Draft Thread Part 4

[Steelo Green]

Davion could very well end up being Mario Chalmers (State Championship, older player, nothing too exciting about his game but seen as a two way player).

Don’t know why people are so high on a good tourney run player and a mediocre season. That’s like a hot playoff run after a mediocre year and getting excited.

Red flags for his size, his shooting, playmaking and his ceiling considering his age.

Mentioning Norm is not a great argument considering he was a second rounder. Age is important.

Roy and Lillard were can’t miss scorers. Mitchell isn’t a scorer at all.

Two way players are important but Nurse can teach a rookie to play D if he’s weak at it.

The older players are fine for late firsts, second rounders, undrafted, but the best players are almost always freshman or sophomores. Go to almost any star in the NBA minus say Dame, Jimmy and Steph.

[S.W.A.N]

Davion could very well end up being Mario Chalmers (State Championship, older player, nothing too exciting about his game but seen as a two way player).

Don’t know why people are so high on a good tourney run player and a mediocre season. That’s like a hot playoff run after a mediocre year and getting excited.

Red flags for his size, his shooting, playmaking and his ceiling considering his age.

Mentioning Norm is not a great argument considering he was a second rounder. Age is important.

Roy and Lillard were can’t miss scorers. Mitchell isn’t a scorer at all.

Two way players are important but Nurse can teach a rookie to play D if he’s weak at it.

The older players are fine for late firsts, second rounders, undrafted, but the best players are almost always freshman or sophomores. Go to almost any star in the NBA minus say Dame, Jimmy and Steph.

Age is important but it is only a factor that has to be considered for development path and how much room for improvement they have.

The red flag for shooting is barely a flag. There is enough volume and tape to see if his stroke is good or not. Yes the free throw shooting is a red flag for some players.

Saying Nurse can teach players to play D is misleading. Some guys never get good enough. Elite defensive players usually show it in college. Mitchell is a guy who's going to be a plus defender at the pg spot. that is pretty easy to see.

I not saying we should draft Mitchell, I like several players more than I do him, but I wouldn't hate the pick if it did happen. To me he has the potential to be a defensive player of the year candidate while being enough of an offensive threat to stay on the floor. Not a homerun pick but a solid rotation piece.

If we going to talk about guys with Red Flags for playmaking we gotta be talking Bouknight. He's the most tunnel vision no passing guy on our radar...

[OAKLEY_2]

I have concerns about Mitchell, particularly his shooting, but I couldn't care less about his age. One could even argue it's a plus in terms of return on investment i.e. he's ready to contribute right away and will be cheap through his prime. Some guys are just late bloomers or didn't get an opportunity early in college; hell, guys like Rodman and Taj Gibson were drafted closer to 25.

Mitchell is a solid pick. He can flat out play on both ends. I dont believe his shooting was an outlier. His step backs and pull ups are “confident” moves. You dont attempt those shots if you know u cant hit them. These werent just opem 3’s from the corner.

But i will say we have fvv and flynn already - i just dont see how we dump flynn already. Plus if were dead set on mitchell, we r going to have to be happy with a fvv mitchell backcourt which i dont know about. He’d be a greAt pick 14+ ... i dont think we take him at 7

Would be nice to get Cade and get another pick to get Mitchell if they really like him especially with lowry possibbly gone.

Fvv - mitchell
Cade - trent
Og -
Pascal -
Upgrade -

We would have a very promising back court - all 2 way guys

He is either a great pick or not. Siakam was great pick period. OG was a great pick period. Flynn seems to be a very good pick. Where those guys got picked while truly surprising, doesn't change the greatness of hitting on starters or Allstars. If Mitchell were to turn out as best talent 7-14 who cares where you got him. Imagine saying Kawhi was a bad pick at 5 but ok at 15. Ditto Klay Thompson.

[Steelo Green]

Davion could very well end up being Mario Chalmers (State Championship, older player, nothing too exciting about his game but seen as a two way player).

Don’t know why people are so high on a good tourney run player and a mediocre season. That’s like a hot playoff run after a mediocre year and getting excited.

Red flags for his size, his shooting, playmaking and his ceiling considering his age.

Mentioning Norm is not a great argument considering he was a second rounder. Age is important.

Roy and Lillard were can’t miss scorers. Mitchell isn’t a scorer at all.

Two way players are important but Nurse can teach a rookie to play D if he’s weak at it.

The older players are fine for late firsts, second rounders, undrafted, but the best players are almost always freshman or sophomores. Go to almost any star in the NBA minus say Dame, Jimmy and Steph.

Age is important but it is only a factor that has to be considered for development path and how much room for improvement they have.

The red flag for shooting is barely a flag. There is enough volume and tape to see if his stroke is good or not. Yes the free throw shooting is a red flag for some players.

Saying Nurse can teach players to play D is misleading. Some guys never get good enough. Elite defensive players usually show it in college. Mitchell is a guy who's going to be a plus defender at the pg spot. that is pretty easy to see.

I not saying we should draft Mitchell, I like several players more than I do him, but I wouldn't hate the pick if it did happen. To me he has the potential to be a defensive player of the year candidate while being enough of an offensive threat to stay on the floor. Not a homerun pick but a solid rotation piece.

If we going to talk about guys with Red Flags for playmaking we gotta be talking Bouknight. He's the most tunnel vision no passing guy on our radar...

DPOY candidate? Really?

PG defenders are simply not as valuable as people want them to be. The interior defender is the most important, then the wing, and the guard is last.

Most of those things are flags and that’s a lot. I don’t like Bouknight either. Not sure why everyone is infatuated with him.

People are overvaluing defense over O and that too especially at a spot where it’s just not as important as people want it to be.

You would take Smart over say Dame? Or Kyrie? Or Steph? Trae?

I do believe coming in as a raw prospect, then yes they can make you a good defender. If you’re say 8 years into your career - then even Pop couldn’t change the habits you have developed.

Johnson is the guy you should try and get if he doesn’t get taken at 6. Could he bust? Sure. But he’s the only one with elite potential.

[Steelo Green]

I have concerns about Mitchell, particularly his shooting, but I couldn't care less about his age. One could even argue it's a plus in terms of return on investment i.e. he's ready to contribute right away and will be cheap through his prime. Some guys are just late bloomers or didn't get an opportunity early in college; hell, guys like Rodman and Taj Gibson were drafted closer to 25.

Mitchell is a solid pick. He can flat out play on both ends. I dont believe his shooting was an outlier. His step backs and pull ups are “confident” moves. You dont attempt those shots if you know u cant hit them. These werent just opem 3’s from the corner.

But i will say we have fvv and flynn already - i just dont see how we dump flynn already. Plus if were dead set on mitchell, we r going to have to be happy with a fvv mitchell backcourt which i dont know about. He’d be a greAt pick 14+ ... i dont think we take him at 7

Would be nice to get Cade and get another pick to get Mitchell if they really like him especially with lowry possibbly gone.

Fvv - mitchell
Cade - trent
Og -
Pascal -
Upgrade -

We would have a very promising back court - all 2 way guys

He is either a great pick or not. Siakam was great pick period. OG was a great pick period. Flynn seems to be a very good pick. Where those guys got picked while truly surprising, doesn't change the greatness of hitting on starters or Allstars. If Mitchell were to turn out as best talent 7-14 who cares where you got him. Imagine saying Kawhi was a bad pick at 5 but ok at 15. Ditto Klay Thompson.

Where your picked in relation to your production does matter.

If Pascal was the first pick, he would be a bad one.

If Flynn were a top 5 pick, he would be a bad one.

For every Klay or Kawhi there are a lot more bad picks at that range.

[OakleyDokely]

Mitchell is a solid pick. He can flat out play on both ends. I dont believe his shooting was an outlier. His step backs and pull ups are “confident” moves. You dont attempt those shots if you know u cant hit them. These werent just opem 3’s from the corner.

But i will say we have fvv and flynn already - i just dont see how we dump flynn already. Plus if were dead set on mitchell, we r going to have to be happy with a fvv mitchell backcourt which i dont know about. He’d be a greAt pick 14+ ... i dont think we take him at 7

Would be nice to get Cade and get another pick to get Mitchell if they really like him especially with lowry possibbly gone.

Fvv - mitchell
Cade - trent
Og -
Pascal -
Upgrade -

We would have a very promising back court - all 2 way guys

He is either a great pick or not. Siakam was great pick period. OG was a great pick period. Flynn seems to be a very good pick. Where those guys got picked while truly surprising, doesn't change the greatness of hitting on starters or Allstars. If Mitchell were to turn out as best talent 7-14 who cares where you got him. Imagine saying Kawhi was a bad pick at 5 but ok at 15. Ditto Klay Thompson.

Where your picked in relation to your production does matter.

If Pascal was the first pick, he would be a bad one.

If Flynn were a top 5 pick, he would be a bad one.

For every Klay or Kawhi there are a lot more bad picks at that range.

Siakam has the 3rd most win shares from his draft class. He's also had the most playoff success.

You can debate where he'd go in a re-draft, but overall, he's been one of the best players from that draft class and he would be a successful pick at any spot.

[PhilBlackson]

People can say whatever they want but drafting a backup PG (Mitchell) that projects to be a high end roleplayer in likely a lone lottery picks for YEARS to come is just a bad decision (period).

We're not FA destination, we don't have max dollars to offer, will likely be capped out for years so the draft is the easiest way to raise the ceiling for our team. A Marcus Smart type player OFF THE BENCH is not going to suddenly vault us up the standings. Sure we improve, any solid prospect will do that but I hope and am very confident he won't be the pick because our franchise and management understands just making the Playoffs is not the goal and guy like Mitchell isn't going to really put us in that conversation. A bench defender isn't the difference between Play In level and true contention.

We NEED a player that at least has the potential to be a star and this being the lone opportunity for years I don't see our management squandering that or them tanking just for a high end rotation player. I truly will be stunned if DM ends up being the pick. Love what the guy brings n would take him mid lottery and later in a heartbeat but not that early n legitimately don't see it happening despite lazy American media thinking it will be the pick based on Lowry lol

Here's hoping n praying we get into the top 4 and this isn't even a conversation any more lol

[WuTang_CMB]

https://youtu.be/lgAKvxn7NqY

Not sure if this has been posted before, but this is a good video showing Davian’s defence. What he lacks in height, he makes up for in strength, speed, and ball iq.

Ya i posted in part 3
His defense will translate. His aim should be like kemba walker with better D

[Steelo Green]

He is either a great pick or not. Siakam was great pick period. OG was a great pick period. Flynn seems to be a very good pick. Where those guys got picked while truly surprising, doesn't change the greatness of hitting on starters or Allstars. If Mitchell were to turn out as best talent 7-14 who cares where you got him. Imagine saying Kawhi was a bad pick at 5 but ok at 15. Ditto Klay Thompson.

Where your picked in relation to your production does matter.

If Pascal was the first pick, he would be a bad one.

If Flynn were a top 5 pick, he would be a bad one.

For every Klay or Kawhi there are a lot more bad picks at that range.

Siakam has the 3rd most win shares from his draft class. He's also had the most playoff success.

You can debate where he'd go in a re-draft, but overall, he's been one of the best players from that draft class and he would be a successful pick at any spot.

At the first pick? No he wouldn’t. He was a fine pick and hit in the 20s but as time has gone on these guys would be above him:

Simmons
Ingram
Brown
Sabonis
Murray

With regard to playoff success, how so? He had one good finals series. That’s about it. He was bad against Milwaukee and Philly. He was good against Orlando but that first round series was just too easy.

Are we forgetting the insane struggles that Pascal even had against the Nets?

Brown did better throughout the playoffs last year.
Simmons first playoff run was also really impressive.

We won a title and Pascal was on the team, a key contributor in the last 6 games but pretty poor otherwise. Kawhi carried us to the ECF, Fred decided to show up mid way through Milwaukee, then Pascal said okay let me help out during the finals. Can’t just say we won the finals, he was the second leader scorer throughout the playoffs and second in FGA therefore more PO success. There’s a lot more to it than that.

[KillaSham23]

I say pass on Mitchell. We need buckets man, too many games raps go such long periods without scoring.
Barnes can't score but has crazy def potential, giddey, moody, bouknight, Mann and if those guys are gone sengun

[KillaSham23]

Also would really like to see Luka garza on the 905, I wonder if they could slim him down and work on the foot speed a little. Might go undrafted?

[Syd-TK3]

Need the lottery to hurry up and have us in the top 4 so these Mitchell debates can end

[Zeno]

If Minny keeps their pick, but not #1, I think it totally makes sense for them to trade their pick, Rubio, Culver for a "star" PF. They really really need to be good next year. Just saying....

[Saciid11]

I don't know why people are so worried about 18 year Moody shot creation. If I remember correctly Vince Carter as Junior in college was nothing more then athletic Dunker, Demar coming in the league dribbled like power forward. At least Moody was extremely productive freshman with already a good shooter and great defensive IQ . I wouldn't mind Moody at 7, I would rather draft Moody then guy like Barnes or Keon Johnson.

[cdel00]

I’m in the reach for Ayo camp if we drop to 8-10

[OakleyDokely]

Where your picked in relation to your production does matter.

If Pascal was the first pick, he would be a bad one.

If Flynn were a top 5 pick, he would be a bad one.

For every Klay or Kawhi there are a lot more bad picks at that range.

Siakam has the 3rd most win shares from his draft class. He's also had the most playoff success.

You can debate where he'd go in a re-draft, but overall, he's been one of the best players from that draft class and he would be a successful pick at any spot.

At the first pick? No he wouldn’t. He was a fine pick and hit in the 20s but as time has gone on these guys would be above him:

Simmons
Ingram
Brown
Sabonis
Murray

With regard to playoff success, how so? He had one good finals series. That’s about it. He was bad against Milwaukee and Philly. He was good against Orlando but that first round series was just too easy.

Are we forgetting the insane struggles that Pascal even had against the Nets?

Brown did better throughout the playoffs last year.
Simmons first playoff run was also really impressive.

We won a title and Pascal was on the team, a key contributor in the last 6 games but pretty poor otherwise. Kawhi carried us to the ECF, Fred decided to show up mid way through Milwaukee, then Pascal said okay let me help out during the finals. Can’t just say we won the finals, he was the second leader scorer throughout the playoffs and second in FGA therefore more PO success. There’s a lot more to it than that.

Compare Siakam's regular season and playoff numbers to the players you listed. When you do, you will find out that his numbers are comparable or better than all those guys you listed.

Those guys you listed are all 2nd/3rd options on championship level teams like Siakam. And Siakam is the only one to win a title in that role.

[bboyskinnylegs]

If Minny keeps their pick, but not #1, I think it totally makes sense for them to trade their pick, Rubio, Culver for a "star" PF. They really really need to be good next year. Just saying....

I think regardless of whether the Warriors or Wolves end up with that pick, both would be willing to discuss dealing it for Pascal.

[PhilBlackson]

If Minny keeps their pick, but not #1, I think it totally makes sense for them to trade their pick, Rubio, Culver for a "star" PF. They really really need to be good next year. Just saying....

I think regardless of whether the Warriors or Wolves end up with that pick, both would be willing to discuss dealing it for Pascal.

If MIN were willing to flip a top 4, I wouldn't think twice and have Siakam shipped with Amazon Prime for next day delivery. If GSW landed at 5 and threw in Wiseman, I'd do that too...

[redraptor77]

Siakam has the 3rd most win shares from his draft class. He's also had the most playoff success.

You can debate where he'd go in a re-draft, but overall, he's been one of the best players from that draft class and he would be a successful pick at any spot.

At the first pick? No he wouldn’t. He was a fine pick and hit in the 20s but as time has gone on these guys would be above him:

Simmons
Ingram
Brown
Sabonis
Murray

With regard to playoff success, how so? He had one good finals series. That’s about it. He was bad against Milwaukee and Philly. He was good against Orlando but that first round series was just too easy.

Are we forgetting the insane struggles that Pascal even had against the Nets?

Brown did better throughout the playoffs last year.
Simmons first playoff run was also really impressive.

We won a title and Pascal was on the team, a key contributor in the last 6 games but pretty poor otherwise. Kawhi carried us to the ECF, Fred decided to show up mid way through Milwaukee, then Pascal said okay let me help out during the finals. Can’t just say we won the finals, he was the second leader scorer throughout the playoffs and second in FGA therefore more PO success. There’s a lot more to it than that.

Compare Siakam's regular season and playoff numbers to the players you listed. When you do, you will find out that his numbers are comparable or better than all those guys you listed.

Those guys you listed are all 2nd/3rd options on championship level teams like Siakam. And Siakam is the only one to win a title in that role.

Oakley is bang on. This board tends to focus on the flaws vs achievements of our players and imagine how much better other players are.
Pascal has been great for the Raptors. Is he Lebron/Curry/Leonard. NO but it doesnt mean he isnt a good player.
If we had Simmons - OH BOY - can you imagine what our fan base would be saying about him.. Can't shoot, chokes in playoffs, always hurt.
Murray - I love him but look at his numbers and pay.. What would we be saying. (he had a great bubble tourney not much else).
INGRAM - haha are we talking about INGRAM now.
Sabonis - Solid player is he really better than Pascal - Come on now.
Brown - Solid - young player- better than I though he would be... But is he worthy of a 1st overall.

I would take Simmons, Pascal/Brown, Murray/Ingram in that order. I would flip a coin between Brown and Pascal depending on the team needs.

[Indeed]

Davion could very well end up being Mario Chalmers (State Championship, older player, nothing too exciting about his game but seen as a two way player).

Don’t know why people are so high on a good tourney run player and a mediocre season. That’s like a hot playoff run after a mediocre year and getting excited.

Red flags for his size, his shooting, playmaking and his ceiling considering his age.

Mentioning Norm is not a great argument considering he was a second rounder. Age is important.

Roy and Lillard were can’t miss scorers. Mitchell isn’t a scorer at all.

Two way players are important but Nurse can teach a rookie to play D if he’s weak at it.

The older players are fine for late firsts, second rounders, undrafted, but the best players are almost always freshman or sophomores. Go to almost any star in the NBA minus say Dame, Jimmy and Steph.

Age is important but it is only a factor that has to be considered for development path and how much room for improvement they have.

The red flag for shooting is barely a flag. There is enough volume and tape to see if his stroke is good or not. Yes the free throw shooting is a red flag for some players.

Saying Nurse can teach players to play D is misleading. Some guys never get good enough. Elite defensive players usually show it in college. Mitchell is a guy who's going to be a plus defender at the pg spot. that is pretty easy to see.

I not saying we should draft Mitchell, I like several players more than I do him, but I wouldn't hate the pick if it did happen. To me he has the potential to be a defensive player of the year candidate while being enough of an offensive threat to stay on the floor. Not a homerun pick but a solid rotation piece.

If we going to talk about guys with Red Flags for playmaking we gotta be talking Bouknight. He's the most tunnel vision no passing guy on our radar...

DPOY candidate? Really?

PG defenders are simply not as valuable as people want them to be. The interior defender is the most important, then the wing, and the guard is last.

Most of those things are flags and that’s a lot. I don’t like Bouknight either. Not sure why everyone is infatuated with him.

People are overvaluing defense over O and that too especially at a spot where it’s just not as important as people want it to be.

You would take Smart over say Dame? Or Kyrie? Or Steph? Trae?

I do believe coming in as a raw prospect, then yes they can make you a good defender. If you’re say 8 years into your career - then even Pop couldn’t change the habits you have developed.

Johnson is the guy you should try and get if he doesn’t get taken at 6. Could he bust? Sure. But he’s the only one with elite potential.

Non sense to the Smart comparison.
His offense is more like Kambe Walker / Donivan Mitchell. Why not bring up him being Walker but only Smart?