ESPN 2022 player rankings(Pascal #30 FVV #38 Scottie #39)

[C_Money]

Pascal should be higher but its ESPN so fully expected.

[KrazyP]

Do you see the next vote total above him? It's about twice as many more votes than pascal got..

Its great that he made 3rd all nba team but were talking about the guy who literally was the last guy on the list by more than half the amount of votes..

And when you factor things like if it were open position voting (lavine/beal) and injuries (zion) .. it's pretty clear he pascal isn't all nba.

The "30 is low for an all nba player" argument is a lazy one

Did you even read through the link on the tweet you posted?

Lavine and Beal received exactly 0 votes. Fred got more all-NBA votes (1) than Lavine/Beal combined.

That's the point.. if it were open position voting pascal would be behind lavine and Beal... and if you'd debate pascal is better than lavine or Beal then thats the same reason you're riled up he's at 30 right now.. homerism

Open position voting would make no difference. Siakam's impact stats blow both LaVine and especially Beals out of the water. Some fans just perfer inferior players on inferior teams because of the brain washing that comes from marketing/branding. When it comes to popularity contests, players that are all offense and no defense get ranked higher than they would in actual basketball based rankings.

Lets take a look at impact stats:

Beal
VORP: 1.0
BPM: 0.8
RAPTOR WAR: 3.3
ESPM RPM: 0.39

LaVine:
VORP: 2.6
BPM: 2.4
RAPTOR WAR: 3.6
ESPM RPM: 2.98

Siakam:
VORP: 3.6
BPM: 3.5
RAPTOR WAR: 6.4
ESPM RPM: 5.11

[Duffman100]

Did you even read through the link on the tweet you posted?

Lavine and Beal received exactly 0 votes. Fred got more all-NBA votes (1) than Lavine/Beal combined.

That's the point.. if it were open position voting pascal would be behind lavine and Beal... and if you'd debate pascal is better than lavine or Beal then thats the same reason you're riled up he's at 30 right now.. homerism

LOL....sounds like you are just here to hear yourself talk.

Open position voting would make no difference. Siakam's impact stats blow both LaVine and especially Beals out of the water. Some fans just perfer inferior players on inferior teams because of the brain washing that comes from marketing/branding. When it comes to popularity contests, players that are all offense and no defense get ranked higher than they would in actual basketball based rankings.

Beal
VORP: 1.0
BPM: 0.8
RAPTOR: 3.3
ESPM RPM: 0.39

LaVine:
VORP: 2.6
BPM: 2.4
RAPTOR: 3.6
ESPM RPM: 2.98

Siakam:
VORP: 3.6
BPM: 3.5
RAPTOR: 6.4
ESPM RPM: 5.11

This is why you're trolling.

[Tha Cynic]

Lol, ESPN...

[vini_vidi_vici]

People love making the stats argument and the stats say FVV was the 11th best player in the NBA last season.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

I'll bet that **** with ESPN as much as it **** with many posters here

ESPN has its own all encompassing stat.

FVV is 19th.

Im pretty indifferent to these lists, but id agree with most re: FVV being underrated.

[pingpongrac]

What? Beal has never averaged anything close to 9 assists. His career-high before last season (in which he missed more than half of the year) was 6 APG in 19/20. He has also never led the league in scoring lol.

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He has to be trolling.

??? How am I trolling... Curry beat out Beal for the scoring title averaging 31.8...Beal averaged 31.4 .. he didn't win it but he lead the league in scoring all year... last year he was shut down early but it was him and embiid leading the way.

Anyone that follows basketball knows how potent Beal has been.

Beal averaged 23 PPG and he was nowhere close to leading the league in scoring last year before he was shut down. He was 2nd in scoring in 2020/21...but he was also "leading" the Wizards to a below .500 record.

Anyone that follows basketball knows that Beal is a very good offensive player, but he has become a terrible defender which is a pretty big reason why the Wizards have been one of the most disappointing teams in the league the past 5 seasons.

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[720]

People love making the stats argument and the stats say FVV was the 11th best player in the NBA last season.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

I'll bet that **** with ESPN as much as it **** with many posters here

ESPN has its own all encompassing stat.

FVV is 19th.

Im pretty indifferent to these lists, but id agree with most re: FVV being underrated.

This stat also has Capela in the top 18. Stop with these dumb ass stats that overhype Vanvleet. He’s in that 30-40 range convo. Perfectly respectable for him. Placing him in the top 20 or 15 is crazy.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Heres more, although im not big on these macro stats (percentiles vs the league).

Spoiler:

[vini_vidi_vici]

People love making the stats argument and the stats say FVV was the 11th best player in the NBA last season.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

I'll bet that **** with ESPN as much as it **** with many posters here

ESPN has its own all encompassing stat.

FVV is 19th.

Im pretty indifferent to these lists, but id agree with most re: FVV being underrated.

This stat also has Capela in the top 18. Stop with these dumb ass stats that overhype Vanvleet. He’s in that 30-40 range convo. Perfectly respectable for him. Placing him in the top 20 or 15 is crazy.

Speaking to outliers doesnt strengthen your case.

[Brinbe]

3rd team all nba and he's 30th? That's not right.

[Badonkadonk]

I see we have the usual suspects who are fooled by aesthetic vs. actual on court value.

[Kevin Willis]

#30? Pretty generous tbh .. I'd say he's around mid #40s... zion kyrie lamelo Garland j.murray should be ahead for sure.

Why stop there?

Raps can be the first team ever to win 48 games with no top 50 players. Sound good?

He's definitely trolling.

[Live Free]

That's the point.. if it were open position voting pascal would be behind lavine and Beal... and if you'd debate pascal is better than lavine or Beal then thats the same reason you're riled up he's at 30 right now.. homerism

LOL....sounds like you are just here to hear yourself talk.

Open position voting would make no difference. Siakam's impact stats blow both LaVine and especially Beals out of the water. Some fans just perfer inferior players on inferior teams because of the brain washing that comes from marketing/branding. When it comes to popularity contests, players that are all offense and no defense get ranked higher than they would in actual basketball based rankings.

Beal
VORP: 1.0
BPM: 0.8
RAPTOR: 3.3
ESPM RPM: 0.39

LaVine:
VORP: 2.6
BPM: 2.4
RAPTOR: 3.6
ESPM RPM: 2.98

Siakam:
VORP: 3.6
BPM: 3.5
RAPTOR: 6.4
ESPM RPM: 5.11

This is why you're trolling.

Watch on YouTube

[billy_hoyle]

ESPN has its own all encompassing stat.

FVV is 19th.

Im pretty indifferent to these lists, but id agree with most re: FVV being underrated.

This stat also has Capela in the top 18. Stop with these dumb ass stats that overhype Vanvleet. He’s in that 30-40 range convo. Perfectly respectable for him. Placing him in the top 20 or 15 is crazy.

Speaking to outliers doesnt strengthen your case.

VVV could you add Capela to your table? Show 720 that Capelas the outlier because he only ranks in the 90+% in one stat and not across multiple catch all advanced stats?

Cheers

[720]

This stat also has Capela in the top 18. Stop with these dumb ass stats that overhype Vanvleet. He’s in that 30-40 range convo. Perfectly respectable for him. Placing him in the top 20 or 15 is crazy.

Speaking to outliers doesnt strengthen your case.

VVV could you add Capela to your table? Show 720 that Capelas the outlier because he only ranks in the 90+% in one stat and not across multiple catch all advanced stats?

Cheers

It’s okay, I guess Al Horford, Desmond Bane, Porzingis, Mike Conley, etc, are all top 20 players in this league too according to ESPN real plus minus. Totally sane opinions to have I guess. /s

Or are those guys outliers too? If they are, a stat where 5 guys are outliers in the top 20 is a joke stat. Actually watch games people.

[canada_dry]

Siakam 5-10 spots too low and we all know this lol.

Fred about right but im surprised he ranks above certain pgs like Garland.

Scottie, love him, but on one hand it seems to high, and on the other hand he should be above mobley and even Cunningham , so what does that say about them? Weird.

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[HumbleRen]

Siakam 5-10 spots too low and we all know this lol.

Fred about right but im surprised he ranks above certain pgs like Garland.

Scottie, love him, but on one hand it seems to high, and on the other hand he should be above mobley and even Cunningham , so what does that say about them? Weird.

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They're all very close to each other. We gotta stop acting like Scottie winning ROTY suddenly makes him a better prospect over Mobley and Cade.

All of them would of won ROTY is we drafted them.

[billy_hoyle]

Speaking to outliers doesnt strengthen your case.

VVV could you add Capela to your table? Show 720 that Capelas the outlier because he only ranks in the 90+% in one stat and not across multiple catch all advanced stats?

Cheers

It’s okay, I guess Al Horford, Desmond Bane, Porzingis, Mike Conley, etc, are all top 20 players in this league too according to ESPN real plus minus. Totally sane opinions to have I guess. /s

Or are those guys outliers too? If they are, a stat where 5 guys are outliers in the top 20 is a joke stat. Actually watch games people.

I'm not arguing against you. I think the stats geeks have a compelling case if the macro catch-all stats are in general agreement on players. If a particular stat has Al Horford as a top 20 player, and he's a top ~100 in all others, well you have an outlier there.

If on the other hand, you have multiple late 100 guys in the top 20 across all these catch all stats...well then a heavy dose of scepticism is justified. If that's the case, who's to say FVV isn't the outlier?

[Los_29]

Siakam 5-10 spots too low and we all know this lol.

Fred about right but im surprised he ranks above certain pgs like Garland.

Scottie, love him, but on one hand it seems to high, and on the other hand he should be above mobley and even Cunningham , so what does that say about them? Weird.

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They're all very close to each other. We gotta stop acting like Scottie winning ROTY suddenly makes him a better prospect over Mobley and Cade.

All of them would of won ROTY is we drafted them.

But these ranks aren't about who they think the best prospects are. They are about who they think will be the best next year. All three of those players are returning to the same teams they were on last year. From an analytics perspective, Scottie was quite clearly the best rookie last year and he should have an even larger role next year. Cade should be much improved but his team is likely to be really bad again and he's probably going to be wildly inefficient once again. If you're going to have a 50% TS% and win 25 games you don't belong anywhere near the top 30. LOL.

I actually agree with Scottie's placing at 39 but some of the players ahead of him like Mobley and Cade should be lower.

[canada_dry]

Siakam 5-10 spots too low and we all know this lol.

Fred about right but im surprised he ranks above certain pgs like Garland.

Scottie, love him, but on one hand it seems to high, and on the other hand he should be above mobley and even Cunningham , so what does that say about them? Weird.

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They're all very close to each other. We gotta stop acting like Scottie winning ROTY suddenly makes him a better prospect over Mobley and Cade.

All of them would of won ROTY is we drafted them.

I agree They're very close but the fact that one of them WAS the ROY, he should be ranked above them until proven otherwise. I think the reason scottie is ranked as he is , is because he cant be too far behind mobley or cade, even though They're both way too high. As a result...all 3 are too high. And its lame.

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