JV with a whopping 47 pts allowed vs. Phoenix

[Rapcity_11]

Just a cpl weeks ago VanWest was applauded for his thread about JVs influence in Wins (or something to that effect), a cpl weeks later hes just another JV "hater". RGM in a nutshell.

Clearly you haven't been paying attention. VanWest has been bashing JV in every thread and any topic for ahwile now. For me he's lost all credibility when you do that.

Nah, dude is about as smart and objective as it gets on this board.

[RaptorsLife]

Ridiculous thread. I'm a jv hater but if you need to do all this research 2 hours after the game to dis credit JV. You gotta reevaluate you're life

This is coming from someone has 30 000 posts in almost 3 years lol

Disagree completely - he puts in some time into writing up an actual valuable piece of original analysis here which is infinitely better use of his time (and my time reading) than the 30 000 low quality posts you've made.

These kinds of threads are exactly the type of thing we need to encourage, and the type of original content that this board is seeing less and less of.

There's games where JV plays awful yesterday was not that night at all.

You can do this about derozan and Lowry the amount of penetration they give up.

[Reg00]

There is no way that in film its not blatantly obvious how far back he is going off that action. Maybe they are making a judgement based on foot speed? With such a quick footed shotblocker behind him I wouldn't mind him challenging more.

Also it should be noted that falling back on those is daring teams to take the "modern" NBA shot of death, the long two.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Different target of discussion, but did anyone else think it was stupid to have OG guard Ullis? The guy is only in the league because he can get anywhere he wants to on the court. I don't think there was one position possession where OG forced him into something he didn't want to do.

[Rapcity_11]

Ridiculous thread. I'm a jv hater but if you need to do all this research 2 hours after the game to dis credit JV. You gotta reevaluate you're life

This is coming from someone has 30 000 posts in almost 3 years lol

Disagree completely - he puts in some time into writing up an actual valuable piece of original analysis here which is infinitely better use of his time (and my time reading) than the 30 000 low quality posts you've made.

These kinds of threads are exactly the type of thing we need to encourage, and the type of original content that this board is seeing less and less of.

There's games where JV plays awful yesterday was not that night at all.

You can do this about derozan and Lowry the amount of penetration they give up.

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

[verysalt]

Ridiculous thread. I'm a jv hater but if you need to do all this research 2 hours after the game to dis credit JV. You gotta reevaluate you're life

This is coming from someone has 30 000 posts in almost 3 years lol

Disagree completely - he puts in some time into writing up an actual valuable piece of original analysis here which is infinitely better use of his time (and my time reading) than the 30 000 low quality posts you've made.

These kinds of threads are exactly the type of thing we need to encourage, and the type of original content that this board is seeing less and less of.

Booo

No wonder that more and more people are leaving RealGm and going to reddit. RealGm is losing its value full speed. Only Raptors and Knics are still hanging on because they can trash talk without being downvoted to disappearance.

[RaptorsLife]

Disagree completely - he puts in some time into writing up an actual valuable piece of original analysis here which is infinitely better use of his time (and my time reading) than the 30 000 low quality posts you've made.

These kinds of threads are exactly the type of thing we need to encourage, and the type of original content that this board is seeing less and less of.

There's games where JV plays awful yesterday was not that night at all.

You can do this about derozan and Lowry the amount of penetration they give up.

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

I'll do it for the playoffs. Sure.

[Kabookalu]

Didn't watch the game, only the highlights, but there was one play where Jonas sat far back on the pick and roll as usual, and the Phoenix guard drove to the rim on him...and had an easy lay up anyways.

[verysalt]

Didn't watch the game, only the highlights, but there was one play where Jonas sat far back on the pick and roll as usual, and the Phoenix guard drove to the rim on him...and had an easy lay up anyways.

And due time what our guards were doing ?

[pbj]

Ridiculous thread. I'm a jv hater but if you need to do all this research 2 hours after the game to dis credit JV. You gotta reevaluate you're life

This is coming from someone has 30 000 posts in almost 3 years lol

Disagree completely - he puts in some time into writing up an actual valuable piece of original analysis here which is infinitely better use of his time (and my time reading) than the 30 000 low quality posts you've made.

These kinds of threads are exactly the type of thing we need to encourage, and the type of original content that this board is seeing less and less of.

Booo

No wonder that more and more people are leaving RealGm and going to reddit. RealGm is losing its value full speed. Only Raptors and Knics are still hanging on because they can trash talk without being downvoted to disappearance.

I don't understand. People are leaving RealGM because I want to encourage people to do some legitimate, objective, original analysis?

You're probably right though, we would get more traffic if RGM were more like r/torontoraptors where currently..
#2 post is an 8s clip of JV hitting a 3 (and all the top comments are all memes and jokes)
#3 post is a meme
#4 post is a picture of the Suns in-arena entertainment

TONS of value there.

[verysalt]

Disagree completely - he puts in some time into writing up an actual valuable piece of original analysis here which is infinitely better use of his time (and my time reading) than the 30 000 low quality posts you've made.

These kinds of threads are exactly the type of thing we need to encourage, and the type of original content that this board is seeing less and less of.

Booo

No wonder that more and more people are leaving RealGm and going to reddit. RealGm is losing its value full speed. Only Raptors and Knics are still hanging on because they can trash talk without being downvoted to disappearance.

I don't understand. People are leaving RealGM because I want to encourage people to do some legitimate, objective, original analysis?

You're probably right though, we would get more traffic if RGM were more like r/torontoraptors where currently..
#2 post is an 8s clip of JV hitting a 3 (and all the top comments are all memes and jokes)
#3 post is a meme
#4 post is a picture of the Suns in-arena entertainment

TONS of value there.

All you do is encouraging haters to put their own analysis based on their bias perception.
At some point there was like 1/4 of page based on JV hate.

[pbj]

There's games where JV plays awful yesterday was not that night at all.

You can do this about derozan and Lowry the amount of penetration they give up.

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

I'll do it for the playoffs. Sure.

Please do and I will sticky it at the top.

I did it for Vasquez that year when we got murdered by the Wizards. Memory is a little hazy but he was solely responsible for like a 22-0 run against us due to terrible shot selection and non-existent defense.

[Kabookalu]

Didn't watch the game, only the highlights, but there was one play where Jonas sat far back on the pick and roll as usual, and the Phoenix guard drove to the rim on him...and had an easy lay up anyways.

And due time what our guards were doing ?

Watch on YouTube

4:15, play in question. Brown actually did a solid job of trying to fight over the screen. It was up to Jonas to contest the lay up and did a poor job of it.

[Anatomize]

JV still has the same basic fundamental problem he has every year(KAT has this issue too but not as bad and he's still young with a far higher athletic ceiling and b-ball IQ).

Watching him in the Clippers game in particular was atrocious, I really wished we had Poeltl out there in the end just because his understanding of when to commit to the ball handler or the roller in the pick and roll is a piece of mastery.

JV on the other hand always just sags so far back that he's caught on an island right in the middle, completely indecisive. He'd rather not commit one way or the other, and he just ends up floating, so they can get whatever they want in the sequence. It resulted in Rivers pulling up for a ton of 3's, or Teodosic getting in for mid-rangers and passes to Jordan. His inability to react in this space is too much of a liability as far as I'm concerned, because every team's basic concepts is playing through pick and roll, and being weak in this area is such a detriment that it allows teams to do whatever they want from anywhere on the floor whether inside or out.

I missed the Suns game but just watching the full game highlights, it's exactly the issue. Not only that, but when he gets posted up or driven on directly in 1 on 1 situations his contest is extremely soft, when he uses his rule of verticality well he does a good job, but other times it looks like his hands are barely up and it's an easy make. Monroe has a couple of hookshots and layups right over him near the rim where he looks like he's barely trying to contest it and not being physical enough either, he needs to take out the legs a little bit and get underneath them with his body without being too strong on it, it will limit the effectiveness of those shots.

[fouronesix22]

You have to look at the whole team and judge their defense. Lowry, Derozan (I think he did ok yesterday), JV and the bench did not play good defense. Especially because troy daniels was playing like klay thompson yesterday.

Also you wanna know why there are "Raptors Killers" seemingly in every game? Because Collectively our team is not good defensively and have become an offense first team. Its crazy how a casey led team has gone full 180 considering his philosophy.

So you cant really on blame JV especially when he was also getting buckets in a favourable matchup

[Lukeem]

Disagree completely - he puts in some time into writing up an actual valuable piece of original analysis here which is infinitely better use of his time (and my time reading) than the 30 000 low quality posts you've made.

These kinds of threads are exactly the type of thing we need to encourage, and the type of original content that this board is seeing less and less of.

There's games where JV plays awful yesterday was not that night at all.

You can do this about derozan and Lowry the amount of penetration they give up.

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

i dont think that info alone has any value... it could if you add 2 things one very easy (still time consuming) and the other time consuming and very difficult do to objectivity
1) percentages... if plays a player is involved in is responsible for 82 points that sounds bad, but if its an active defender they will be involved in more plays. what is the percentage / ppp of plays thst defender is involved in if its 82 per 100 possesions that is really good

2) % of blame that player is responsible for especially in pick and rolls. obviously the two direct defenders have responsibility but so does whoever is responsible to pick up the help (sometimes thats closest to play, sometimes its furthest, sometimes its a specific defender, sometimes its the defender of a specific offensive player all depending on the scheme)

within almost every play there is responsibility to every defender, depending on the play it might look something like this

c - 45%
pg - 30%
sg- 15%
pf- 5
sf- 5

good luck removing objectivity from that enough to make it a truly valuable measurement

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Booo

No wonder that more and more people are leaving RealGm and going to reddit. RealGm is losing its value full speed. Only Raptors and Knics are still hanging on because they can trash talk without being downvoted to disappearance.

I don't understand. People are leaving RealGM because I want to encourage people to do some legitimate, objective, original analysis?

You're probably right though, we would get more traffic if RGM were more like r/torontoraptors where currently..
#2 post is an 8s clip of JV hitting a 3 (and all the top comments are all memes and jokes)
#3 post is a meme
#4 post is a picture of the Suns in-arena entertainment

TONS of value there.

All you do is encouraging haters to put their own analysis based on their bias perception.
At some point there was like 1/4 of page based on JV hate.

First the disclaimer: I recognize that JV wasn't solely responsible for each of the below made baskets. In some cases, he was only indirectly involved, or he played solid D and just got beat by better O. Sometimes he was giving help correctly and it didn't work out...

sure sounds like pure bias and hate to me /sarcasm, or are you applying your own bias that anything critical of JV is hate and seen through a bias lens.

[Anatomize]

There's games where JV plays awful yesterday was not that night at all.

You can do this about derozan and Lowry the amount of penetration they give up.

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

i dont think that info alone has any value... it could if you add 2 things one very easy (still time consuming) and the other time consuming and very difficult do to objectivity
1) percentages... if plays a player is involved in is responsible for 82 points that sounds bad, but if its an active defender they will be involved in more plays. what is the percentage / ppp of plays thst defender is involved in if its 82 per 100 possesions that is really good

2) % of blame that player is responsible for especially in pick and rolls. obviously the two direct defenders have responsibility but so does whoever is responsible to pick up the help (sometimes thats closest to play, sometimes its furthest, sometimes its a specific defender, sometimes its the defender of a specific offensive player all depending on the scheme)

within almost every play there is responsibility to every defender, depending on the play it might look something like this

c - 45%
pg - 30%
sg- 15%
pf- 5
sf- 5

good luck removing objectivity from that enough to make it a truly valuable measurement

These percentages can vary depending on who the individual defender is on the team. If a team sees Gobert down the middle they sure as hell don't want to keep going at him in pick and rolls, Favors is the much wiser choice in that regard, and I think the same can be said for JV vs say Ibaka or Poeltl. Teams know who they're attacking, scouting reports are there for a reason.

[Lukeem]

It can simultaneously be true that:

1. You can (and should) do this for every player (DD, Lowry, etc.)
2. The information about JV is still valuable regardless

i dont think that info alone has any value... it could if you add 2 things one very easy (still time consuming) and the other time consuming and very difficult do to objectivity
1) percentages... if plays a player is involved in is responsible for 82 points that sounds bad, but if its an active defender they will be involved in more plays. what is the percentage / ppp of plays thst defender is involved in if its 82 per 100 possesions that is really good

2) % of blame that player is responsible for especially in pick and rolls. obviously the two direct defenders have responsibility but so does whoever is responsible to pick up the help (sometimes thats closest to play, sometimes its furthest, sometimes its a specific defender, sometimes its the defender of a specific offensive player all depending on the scheme)

within almost every play there is responsibility to every defender, depending on the play it might look something like this

c - 45%
pg - 30%
sg- 15%
pf- 5
sf- 5

good luck removing objectivity from that enough to make it a truly valuable measurement

These percentages can vary depending on who the individual defender is on the team. If a team sees Gobert down the middle they sure as hell don't want to keep going at him in pick and rolls, Favors is the much wiser choice in that regard, and I think the same can be said for JV vs say Ibaka or Poeltl. Teams know who they're attacking, scouting reports are there for a reason.

depends on your definition of attack... teams do not drive at jv that much, they pull up. I believe that is by design with raps. But Jv does a decent job of being big and contesting at the rim imo. too much emphasis is put on blocks. players that get blocks often get fouls putting the player on the line just as often. also a block does not mean a change of possesion whereas a miss and d board does

teams do attack attack jv in the sense that try to put him on an island and get a lot of jump shots with him playing back. when he does play back (which he needs to be good enough to not do all the time to mix it up and keep the offense guessing) we need to either get over the screens better or help from the perimeter better - for example we see that C screen coming choose a designated misser (worst shooter on the floor) and be ultra aggressive help from there, screened man has to recover into play and x out closeouts all over

[Kinger95]

Lock this crap up.

I’m pretty sure that bargnani was involved in giving up like 90 points to Denver one game.

I’m fairly certain that teams centers are involved in a large majority of defensive plays. The fact that the other team uses big men to set screens to set up switches and mismatch’s plus they are the last line of defence when the other team gets into to paint. Any C will be involved defensively quite a bit . Is Jonas bill Russell defensively? No. But he’s literally one of the only guys that still gets in there and bangs and pushes in the other team for boards. I think the more telling stat should be how many times the other teams guards/swingmen get easy drives and into the paint with minimal resistance. JV shouldn’t have to contend as many lays ups as he does