Pistons after Fred VV

[jimmy keys]

On the one hand FVV seems very much like the guy to take the most money (that whole Bet on Yourself schtick), but on the other hand I would hope he rewards the organization for taking such a chance on him and giving him so much opportunity. He would not have had the opportunity in most other situations.

If the Pistons offer him the max and he takes it, it would be a mistake to match. I'm not sure he'd want to play for Casey, though.

He will 100% sign with whichever team offers the most $. I personally wouldn't mind a sign and trade to a team like Chicago. If we can get something like Otto Porter Jr. (expiring in 2021) + 1st round pick then I'd be all about that. Fred goes home, we get a top 10 pick. Beautiful.

[mulamutti]

FVV's gonna sign for who pays him most. Masai's always preached for players take aggressive steps to keep improving and increase their market value. It would make no sense for him to play the 'you owe me, take less money cuz of loyalty' card.

I also think Masai is prepared to pay whatever it takes to keep him (even the max) and anoint him as the post-Lowry starting PG. Masai is well aware of FVV's market value, and he would've shopped FVV if he wasn't gonna pay up. I can't imagine Masai losing FVV for nothing after all that we've poured into the guy, and him coming up big in the latter part of the playoffs.

[bon]

Fred's averaging roughly 22/4/7 with over 2 steals and 3 threes made per game when Lowry's out of the lineup. He's been extremely productive and the front office will likely have to match these type of offers. He's only 26 and still improving

[everdiso]

. That and I don't trust 2 small PG lineup in the playoffs where it can be exploited especially without a superstar to bail you out.

It just won a championship tho.

[planetmars]

Personal preference is that we bring back Fred but only if his contract is less than Malcom Brogdon's. I don't think Fred will ever be as good as Brogdon is.

Brogdon got a 4 year $85M contract with the Pacers (he was also an RFA). Average value of $21.25M per year. Salary cap was at $109.14M Using his average value that's about 19.4% of the overall cap.

Terry Rozier is another guy who's similar to Fred. Backup with the Celtics.. became a primary PG when Kyrie was hurt/banged up. Charlotte scooped him up for an average salary of $18.9M x 3 years.. about 17.3% of the cap.

Cap is going to go down next season. So hard to give a number, but by percentage of the cap.. if we can get an average salary somewhere between 18-19% at the high end that would be great. Anything higher then I'd be ultimately okay if someone else signed him. If we can get him less than 18% of the cap then that would be awesome.

Historically though Masai over pays for his guys. So I don't think I would be too stunned to see Fred come back at something around 20+% of the cap. Would be disappointed but not stunned.

[supra2k8]

. That and I don't trust 2 small PG lineup in the playoffs where it can be exploited especially without a superstar to bail you out.

It just won a championship tho.

Didn't he come off the bench most of the playoffs? Green being the starting SG

[kalel123]

. That and I don't trust 2 small PG lineup in the playoffs where it can be exploited especially without a superstar to bail you out.

It just won a championship tho.

Correction. It almost lost us the championship as we wouldn't have even reached the Finals without Kawhi to bail us out, which banged him up pretty bad by the end. And our lineup didn't feature the two small-PG lineup as extensively as we have this year and we don't have a Kawhi Leonard to bail us out anymore.

It's not necessarily even the 2 PG lineup. It's that both PG's are rather on the smaller side and they can be exploited by bigger lineups especially in the playoffs.

[Psubs]

Personal preference is that we bring back Fred but only if his contract is less than Malcom Brogdon's. I don't think Fred will ever be as good as Brogdon is.

Brogdon got a 4 year $85M contract with the Pacers (he was also an RFA). Average value of $21.25M per year. Salary cap was at $109.14M Using his average value that's about 19.4% of the overall cap.

Terry Rozier is another guy who's similar to Fred. Backup with the Celtics.. became a primary PG when Kyrie was hurt/banged up. Charlotte scooped him up for an average salary of $18.9M x 3 years.. about 17.3% of the cap.

Cap is going to go down next season. So hard to give a number, but by percentage of the cap.. if we can get an average salary somewhere between 18-19% at the high end that would be great. Anything higher then I'd be ultimately okay if someone else signed him. If we can get him less than 18% of the cap then that would be awesome.

Historically though Masai over pays for his guys. So I don't think I would be too stunned to see Fred come back at something around 20+% of the cap. Would be disappointed but not stunned.

We probably sign anything under $25 million.

Isn't it crazy that Milwaukee opted to keep George Hill as a backup and sign Wesley Matthews instead of keeping Brogdon!?!?!?

I know that Hill shooting well but he's old and not clutch.

[Psubs]

. That and I don't trust 2 small PG lineup in the playoffs where it can be exploited especially without a superstar to bail you out.

It just won a championship tho.

Correction. It almost lost us the championship as we wouldn't have even reached the Finals without Kawhi to bail us out, which banged him up pretty bad by the end. And our lineup didn't feature the two small-PG lineup as extensively as we have this year and we don't have a Kawhi Leonard to bail us out anymore.

It's not necessarily even the 2 PG lineup. It's that both PG's are rather on the smaller side and they can be exploited by bigger lineups especially in the playoffs.

Untrue. Neither were posted up. FVV did a sweet job on MVP Curry.

[Jcity08]

Depends on how much Pistons want Freddy, I love the guy but some teams throw out stupid contracts and if Pistons do that, do we really try to outbid?

[Knucknbuc]

lol yea right. fred is waaayyy to smart to go to Detroit and play for casey (who at this rate wont be there in 2 years) i put it at 5% chance he goes there. only reason its 5% is if detroit goes insane and offers him like 100 mil or something dumb....which could happen because casey is desperate at this point but detroit would still be a losing team...fred knows this. imagine even if they got fred it would be:

pg-fred
sg-maybe rose (is he even signed next year?)
sf-some guy
pf-broken down blake griffin
c- ummmm.

lol not even getting to their bench. that roster is complete garbage pail fire. they already suck this year. I can almost guarantee they will suck next year also.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

[jimmy keys]

lol yea right. fred is waaayyy to smart to go to Detroit and play for casey (who at this rate wont be there in 2 years) i put it at 5% chance he goes there. only reason its 5% is if detroit goes insane and offers him like 100 mil or something dumb....which could happen because casey is desperate at this point but detroit would still be a losing team...fred knows this. imagine even if they got fred it would be:

pg-fred
sg-maybe rose (is he even signed next year?)
sf-some guy
pf-broken down blake griffin
c- ummmm.

lol not even getting to their bench. that roster is complete garbage pail fire. they already suck this year. I can almost guarantee they will suck next year also.

Sent from my SM-G975U using RealGM mobile app

At the end of the day it's usually $ that drives free agency decisions. DeRozan and Lowry re-signed in Toronto because Toronto was offering way more money than anyone else. If we offer 20/year and another team offers 25 he's gone. Plus you're not acknowledging ego. Fred has a huge ego and I imagine he believes he's good enough to turn any franchise around. Masai usually overpays on shorter term, which is a good strategy. I'd offer him a one year max and if he balks then I'd let him walk, hopefully with an asset coming back.

[everdiso]

. That and I don't trust 2 small PG lineup in the playoffs where it can be exploited especially without a superstar to bail you out.

It just won a championship tho.

Didn't he come off the bench most of the playoffs? Green being the starting SG

Green was a liability in the playoffs. Just awful.

Fred was also awful the 1st 2 rounds but then he woke up in round 3 and that 2-PG lineup was absolutely crucial to the championship. And Fred was always the closer.

[everdiso]

. That and I don't trust 2 small PG lineup in the playoffs where it can be exploited especially without a superstar to bail you out.

It just won a championship tho.

Correction. It almost lost us the championship as we wouldn't have even reached the Finals without Kawhi to bail us out, which banged him up pretty bad by the end. And our lineup didn't feature the two small-PG lineup as extensively as we have this year and we don't have a Kawhi Leonard to bail us out anymore.

It's not necessarily even the 2 PG lineup. It's that both PG's are rather on the smaller side and they can be exploited by bigger lineups especially in the playoffs.

That is an incorrection.

It was only when Fred woke up in round 3 and became the full time closer that our 2-PG closing lineup managed to win an ECF and a championship.

[SFour]

. That and I don't trust 2 small PG lineup in the playoffs where it can be exploited especially without a superstar to bail you out.

It just won a championship tho.

Correction. It almost lost us the championship as we wouldn't have even reached the Finals without Kawhi to bail us out, which banged him up pretty bad by the end. And our lineup didn't feature the two small-PG lineup as extensively as we have this year and we don't have a Kawhi Leonard to bail us out anymore.

It's not necessarily even the 2 PG lineup. It's that both PG's are rather on the smaller side and they can be exploited by bigger lineups especially in the playoffs.

Fred struggled in the Sixers series because they used Butler and Simmons as their point guards/ball handlers...those are 2 giant ass PGs who are also elite defensively...FVV had no chance especially when his shot wasn't falling. Maybe if the Sixers played TJ McConnell, a normal sized PG, then FVV would've actually played good.

I knew going into the Bucks and Warriors series that FVV was going to play much better because he was going to be matched up against normal sized pointguards.

[bon]

Personal preference is that we bring back Fred but only if his contract is less than Malcom Brogdon's. I don't think Fred will ever be as good as Brogdon is.

Fred's already as good as Brogdon if not better. He's younger too

[Rapsalot]

FVV at 4 years 18 mil per welcome home. Over $20 mil per we will have to start over on search for future PG.

[planetmars]

Personal preference is that we bring back Fred but only if his contract is less than Malcom Brogdon's. I don't think Fred will ever be as good as Brogdon is.

Fred's already as good as Brogdon if not better. He's younger too

Brogon had a down year this year.. especially at the 3pt line. He fielded a 40/50/90 season. It's easier for him to get to the rim because of his size and he's a former ROY.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs.. but ultimately I still would prefer to get Fred at under Malcolm's value.. especially considering Malcom was an RFA and most RFA's that move teams are overpaid significantly to avoid their former team from matching their offer sheet.

Don't get me wrong.. I want Fred back. Just not for a crazy amount. Salary cap is pretty critical for 2021. So the more we save the better. If we can front load his deal that would be great.. just not sure that's allowed though.

[bstein14]

Assuming that the cap is declining, I think 4 years $60 million for FVV might be the best deal he gets. I can't see all that many teams with cap space needing a PG outside of Detroit. But I suppose it only takes two interested teams to drive up a players price. I think the Pistons would be foolish to pay more than $20 million per year with the cap being so uncertain. I would be bummed as a Pistons fan if its over 4 years $80 million.

[everdiso]

Imo we kinda have to sign him. and if it's 5m more or 5m less I'm not sure it matters all that much.

The young core has to stay in place imo:

Siakam 25
Anunoby 22
Powell 26
Davis 22
Fred 25

And try to keep most of the backup young core too:

Hernandez 23
RHJ 25
Brissett 21
Thomas 25
McCaw 24

And not young but keep Boucher (27) too.


And then try our best to squeeze lowry/ibaka/gasol in there as long as possible. Maybe offer lowry and gasol longer term deals with low caphits to make it all work - I have a feeling both will continue to age well.