 .877 1.8 3.7 5.6 1.7 1.0 0.2 1.6 2.7 13.2
33.0 5.7 10.2 .557 2.0 5.0 .400 3.7 5.2 .710 .656 4.3 5.2 .839 1.8 5.2 7.0 3.7 0.8 1.7 2.2 2.7 17.7

for apples to apples here is the per40 numbers

MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
877 6.8 12.2 .556 1.1 3.0 .385 5.7 9.3 .611 .603 5.2 5.9 .877 2.8 5.6 8.4 2.6 1.5 0.3 2.5 4.1 19.9
198 6.9 12.3 .557 2.4 6.1 .400 4.4 6.3 .710 .656 5.3 6.3 .839 2.2 6.3 8.5 4.4 1.0 2.0 2.6 3.2 21.4

Actually fairly similar. Coward had the better shooting numbers, assists and blocks. Everything else similar. Worth noting, Coward significantly higher volume 3 point shooter.

That's my point and Alan Anderson played in a much better conference in the big ten @ MSU. Vecenie has also been one of Coward's biggest media jock riders since the beginning of this entire process so I take his word as a bit biased tbh. Again, not saying he's Anderson. He could be Alec Burks or Shaedon Sharpe, which would be funny since they're the same age, but I just caution against being sucked in by the hype.

[ATLTimekeeper]

yeah you're right they aren't ideal shots. He's not a perfect guard by any means.

But I think if we take a step back on Jak, on the whole, he's a talented guard who's strengths actually fit a major hole for our team. The tough shots and turnovers I think can be sniffed out by Darko over time.

He can really manipulate pick and rolls and seems to make the correct decisions. Crafty. His head is on swivel and being a bigger guard he can pass over top. He showed he can shoot it .. and it seems that injury hindered him last season.

The Gordan Dragic comp is a good one IMO. If he ever hit that ceiling at pick #9, that's tremendous value. Dragic was fkin good.

He's a floor general, he can set the tempo, get the offense in advantages situations each posessions...we need that in this offense. The only question will be the shot creation and shot consistency. He could get this offense to another level.

If he could hit those step backs all season long, including against better teams, he definitely should be in consideration. However, it didn't happen..whether it's because of his nagging forearm injury on his off-hand or because he regressed to the mean. His three point shooting pre-college was a bit shaky. The drop off in his shooting/scoring also affected his team's W/L.

Considering his athletic and defensive profile isn't that strong, we don't need a guy who can't hit shots at an elite level. Being a passer and floor general seems quite useless to me unless he's able to be a serious scoring threat. After his injury, he averaged 39 FG% from the floor, albeit, I think his 2P% was still ok (~54-55%).

He also majorly short-armed his standing reach to bump his vert. He's not a good athlete, but he is strong and tough. He has finishing craft around the basket. I think he's a solid guard prospect and since he's so young you can maybe overlook a lot of the statistical blips like his TOs and plummeting outside shooting.

[MavCarter]

Carter Bryant is only a year younger than Rasheer and is such a bigger developmental project. Give me Rasheer all day

[Yallbecrazy]

He's a floor general, he can set the tempo, get the offense in advantages situations each posessions...we need that in this offense. The only question will be the shot creation and shot consistency. He could get this offense to another level.

If he could hit those step backs all season long, including against better teams, he definitely should be in consideration. However, it didn't happen..whether it's because of his nagging forearm injury on his off-hand or because he regressed to the mean. His three point shooting pre-college was a bit shaky. The drop off in his shooting/scoring also affected his team's W/L.

Considering his athletic and defensive profile isn't that strong, we don't need a guy who can't hit shots at an elite level. Being a passer and floor general seems quite useless to me unless he's able to be a serious scoring threat. After his injury, he averaged 39 FG% from the floor, albeit, I think his 2P% was still ok (~54-55%).

He also majorly short-armed his standing reach to bump his vert. He's not a good athlete, but he is strong and tough. He has finishing craft around the basket. I think he's a solid guard prospect and since he's so young you can maybe overlook a lot of the statistical blips like his TOs and plummeting outside shooting.

Looked it up and maybe he did by 1-2 inches...or maybe he just has a really long neck and head.

I did notice Tre Johnson short armed his by 2-3 inches though so you can take that off his vertical too.

[WuTang_CMB]

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I think this is a double edge sword.

The more lottery players a team in the lottery is able to work out the more their hands are hidden.

I mean the more but you try to hide it the more it’s suspicious. The more you make it look like it’s no big deal or you invite the media and camera and generate contents for your fans the less it’s look like the work out is a big deal.

As for a player , yes working out the Celtics could make it looks like you are going end of lottery or it could look like even a contender teams is interested in you .

It’s also possible for team that is certain of a player of not even wanting to interview or work out a player . In the NHL it’s very common.

When the player is selected and the player is asked if had an idea , often would reply “not at all, that team never come see me , didn’t interview me . I was sure they were not interested but obviously I was wrong …”.


In the same time while I am saying I do realize and understand why teams or players may want to hid it .

I am just thinking the narrative could go both ways

Its better to not make them public

[OakleyDokely]

In no particular order these guys will go top 8:

1. Flagg
2. Harper
3. Bailey
4. VJ
5. Johnson
6. Fears
7. Kon
8. Maluach

Which means we'll be left with: Kasp, Demin, Essengue, Traore, CMB, Newell, Queen, Bryant

Not ideal.

We don't know that for sure. We also don't know whats ideal. Its a waiting game just enjoy the ride.

I'm pretty sure at least one of those guys will be there at 9, if not 2 or 3 of them. There are usually some surprises inside the top 10 because not every team thinks like the media mocks.

I remember the 2016 NBA draft when everyone said it was an 8 man draft and when Chriss went 8th, people started to panac since the Raps held 9th. It ended up being a franchise defining draft for the Raps getting Siakam, Poeltl and VV out of it.

This draft has a good crop of players all the way down to the teens and some of the best players that eventually come from this draft will be drafted outside the top 10.

[Psubs]

Carter Bryant is only a year younger than Rasheer and is such a bigger developmental project. Give me Rasheer all day

Draft both.

[Thaddy]

In no particular order these guys will go top 8:

1. Flagg
2. Harper
3. Bailey
4. VJ
5. Johnson
6. Fears
7. Kon
8. Maluach

Which means we'll be left with: Kasp, Demin, Essengue, Traore, CMB, Newell, Queen, Bryant

Not ideal.

We don't know that for sure. We also don't know whats ideal. Its a waiting game just enjoy the ride.

I'm pretty sure at least one of those guys will be there at 9, if not 2 or 3 of them. There are usually some surprises inside the top 10 because not every team thinks like the media mocks.

I remember the 2016 NBA draft when everyone said it was an 8 man draft and when Chriss went 8th, people started to panac since the Raps held 9th. It ended up being a franchise defining draft for the Raps getting Siakam, Poeltl and VV out of it.

This draft has a good crop of players all the way down to the teens and some of the best players that eventually come from this draft will be drafted outside the top 10.

Out of the group that was listed I would throw Fleming in there as well. I would really doubt none of them pan out, there's a solid amount of skill there.

[WuTang_CMB]

*not based on any intel

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[Psubs]

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There you go, Tre Johnson at #3. I still think he might be better than Harper.

Fleming and Bryant both in the lotto.

I think Minnesota goes with Nolan Traore at #17.

I think Indiana goes with Danny Wolf at #23.

OKC I think take Cedric Coward at #24 and trade Nikola Topic , Isaiah Joe, Aaron Wiggins, Kenrich William, Ousmane Dieng for KD.

PG SGA - Cason - DillonJones
SG JalenW - Dort - CC
SF KG - Caruso - JalenW
PF Chet - KG - minFA
C Hartenstein - Chet - Jaylin

That's scary!

The Clippers should take Pettiford at #30.

PG Pettiford/Dunn
SG Harden Batum?
SF Powell - Bogdanovic
PF Kawhi - Jones
C Zubac - Eubanks

Raptors at #39 should be able to draft one of Kalkbrenner, Yang, or Markovic.

[OakleyDokely]

Kon vs Dick.


Combine Measurements:

Dick: 6'6.25 w/o shoes, 6'8.75 wingspan, 204 lbs
Kon: 6'5.00 w/o shoes, 6'6.25 wingspan, 219 lbs

Draft Year:

Dick: 32.7 MIN, 14.1 PPG, 5.1 REB, 1.7 AST, 1.4 STL, 0.3 BLK, .442 FG, .403 3PT, .854 FT, .581 TS, 20.5 USG, 7.7 BPM
Kon: 30.5 MIN, 14.4 PPG, 4.0 REB, 2.7 AST, 1.0 STL, 0.2 BLK, .479 FG, .406 3PT, .914 FT, .642 TS, 21.4 USG, 10.8 BPM

[Raptorfan2012]

3 months ago still a good breakdown

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Not gonna lie, his second half of the season turned me off so much but if Masai drafts him I'll throw all my doubts out the window.

I definitely see Kasp as a possibility esp if Khaman is off the board. We can use a big playmaking guard next to IQ. Kasp was considered a potential top 5 before his injury. Still a very talented guy who can create offense. Def still a top 10 worth prospect IMO.

[djsunyc]

3 months ago still a good breakdown

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;ab_channel=NoCeilingsNBA

Not gonna lie, his second half of the season turned me off so much but if Masai drafts him I'll throw all my doubts out the window.

I definitely see Kasp as a possibility esp if Khaman is off the board. We can use a big playmaking guard next to IQ. Kasp was considered a potential top 5 before his injury. Still a very talented guy who can create offense. Def still a top 10 worth prospect IMO.

does kasp every dribble to attack or does he always take the step back jumper because he can't get by his guy?

[Dalek]

So Newell shoots a lot of 3's and is under 30% at college distance so he's actually hurting the team. Moving back in distance is likely going to be worse. Unlikely he can make the leap like a Noah Clowney.

Asa actually started the year really poor - something like 3-19 and then he went for 33% after. I think volume is important because he isn't afraid to get shots up. You have to evaluate his misses but his shots were in the flow of the offense. Plus he had a good high school shooting from distance (43% in last year at Monteverde).

I do think he makes a successful jump. His pre draft film you can see he has a quick release and comfortable form. Really with Newell you have a very good floor and if he hits on threes you have starter potential like a PJ Washington.

My knock on him is his wingspan which is just 7 feet. He is a very good run and jump athlete but it does make you concerned about his effectiveness as a rim protector at the next level.

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[Psubs]

does kasp every dribble to attack or does he always take the step back jumper because he can't get by his guy?

He can't get past his guy without the PnR. He's like the opposite of Fears.

[Psubs]

So Newell shoots a lot of 3's and is under 30% at college distance so he's actually hurting the team. Moving back in distance is likely going to be worse. Unlikely he can make the leap like a Noah Clowney.

Asa actually started the year really poor - something like 3-19 and then he went for 33% after. I think volume is important because he isn't afraid to get shots up. You have to evaluate his misses but his shots were in the flow of the offense. Plus he had a good high school shooting from distance (43% in last year at Monteverde).

I do think he makes a successful jump. His pre draft film you can see he has a quick release and comfortable form. Really with Newell you have a very good floor and if he hits on threes you have starter potential like a PJ Washington.

My knock on him is his wingspan which is just 7 feet. He is a very good run and jump athlete but it does make you concerned about his effectiveness as a rim protector at the next level.

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Ya, he just seems like average to slightly above average in everything and you'll probably have to pay him $25-30 million and he won't really move the needle. Maybe like a Julius Randle level player.

[WuTang_CMB]

As of today, I think Raptors are picking one of if available:

Fears, Maluach, Carter Bryant, Jakocionos

[DG88]

*not based on any intel

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Ace Bailey is the 1 prospect that I feel will drop