Amir Johnsons Value: What is he worth/would you retain him?

[Raptolicism]

Wow, apparently I am being pretty harsh w Amir.

I didn't even vote b/c I think that $5-6M/year is too high for him right now.

With all the injuries and the potential surgery, I was thinking that Amir at $3M/year makes sense for us.


With that said, I LOVE the way that Amir has embraced Toronto and how hard he plays and lots of other stuff, but I am trying to be objective.

Yup. I agree.

After the dust settles, this team only has ~$16.5M in capspace this summer. We still need a young, starting quality SF and a young starting quality PF. Then, we need a bench 7 footer and a new back-up PG. Needless to say, that money simply isn't enough.

That being said, we need to secure our STARTING LINEUP before we worry ourselves about the bench. If we solve these issues via trade and we have extra money left over, I'd offer $3M per max or he can take the vets minimum if he wants to be in Toronto that badly. Other than that, it isn't worth it. We have younger, healthier and more versatile Patrick Patterson so there's absolutely no point paying him the ridiculous amounts of money everyone is suggesting.

The poll suggests 5-7 M in overwhelming fashion. How is that ridiculous? The average NBA salary is like $5-6M is going to be climbing, fast.

$3M is **** ridiculous.

It's like people don't even pay attention to free agency.

Wow, sorry to upset you there big fella.

I pay some attention to what players get paid in FA, and I think that given the injuries and surgery potential, he is worth around $3M/year to the Raps.

[Rapcity_11]

Yup. I agree.

After the dust settles, this team only has ~$16.5M in capspace this summer. We still need a young, starting quality SF and a young starting quality PF. Then, we need a bench 7 footer and a new back-up PG. Needless to say, that money simply isn't enough.

That being said, we need to secure our STARTING LINEUP before we worry ourselves about the bench. If we solve these issues via trade and we have extra money left over, I'd offer $3M per max or he can take the vets minimum if he wants to be in Toronto that badly. Other than that, it isn't worth it. We have younger, healthier and more versatile Patrick Patterson so there's absolutely no point paying him the ridiculous amounts of money everyone is suggesting.

The poll suggests 5-7 M in overwhelming fashion. How is that ridiculous? The average NBA salary is like $5-6M is going to be climbing, fast.

$3M is **** ridiculous.

It's like people don't even pay attention to free agency.

Wow, sorry to upset you there big fella.

I pay some attention to what players get paid in FA, and I think that given the injuries and surgery potential, he is worth around $3M/year to the Raps.

I'm not upset, at all. I think it's hilarious how many people have no clue how free agency works.

[Rapsfan07]

The poll suggests 5-7 M in overwhelming fashion. How is that ridiculous? The average NBA salary is like $5-6M is going to be climbing, fast.

$3M is **** ridiculous.

It's like people don't even pay attention to free agency.

Wow, sorry to upset you there big fella.

I pay some attention to what players get paid in FA, and I think that given the injuries and surgery potential, he is worth around $3M/year to the Raps.

I'm not upset, at all. I think it's hilarious how many people have no clue how free agency works.

I have a very good idea how it works. That doesn't change the facts.

Amir is not a starter and we have a bench guy already. So what he's worth (according to skill) and what he's worth to the Raptors (due to our cap situation, player rotation and his health concerns) isn't and shouldn't be the same thing. He can take less than what he's worth and stay here at home or he can have his $5-7M elsewhere.

Really is as simple as that.

[Rapsfan07]

Amir floor or minimum salary is the MLE for 4years (with most likely player exception). That is roughly ~$23M/4yr. Most contending teams would easily offer that. He would be stupid to take because assuming he strikes out with teams with cap space, he would be best served signing 2yr contact with player option and becoming FA next year with the huge increase in cap.

Masai would be stupid to let Amir walk. Letting assets walk for nothing is crazy. You say we need upgrade at PF, hell we could use upgrade at all positions. The question is how do you do it? Reducing your assets is not the way. There is no realistic replacement for Amir in the FA market.

About a two years ago, I was saying that Amir should have been traded. He could have easily fetched a first round pick at that point. Everyone said I was crazy.

Now, it looks like he'll be walking for free, getting a big offer from Masai to stay or a S&T for a lot less than a first round pick.

[deeps6x]

Wow, looked at the poll and I'm shocked. He is best used as a backup PF. Your 7th man if you wish. He can no longer be relied on to be your starter PF. So sign him for $14m/2yrs and flip him to someone desperate in Jan/Feb for a first in the low 20s or a late first and a second.

And I thought I was low balling him, despite the cap/tax going up so much next year and the year after.

He is easily worth $27M/3yrs if his health could be counted on. But it is VERY CLEAR from watching his ankle go out over and over and over again over the past two years, that his health WILL FAIL HIM again.

But some of you (most of you) really think he is only worth $5-6M/yr? Less than 2Pat and his bargain deal? Wow again.

[knickerbocker2k2]

To give some people some reference on how bigs get paid, here the league salaries for PF/C. This doesn't include players on rookie scale as those salaries are fixed. Only including players who play >24min & 40+ games.

Max ($15M>):

Chris Bosh,Blake Griffin,Zach Randolph,LaMarcus Aldridge,Marc Gasol,Kevin Love,Brook Lopez,Roy Hibbert,Tyson Chandler, DeMarcus Cousins

$10M-$15m:

Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Nene, Derrick Favors, Joakim Noah, Serge Ibaka, Al Horford, David West, DeAndre Jordan, Kenneth Faried, Marcin Gortat, Tim Duncan

$7M-$9M:

Paul Millsap, Jordan Hill, Channing Frye, Ryan Anderson, Omer Asik, Taj Gibson, Boris Diaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Amir Johnson

$5M-$6m:

Robin Lopez, Jason Thompson, Patrick Patterson

There are no bigs who play >24min who get paid below $5M. Amir has being starter and key contributor to team that has won 48/49 games. He is UFA. Cap is expected to explode and players salaries will increase by ~30%. In what world does he get paid $3M ?

If we can get him for $7M-9M range, that would be a win because that actually would be a paycut for Amir when the cap increases next year.

[Scase]

I was thinking around 6-7 but, I'm also the person who thinks just cause the cap raises that doesn't mean the same players should be paid more than before for identical or worse performance.

He's declined quite a bit and is clearly a shell of his former self.

How can somebody be a shell of their former selves with essentially the same production?

Those were two separate statements. I don't like the cap serving no purpose other than to pay the same players more for identical performance.

And also Amir has declined quite a bit over the years.

[Rapcity_11]

I was thinking around 6-7 but, I'm also the person who thinks just cause the cap raises that doesn't mean the same players should be paid more than before for identical or worse performance.

He's declined quite a bit and is clearly a shell of his former self.

How can somebody be a shell of their former selves with essentially the same production?

Those were two separate statements. I don't like the cap serving no purpose other than to pay the same players more for identical performance.

And also Amir has declined quite a bit over the years.

Ok fine, how can somebody have declined quite a bit with essentially the same production?

And it doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's the way NBA salaries are going to work and what the market will dictate.

[Rapcity_11]

I have a very good idea how it works. That doesn't change the facts.

Amir is not a starter and we have a bench guy already. So what he's worth (according to skill) and what he's worth to the Raptors (due to our cap situation, player rotation and his health concerns) isn't and shouldn't be the same thing. He can take less than what he's worth and stay here at home or he can have his $5-7M elsewhere.

Really is as simple as that.

It's already been explained that Amir is a PF/C who plays very well next to PP. The fact that PP is locked up for 2 years is essentially irrelevant.

Also, the 5-7 M is already a discount.

[team edward]

Give Amir a 3 year deal, with
- a max signing bonus
- deal is conditional on getting the surgery this summer
- 2nd year 25% of salary conditional on availability to play (i.e. not injured), with some specific stipulations about what constitutes "injured" with respect to his ankles, if that's even possible (i.e. ankle strength tested in an objective manner)
- 3rd year 50% non-guaranteed

Signing bonus is spread over the 3 years for cap purposes, but is a tradeoff for the 3rd year option and 2nd year injury condition.

[vado]

I'd try to sign him to 8 million / 3 year contract. I would definitely not go over that term. Maybe offer him an extra mill or 2 depending on what happens at the draft and in free agency.

[Rapsfan07]

I have a very good idea how it works. That doesn't change the facts.

Amir is not a starter and we have a bench guy already. So what he's worth (according to skill) and what he's worth to the Raptors (due to our cap situation, player rotation and his health concerns) isn't and shouldn't be the same thing. He can take less than what he's worth and stay here at home or he can have his $5-7M elsewhere.

Really is as simple as that.

It's already been explained that Amir is a PF/C who plays very well next to PP. The fact that PP is locked up for 2 years is essentially irrelevant.

Also, the 5-7 M is already a discount.

Then I guess it's a no from me

[Scase]

How can somebody be a shell of their former selves with essentially the same production?

Those were two separate statements. I don't like the cap serving no purpose other than to pay the same players more for identical performance.

And also Amir has declined quite a bit over the years.

Ok fine, how can somebody have declined quite a bit with essentially the same production?

And it doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's the way NBA salaries are going to work and what the market will dictate.

Uhhh maybe you need to re-read the first post....

[RedX]

Despite of many here wanting Amir to give us a deal which he doesn't have to by any means he's worth 8mill.

[Rapsfan07]

To give some people some reference on how bigs get paid, here the league salaries for PF/C. This doesn't include players on rookie scale as those salaries are fixed. Only including players who play >24min & 40+ games.

Max ($15M>):

Chris Bosh,Blake Griffin,Zach Randolph,LaMarcus Aldridge,Marc Gasol,Kevin Love,Brook Lopez,Roy Hibbert,Tyson Chandler, DeMarcus Cousins

$10M-$15m:

Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Nene, Derrick Favors, Joakim Noah, Serge Ibaka, Al Horford, David West, DeAndre Jordan, Kenneth Faried, Marcin Gortat, Tim Duncan

$7M-$9M:

Paul Millsap, Jordan Hill, Channing Frye, Ryan Anderson, Omer Asik, Taj Gibson, Boris Diaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Amir Johnson

$5M-$6m:

Robin Lopez, Jason Thompson, Patrick Patterson

There are no bigs who play >24min who get paid below $5M. Amir has being starter and key contributor to team that has won 48/49 games. He is UFA. Cap is expected to explode and players salaries will increase by ~30%. In what world does he get paid $3M ?

If we can get him for $7M-9M range, that would be a win because that actually would be a paycut for Amir when the cap increases next year.

Funny. All the guys you mentioned making more than $6M per are starters. Actually, even Lopez was a starter; he just happened to blossom on this current deal. I'd say when you consider what Johnson's role will be, Thompson and Patterson are the most accurate examples.

What's funnier is Patterson already plays back up PF for us. So why would we be spending an additional $5-6M for another back up PF? Brandon Wright will be available and can play PF/C without injury concerns and would likely come for either the same amount or slightly cheaper.

[TheGoodDoctor]

I would not give him anything over $5M/year (3 years) or let him walk because he's already breaking down.

In a couple of years he's either going to need to alter his playing style or see his injuries increase.

[OAKLEY_2]

To give some people some reference on how bigs get paid, here the league salaries for PF/C. This doesn't include players on rookie scale as those salaries are fixed. Only including players who play >24min & 40+ games.

Max ($15M>):

Chris Bosh,Blake Griffin,Zach Randolph,LaMarcus Aldridge,Marc Gasol,Kevin Love,Brook Lopez,Roy Hibbert,Tyson Chandler, DeMarcus Cousins

$10M-$15m:

Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Nene, Derrick Favors, Joakim Noah, Serge Ibaka, Al Horford, David West, DeAndre Jordan, Kenneth Faried, Marcin Gortat, Tim Duncan

$7M-$9M:

Paul Millsap, Jordan Hill, Channing Frye, Ryan Anderson, Omer Asik, Taj Gibson, Boris Diaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Amir Johnson

$5M-$6m:

Robin Lopez, Jason Thompson, Patrick Patterson

There are no bigs who play >24min who get paid below $5M. Amir has being starter and key contributor to team that has won 48/49 games. He is UFA. Cap is expected to explode and players salaries will increase by ~30%. In what world does he get paid $3M ?

If we can get him for $7M-9M range, that would be a win because that actually would be a paycut for Amir when the cap increases next year.

Funny. All the guys you mentioned making more than $6M per are starters. Actually, even Lopez was a starter; he just happened to blossom on this current deal. I'd say when you consider what Johnson's role will be, Thompson and Patterson are the most accurate examples.

What's funnier is Patterson already plays back up PF for us. So why would we be spending an additional $5-6M for another back up PF? Brandon Wright will be available and can play PF/C without injury concerns and would likely come for either the same amount or slightly cheaper.

Never say never but they cannot afford to tie up funds in the 6 plus range with the current state of his ankles. That would be a prescription for an Alvin Williams situation. Hans, the 2015 and/or free agent or traded for big would be better even if it sounds sacrilegious to say that.

[Liberal]

I think if Amir takes a season off to get surgeries n get healthy he could be worth upwards of $10M+ but at this stage I wouldnt give him mire than $7M on any team and $5M if its the Raptors cause id want him playing in a Psycho T role for Toronto.

Edit - If Amir was willing to sit a season to get healthy id say he is worth more on the Raptors, probably $8M+

[Hyperglide]

Didn't vote cause we shouldn't retain him. He's one of the worst starting PF's in the league, is always injured and is almost 30 and has had a ton of mileage on his body (10 years in the league) and bad ankles. He's a warrior and a class act but it's time to move on. He's one of our core guys and he's not getting any better. He is what he is.

[Rapcity_11]

Those were two separate statements. I don't like the cap serving no purpose other than to pay the same players more for identical performance.

And also Amir has declined quite a bit over the years.

Ok fine, how can somebody have declined quite a bit with essentially the same production?

And it doesn't matter if you don't like it, that's the way NBA salaries are going to work and what the market will dictate.

Uhhh maybe you need to re-read the first post....

No idea what you're talking about.