Amir Johnson in decline? Look again.

[neurotik]

he's a nice hardworking player, problem is hes too injury prone

Really?

He's missed 11 games in the past 4 seasons.

LeBron James has missed 16 games in the past 4 seasons.

Is LeBron James "too injury prone"?

This is a misleading stat. I mean seriously, Hank, are you gonna sit there and tell me Amir's health has not affected his play these past couple of years?

He may not have missed many games last year but his ankles and perhaps other nagging injuries that he played through impacted his effectiveness in the latter part of the season.

[hankscorpioLA]

he's a nice hardworking player, problem is hes too injury prone

Really?

He's missed 11 games in the past 4 seasons.

LeBron James has missed 16 games in the past 4 seasons.

Is LeBron James "too injury prone"?

This is a misleading stat. I mean seriously, Hank, are you gonna sit there and tell me Amir's health has not affected his play these past couple of years?

I am sure they have. Many players have to play through pain. Steve Nash has played with back pain for years. Of course it impacted his play. But did it make him a bad player? Not until he was very late in his 30s.

As long as he plays the game and produces, I am not overly concerned. If he was missing significant chunks of time, that would be a different story.

He may not have missed many games last year but his ankles and perhaps other nagging injuries that he played through impacted his effectiveness in the latter part of the season.

Indeed it did. And that is why, as I posted above, he spent a gopod chunk of the offseason working on techniques and strategies to protect it in the future.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/03/ra ... nky-ankles

Always on the look out for a way to improve, Johnson was directed to a training centre in Santa Barbara this summer that goes by the name P3.

The P3 stands for the ‘Peak Performance Project.’

For Johnson it was a means to identify and avoid what steps were likely to lead to rolled ankles and what he could do to avoid them.

“It came down to where I just had to move either my heel slightly one way or my ankle slightly another to prevent me rolling my ankle. If I take a step this way maybe it has me turning my ankle but if I turn the ankle and step this way it prevents it from rolling. So I have been working on this all summer pretty much and changed the way I move or take different steps.”

According to Johnson he made two visits to the training centre in Santa Barbara. He was there for a month and then returned for another stint later in the summer.

So I go back to the question I originally posed.

Is Amir Johnson in decline?

The stats are consistent. He is still out there every night. And he has taken steps to address the one potential long-term issue that could derail the rest of his career. We will have to wait and see if it helps him hold up through the rest of the season, but so far, the results are encouraging.

At this point in time, I see no reason to believe that he will not continue to provide similar production for the next 4-5 years.

[hankscorpioLA]

Draymond Green (SF & PF) $13 to 14 million GS unlikely to match. I don't see the benefit in resigning Amir to a 9 to 10 million contract.

Really?

Do you realize that Draymond Green and Amir Johnson have almost identical per-36 stats?

Or that Draymond Green has a PER of 15.1 compared to 16.3 for Amir?

And yet, you would pay Draymond Green 55% more than Amir Johnson.

Why?

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I don't think he is broken down, but I would hope we get another stretch big, so we can distribute our minutes better.
His lack of range may be limited to space the floor on the offense, so I hope he comes off the bench with Patterson to round out the bigs.

Yes Indeedy, ole indeed thinks we need to bench amir because we need a STRETCH BIG in THE STARTERS ROLE. Bargnani may have played his way out of the nba, but stretch bigs will never leave the special place deep inside indeed's heart.

[neurotik]

Really?

He's missed 11 games in the past 4 seasons.

LeBron James has missed 16 games in the past 4 seasons.

Is LeBron James "too injury prone"?

This is a misleading stat. I mean seriously, Hank, are you gonna sit there and tell me Amir's health has not affected his play these past couple of years?

I am sure they have. Many players have to play through pain. Steve Nash has played with back pain for years. Of course it impacted his play. But did it make him a bad player? Not until he was very late in his 30s.

As long as he plays the game and produces, I am not overly concerned. If he was missing significant chunks of time, that would be a different story.

He may not have missed many games last year but his ankles and perhaps other nagging injuries that he played through impacted his effectiveness in the latter part of the season.

Indeed it did. And that is why, as I posted above, he spent a gopod chunk of the offseason working on techniques and strategies to protect it in the future.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/10/03/ra ... nky-ankles

Always on the look out for a way to improve, Johnson was directed to a training centre in Santa Barbara this summer that goes by the name P3.

The P3 stands for the ‘Peak Performance Project.’

For Johnson it was a means to identify and avoid what steps were likely to lead to rolled ankles and what he could do to avoid them.

“It came down to where I just had to move either my heel slightly one way or my ankle slightly another to prevent me rolling my ankle. If I take a step this way maybe it has me turning my ankle but if I turn the ankle and step this way it prevents it from rolling. So I have been working on this all summer pretty much and changed the way I move or take different steps.”

According to Johnson he made two visits to the training centre in Santa Barbara. He was there for a month and then returned for another stint later in the summer.

So I go back to the question I originally posed.

Is Amir Johnson in decline?

The stats are consistent. He is still out there every night. And he has taken steps to address the one potential long-term issue that could derail the rest of his career. We will have to wait and see if it helps him hold up through the rest of the season, but so far, the results are encouraging.

At this point in time, I see no reason to believe that he will not continue to provide similar production for the next 4-5 years.

Yeah, I saw the article, Hank. It basically says Amir is learning to play with more efficient techniques because his body can't handle him moving the way he used to. I mean I understand that the movement techniques are helpful, but my point is it illustrates that he needs it now where as 3 or 4 years ago, when he his body was stronger, the team wasn't even looking into these techniques for him because there wasn't a problem with nagging injuries.

As for him being able to sustain these number for the next 4-5 years, I guess we're gonna have to wait and see.

[hankscorpioLA]

Yeah, I saw the article, Hank. It basically says Amir is learning to play with more efficient techniques because his body can't handle him moving the way he used to. I mean I understand that the movement techniques are helpful, but my point is it illustrates that he needs it now where as 3 or 4 years ago, when he his body was stronger, the team wasn't even looking into these techniques for him because there wasn't a problem with nagging injuries.

I don't know if that's all accurate. He's had ankle problems for most of his career. I think a big difference now is organizational. In the past, there did not seem to be the same focus on offseason work and conditioning. Now, whether its this or Jonas working on his running or Demar working on his left hand, it seems like everyone is putting in work to improve their weaknesses. Even just the decision to go to the Fortius Center for training camp signals a new approach.

In terms of the injury, to me, it suggests that the problem is not structural, but biomechanical, which means it can be corrected.

As for him being able to sustain these number for the next 4-5 years, I guess we're gonna have to wait and see.

Sure. I am just saying that right now, there is really no reason to believe he can't.

[neurotik]

Yeah, I saw the article, Hank. It basically says Amir is learning to play with more efficient techniques because his body can't handle him moving the way he used to. I mean I understand that the movement techniques are helpful, but my point is it illustrates that he needs it now where as 3 or 4 years ago, when he his body was stronger, the team wasn't even looking into these techniques for him because there wasn't a problem with nagging injuries.

I don't know if that's all accurate. He's had ankle problems for most of his career. I think a big difference now is organizational. In the past, there did not seem to be the same focus on offseason work and conditioning. Now, whether its this or Jonas working on his running or Demar working on his left hand, it seems like everyone is putting in work to improve their weaknesses. Even just the decision to go to the Fortius Center for training camp signals a new approach.

In terms of the injury, to me, it suggests that the problem is not structural, but biomechanical, which means it can be corrected.

As for him being able to sustain these number for the next 4-5 years, I guess we're gonna have to wait and see.

Sure. I am just saying that right now, there is really no reason to believe he can't.

You're probably right about the organization looking into more health science approaches to help their player recently. I don't remember the Raps don't anything like that before either. But that won't change my opinion of Amir's body wearing down some. He still has good years in him but he's not as explosive as he was in his mid twenties IMO. I see him as a Udonis Haslem type player for the raptors. Haslem was a huge part of the Heat team for many years but he eventually took a lesser role. I don't think Amir is there yet but I don't think he has another 4-5 years at this level of production. But I am a bit of cynic.

[CoachJReturns]

From a numbers perspective, I think the rebounding numbers are significant, whether the OP agrees or not. The other stat, which I am having trouble finding, is how few screens Amir is setting compared to last year. There was a write up on this recently. I would think that if his health was not a major concern, he would be getting a lot of pick and roles run for him due to his great efficiency. This hasn't been the case, however. I do think Amir is playing well, but I still feel he is slowly declining and we need to draft/sign/trade for someone to take the starting role. Besides, Jonas is only 22 and I'd prefer we find him a long term frontcourt partner. Sullinger is the guy I keep thinking of, but I'm sure there are others who may be more available. Just my opinion.

[B00Yah]

Really?

He's missed 11 games in the past 4 seasons.

LeBron James has missed 16 games in the past 4 seasons.

Is LeBron James "too injury prone"?

He's certainly an injury risk going forward tho.

Prove it.

Best response ever! #winning

[kwamebargnani]

Really?

He's missed 11 games in the past 4 seasons.

LeBron James has missed 16 games in the past 4 seasons.

Is LeBron James "too injury prone"?

He's certainly an injury risk going forward tho.

Prove it.

He's a big who's been in the league forever, and although he didn't miss many games, he did have issues with his knee and ankles. What's so hard to understand?

[kwamebargnani]

He's certainly an injury risk going forward tho.

Prove it.

Best response ever! #winning

Most useless response ever!

[Lowrys Chode]

He's certainly an injury risk going forward tho.

Prove it.

He's a big who's been in the league forever, and although he didn't miss many games, he did have issues with his knee and ankles. What's so hard to understand?

If he's had such severe issues, how come he's been so durable?

[cammac]

Draymond Green (SF & PF) $13 to 14 million GS unlikely to match. I don't see the benefit in resigning Amir to a 9 to 10 million contract.

Really?

Do you realize that Draymond Green and Amir Johnson have almost identical per-36 stats?

Or that Draymond Green has a PER of 15.1 compared to 16.3 for Amir?

And yet, you would pay Draymond Green 55% more than Amir Johnson.

Why?

Draymond Green is younger room to grow , better defensively, plays SF & PF, for me he looks like he can takeoff become Jimmy Butler.
Amir is declining reality youth over age.

[hankscorpioLA]

He's certainly an injury risk going forward tho.

Prove it.

He's a big who's been in the league forever, and although he didn't miss many games, he did have issues with his knee and ankles. What's so hard to understand?

What you said was that he was "injury prone". I showed that wasn't the case.

Then you said "he's an injury risk going forward". You were asked to prove it and your response was basically to say that he's an NBA player.

The bottom line is that either he has fixed the issues that were causing him problems or he hasn't. If he has, then he is no more of an injury risk than any other NBA player. If he has not, then we should start to see the evidence of that soon. But so far, the prognosis looks positive. He had a little bit of soreness at the start of the season, but since then it doesn't look like its been an issue.

[Rhythm043]

[Tweet][/Tweet]

he's a nice hardworking player, problem is hes too injury prone

Is he though? I equate injury prone to missing games. By my count Amir has missed less than 20 games total as a Raptor.

[grumpwalter]

If the right trade comes up though, we can't pass up the offer, he is not an untouchable player.

[hankscorpioLA]

Draymond Green (SF & PF) $13 to 14 million GS unlikely to match. I don't see the benefit in resigning Amir to a 9 to 10 million contract.

Really?

Do you realize that Draymond Green and Amir Johnson have almost identical per-36 stats?

Or that Draymond Green has a PER of 15.1 compared to 16.3 for Amir?

And yet, you would pay Draymond Green 55% more than Amir Johnson.

Why?

Draymond Green is younger room to grow , better defensively,

I'm sorry....I thought for a second there you said he was better defensively than Amir Johnson.

Oh wait...you did.

plays SF & PF,

Actually, he pretty much plays SF exclusively since he's only 6'7".

for me he looks like he can takeoff become Jimmy Butler.

Why is it that when one player unexpectedly shows a dramatic improvement, suddenly people expect everyone to start doing it.

Amir is declining

Please see....um....the rest of this thread.

reality youth over age.

Draymond Green is three years younger than Amir.

As for "room to grow", I agree. Maybe if he keeps playing like he is, one day he might be as good as Amir Johnson.

[cammac]

Really?

Do you realize that Draymond Green and Amir Johnson have almost identical per-36 stats?

Or that Draymond Green has a PER of 15.1 compared to 16.3 for Amir?

And yet, you would pay Draymond Green 55% more than Amir Johnson.

Why?

Draymond Green is younger room to grow , better defensively,

I'm sorry....I thought for a second there you said he was better defensively than Amir Johnson.

Oh wait...you did.

plays SF & PF,

Actually, he pretty much plays SF exclusively since he's only 6'7".

for me he looks like he can takeoff become Jimmy Butler.

Why is it that when one player unexpectedly shows a dramatic improvement, suddenly people expect everyone to start doing it.

Amir is declining

Please see....um....the rest of this thread.

reality youth over age.

Draymond Green is three years younger than Amir.

As for "room to grow", I agree. Maybe if he keeps playing like he is, one day he might be as good as Amir Johnson.

My exact sentiments Green is a SF over a PF and SFs are more valuable than PFs. Though with Lee out he has played PF as well and at a high level. Amir is good but not great.
Would a PF threesome of Ed Davis, Patterson, Lavoy Allen with green and Jj able to play part time be worse or better than Amir, Patterson & Hansbrough?
Raptors team next year
PG Lowry (Vasquez?)
SG Demar, Williams, Ross
SF Green, JJ, Ross, Bruno
PF Ed. Davis, Patterson, Lavoy Allen
C Jonas, (?), Bebe

[Rapcity_11]

Actually, he pretty much plays SF exclusively since he's only 6'7".

This is wildly inaccurate. Green plays pretty much only PF (look at the GS lineup data). He's also a tremoundous defender.

[hankscorpioLA]

Actually, he pretty much plays SF exclusively since he's only 6'7".

This is wildly inaccurate. Green plays pretty much only PF (look at the GS lineup data). He's also a tremoundous defender.

To be fair, its not so much that he plays power forward as it is that Golden State starts two small forwards in him and Harrison Barnes.

And I didn't say he wasn't a tremendous defender. But he's not in the same class as Amir. At least not yet.

But all of that is secondary. What I don't get is why someone would pay $15 million to Green but not $9 million to Amir.

Green is good. He may even one day be better than Amir. But he's not $6 million better.