Fred "bet on yourself" Van Vleet

[dgr81]

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[macketeer]

I like Fred, but he can be so frustrating to watch at times...especially when he misses easy layups or gets easily blocked at the rim. The problem with Fred is he is really embracing the Kyle Lowry role a little too much I think.

[Brinbe]

I like Fred, but he can be so frustrating to watch at times...especially when he misses easy layups or gets easily blocked at the rim. The problem with Fred is he is really embracing the Kyle Lowry role a little too much I think.

exactly. and too much of getting stuck in the past. lowry was lowry, fred should be fred. instead of trying to emulate what he did and do what he did, just be your own person. what matters is winning, no matter how it happens.

[alan_156]

The over dribbling into tough shots or contested missed lay ups is becoming very painful to watch. This team needs pascal badly, we need someone who can create their own shot. The only offense we have is pick n roll or OG iso in the post. We need some set offenses or else we'll continue to struggle on half court offense with fvv leading the charge.

[duppyy]

The over dribbling into tough shots or contested missed lay ups is becoming very painful to watch. This team needs pascal badly, we need someone who can create their own shot. The only offense we have is pick n roll or OG iso in the post. We need some set offenses or else we'll continue to struggle on half court offense with fvv leading the charge.

Pascal won't magically fix things, this team is just not that good. He has trouble creating shots for himself, especially when his spin move is his go to move.

[Red_Claw]

Fred is the new Derozan. Good but not great and definitly not great enough to be a #1 on this team.

Love his determination but unless he's hitting 3s like Steph, he's a better bench coach then player. Especially when your team is build on length and athletesim which Fred has none.

Sell high. Sell now.

[NBA Sheady]

I've spent enough years coaching basketball that I know Fred is not driving into traffic for no reason. He's being asked to attack the rim. It's not his fault he can't jump.

What I will say though...is that now that we have Scottie. A lot of those late-clock nothing-happening situations would look a lot better with Scottie trying to make something out of nothing. He can dribble with his head up and he can finish.

The reason Freddy looks like a bowling ball on those drives is because he has to put his head down to get to the rim. He doesn't have the speed to get to the rim while remaining upright. You never see this problem with his head down in the open court.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This year he's shooting 66% at the rim, which is just behind Barnes and well ahead of pretty much everyone else on the team.

[lobosloboslobos]

what i would like is if all of fred's weaknesses were strengths, then he'd be like every other NBA PG. i don't know why we are the only team that has an imperfect PG. unfortunately fred will never turn any weaknesses into strengths because as we know players never evolve. take kyle lowry for example, he was the same player his entire career.

[ItsDanger]

Scottie will take over next season. You already see it on the court that he knows he's better. But he's old school and will wait.

[StopitLeo]

His offensive role is actually less clear when given the reins as starting PG than it was with in the two PG lineups.

Fred doesn't create enough for others like a high-level PG (his 17 assists last night were an anomaly). Last year he was 14th in the league in drives when comparing all starting guards but had the lowest FG% by far. He had the highest pass% on drives but not many resulted in a direct assist.

Fred also can't finish at the rim consistently like a SG should because of his size and has no in-between game - it's 3s (which he is great at) or difficult contested layups.

Fred's a good player but he is trying to do more than he is capable of doing effectively.

[Raptaz]

im not justifying the turnovers, but if you listened to coach speak- he basically said FVV needs to turn the corner and drive- right now he turns the corner and his head is up looking for the pass- coach said , once or twice he put his head down and drove to the basket to score.


so im understanding, he needs to turn the corner off the pick and roll- and go straight for the basket instead of looking for pass first- because defenders know he will always look to pass.

Coach also mentioned looked like pinball- he also said he wasnt complaining lol-

so my take away FVV needs to drive to open up the floor for the rest of the team, needs to look to score first off the PNR and has to either get stronger or some how draw fouls.

[nikster]

Lonzo Ball >>>>>> FVV

Dude, no Did you watch him last night? Totally scared to put the ball on the floor. That turnover to Scottie at the end of the game is like, not a rare mistake for him. He's one of the bigger boneheaded passers in the league, and Chicago fans will start to pick up on this in time. Lonzo is a 5th starter. Fred is a 3rd option. If you put Fred on the court with Vuc/LaVine/DeRozan you don't think Fred can't can wide open 3s all night?

Trying to imagine Lonzo trying to create all the offense himself without Derozan, Lavine or Vucevic...

[goinrogue]

Nothing is more important to this team right now than developing Scottie. Even though it’s early you can tell he’s the most talented guy on the team. I really just think Fred will get in the way of his development because of how he plays. I think Fred needs to be traded for scottie’s benefit. Fred is best utilized as an off ball three and D player but he thinks he’s a star. It’s just not going to work.

[HiJiNX]

The over dribbling into tough shots or contested missed lay ups is becoming very painful to watch. This team needs pascal badly, we need someone who can create their own shot. The only offense we have is pick n roll or OG iso in the post. We need some set offenses or else we'll continue to struggle on half court offense with fvv leading the charge.

Pascal won't magically fix things, this team is just not that good. He has trouble creating shots for himself, especially when his spin move is his go to move.

This is an outdated take I think. Siakam is not a guy who can be guarded one on one anymore. He has gravity and it will help everyone immensely when he comes back.

[vini_vidi_vici]

This year he's shooting 66% at the rim, which is just behind Barnes and well ahead of pretty much everyone else on the team.

To be fair, most of the narratives are old and circle jerked in the GT so much it becomes fact to them.

I have barely seen anyone mention how drastically different our initial attacks our in this offense, we used to go str PnR, now we have some new motion offense with alot of slip screens, cuts, DHOs. With that context and our poor spacing as a result, its a miracle FVV even got as many ASTs as he has this season.

[ATLTimekeeper]

His offensive role is actually less clear when given the reins as starting PG than it was with in the two PG lineups.

Fred doesn't create enough for others like a high-level PG (his 17 assists last night were an anomaly). Last year he was 14th in the league in drives when comparing all starting guards but had the lowest FG% by far. He had the highest pass% on drives but not many resulted in a direct assist.

Fred also can't finish at the rim consistently like a SG should because of his size and has no in-between game - it's 3s (which he is great at) or difficult contested layups.

Fred's a good player but he is trying to do more than he is capable of doing effectively.

I don't think smaller guards have to even get to the rim anymore. CP3 will barely ever get into the deep paint, and he's still racking up dimes. Everything is just based on the threat of his midrange pull-up, which Fred doesn't have.

On the subject of drives, he's obviously doing too much because Siakam is out, but there haven't been good alternatives. Fred's 21.8 drives/game is way too high. Next highest is OG at 9.8 (shooting 23% off drives, which is ridiculously bad). Last year's distribution was like

Fred 15
Siakam 14
KL 10.7

This year it's Fred 21.8
OG 9.8
Barnes 6.3

Siakam back will claw back Fred's ballhandling and weaponize him off the ball. OG can continue to make baby steps and then Barnes is just going to be a mixed bag rookie that you have to live with.

[canz55]

I can't believe I'm saying this but Fred needs to jack up more threes. Its not like we don't have the rebounding to compensate.

In case anyone didn't see the box score last night we outrebounded the Bulls 48-28 with 14 OR's in total.

[StopitLeo]

His offensive role is actually less clear when given the reins as starting PG than it was with in the two PG lineups.

Fred doesn't create enough for others like a high-level PG (his 17 assists last night were an anomaly). Last year he was 14th in the league in drives when comparing all starting guards but had the lowest FG% by far. He had the highest pass% on drives but not many resulted in a direct assist.

Fred also can't finish at the rim consistently like a SG should because of his size and has no in-between game - it's 3s (which he is great at) or difficult contested layups.

Fred's a good player but he is trying to do more than he is capable of doing effectively.

I don't think smaller guards have to even get to the rim anymore. CP3 will barely ever get into the deep paint, and he's still racking up dimes. Everything is just based on the threat of his midrange pull-up, which Fred doesn't have.

On the subject of drives, he's obviously doing too much because Siakam is out, but there haven't been good alternatives. Fred's 21.8 drives/game is way too high. Next highest is OG at 9.8 (shooting 23% off drives, which is ridiculously bad). Last year's distribution was like

Fred 15
Siakam 14
KL 10.7

This year it's Fred 21.8
OG 9.8
Barnes 6.3

Siakam back will claw back Fred's ballhandling and weaponize him off the ball. OG can continue to make baby steps and then Barnes is just going to be a mixed bag rookie that you have to live with.

You’re right on. These days a “PG” just needs to hit open 3s on offence and make the occasional floater and pull-up to keep the defense honest. Of course, that assumes you have a wing who can be your lead scorer, which we don’t until Pascal returns.

I hope after a few more games we see Scottie initiating the offence with more regularly. He’s going to make mistakes but he’s also going to make good plays and I think he will improve very quickly.

[arbsn]

Fred is the perfect 6th man but as a starting PG he is outclassed on most nights. He doesnt have great vision or finishing ability around the rim. Good shooter, solid defender (getting worse with increased usage like Siakam), good leader/culture guy. But overall you probably wont make the playoffs with him as your top guard.