Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[Tha Cynic]

Barnes needs good handles, good mid range game, and a passable 3. His ability to get to the rim and beat teams in the midrange is what players of his archetype thrive in. His 3 should not be a focus right now. It's not going to get that good this quickly for a guy who came in with a very raw jumper. This was all known so not sure why people are rushing that 3.

The midrange game is forgotten until the playoffs hit and then becomes extremely important as a weapon. Funny enough, Barnes would do well to reach out to Derozan on how he improved his handles and midrange game.

[DG88]

Barnes needs good handles, good mid range game, and a passable 3. His ability to get to the rim and beat teams in the midrange is what players of his archetype thrive in. His 3 should not be a focus right now. It's not going to get that good this quickly for a guy who came in with a very raw jumper. This was all known so not sure why people are rushing that 3.

The midrange game is forgotten until the playoffs hit and then becomes extremely important as a weapon. Funny enough, Barnes would do well to reach out to Derozan on how he improved his handles and midrange game.

DeRozan trained with Handlelife for his handles and footwork to support his midrange game. Scottie trainer is a Handlelife coach.

[Vampirate]

Barnes needs good handles, good mid range game, and a passable 3. His ability to get to the rim and beat teams in the midrange is what players of his archetype thrive in. His 3 should not be a focus right now. It's not going to get that good this quickly for a guy who came in with a very raw jumper. This was all known so not sure why people are rushing that 3.

The midrange game is forgotten until the playoffs hit and then becomes extremely important as a weapon. Funny enough, Barnes would do well to reach out to Derozan on how he improved his handles and midrange game.

Tbh, when you look at his shooting, even though he had a down year, alot lines up between his first and 2nd year.

Fact is, last year he came in with an injury, was scouted better and didn't have the offensive skill yet to deal with it.

Last year despite actually shooting below .300 from 16-3P for a large majority of the year he still finished close to what the previous year was.

His shooting from 3-10 feet might be a bit of variance as while a .050 decrease in shooting is noticeable, it can be explained away. Maybe he's shoot .475 from there this year going between the 2 numbers.

What sticks out is his shooting from 10-16 feet literally took a .100 percent drop, this is the real reason his overall shooting numbers look as bad as they do, maybe he'll shoot .350 there, going between the numbers.

Everything else lines up. He took more threes but hit them at a lower clip, if he took less, than maybe he'd be at .300.

He pretty much shot at 70% at the basket as 68.7% is pretty much not worth discussing.

As for his midrange, while I wouldn't bet on it, I also wouldn't be shocked if he was shooting north of 40% there this year. He clearly has range, just not at the three point line, Ben Simmons he isn't.

[deck]

I'm desperate for Barnes to get back to offensive rebounding and exploiting the post game. He is physically imposing and has incredible touch within ~6ft. He can become a match-up nightmare if he picks his spots to bully into the paint. He stands to get a ton of foul calls when other teams can't handle him.

Agree that his mid-range and three point shooting could unlock next level, but I want to see him punish people in the paint in 2023/2024.

[will]

Scottish, bayybeeeeeeee!

[HumbleRen]

Back to his defender type of offence will never succeed in the modern NBA.

He needs to show flashes of a face front offence.

[NinjaBro]

Will be surprised if he doesn't firmly establish himself as a top 15 player this season and clearly ahead of everyone else in his draft class. Cade and Jalen are mediocre, Franz is good but has a limited ceiling, Mobley is really just Tyson Chandler 2.0, and Giddey is a traffic cone on defense. Scottie likely finishes top 10 in MVP voting this season.

Can't believe they're cancelling this show. I have thoroughly enjoyed both seasons, especially the second one.

What show is this from? Dallas or MASH?

[HiJiNX]

Back to his defender type of offence will never succeed in the modern NBA.

He needs to show flashes of a face front offence.

Why do you say that?

[PhilBlackson]

Can't believe they're cancelling this show. I have thoroughly enjoyed both seasons, especially the second one.

What show is this from? Dallas or MASH?

Winning Time.

[HumbleRen]

Back to his defender type of offence will never succeed in the modern NBA.

He needs to show flashes of a face front offence.

Why do you say that?

Look around the league and tell me what top 20 player that doesn't have a face up game.

[TheGeneral99]

What are you defining as "quite good" from midrange? I'd wager that the vast majority of the guys who made the leap to good midrange shooters started out their careers as better shooters than Barnes. To make midrange a steady part of your shot diet you need to be shooting high 40's and there are maybe 20 guys in the league who can do that on volume. High volume mid-range efficiency might be the rarest skill in the league. Not saying Barnes can't make a jump from midrange but it will have to be in conjunction with another improvement (3pt shooting or foul drawing) or else it isn't worth that much.

For me, quite good is if the defence gives you space you’re going to cash an open midrange jumper much more often than you’ll miss.

Those guys who hit a high percentage on volume are able to take that many on volume because of their role and their ability to generate good shots for themselves.

And I think any improvement in Barnes’ midrange will lead to increased foul drawing as defenders will have to guard him closer, making it easier for him to do what he does best as a scorer which is to physically overwhelm folks. I don’t think it needs to be a big part of his shot diet—his bread and butter at this point should be his floaters and rim attempts, given the ease with which he can get those looks. He just needs the midrange to pull defenders closer to him, which opens up passing lanes, but also makes his drives more lethal.

With respect to his three point range, I’m not sure it’s a super need for him, but it would be nice. Being passable there makes him a deadly high pnr threat. Without it though and he will have to do his damage in the half court from closer to the bucket.

The midrange is pretty much an absolute for star players. Even the guys that don't take a lot of them like Lillard, Steph, and Tatum, have those shots in their backpocket whenever they need them. The only star that I can think of that just never bothered with it is Harden, and it kills him in the playoffs when his legs die out. For Scottie, who to this point has a no-range game (a few reliable and smooth looking hooks from the top of the paint), the mid-range will be his focus, along with C&S 3s. It can absolutely be built in the NBA (Kawhi, DeMar, Pascal, D. Murray, Beal, LeBron, LaVine, Fox, Middleton, Butler, Jaylen Brown, Embiid).

Harden actually has a very good mid-range game, which he used a ton in the Houston years; however, his issue is he falls into the trap of settling for tough 3s.

Watch on YouTube

[mintsa]

Ohhhhhh…….the dreaded year three. Where you either shoot up the ranks into superstardom or get labeled as a fringe ALLSTAR at best.

Good Luck Scottie !!!

[HiJiNX]

Back to his defender type of offence will never succeed in the modern NBA.

He needs to show flashes of a face front offence.

Why do you say that?

Look around the league and tell me what top 20 player that doesn't have a face up game.

That didn’t really answer my question though.

People said a shooting team could never win until GSW made a dynasty out of it.

The big man was dead until Jokic won.

So I’m actually just really curious in hearing your thoughts on this.

[HiJiNX]

For me, quite good is if the defence gives you space you’re going to cash an open midrange jumper much more often than you’ll miss.

Those guys who hit a high percentage on volume are able to take that many on volume because of their role and their ability to generate good shots for themselves.

And I think any improvement in Barnes’ midrange will lead to increased foul drawing as defenders will have to guard him closer, making it easier for him to do what he does best as a scorer which is to physically overwhelm folks. I don’t think it needs to be a big part of his shot diet—his bread and butter at this point should be his floaters and rim attempts, given the ease with which he can get those looks. He just needs the midrange to pull defenders closer to him, which opens up passing lanes, but also makes his drives more lethal.

With respect to his three point range, I’m not sure it’s a super need for him, but it would be nice. Being passable there makes him a deadly high pnr threat. Without it though and he will have to do his damage in the half court from closer to the bucket.

The midrange is pretty much an absolute for star players. Even the guys that don't take a lot of them like Lillard, Steph, and Tatum, have those shots in their backpocket whenever they need them. The only star that I can think of that just never bothered with it is Harden, and it kills him in the playoffs when his legs die out. For Scottie, who to this point has a no-range game (a few reliable and smooth looking hooks from the top of the paint), the mid-range will be his focus, along with C&S 3s. It can absolutely be built in the NBA (Kawhi, DeMar, Pascal, D. Murray, Beal, LeBron, LaVine, Fox, Middleton, Butler, Jaylen Brown, Embiid).

Harden actually has a very good mid-range game, which he used a ton in the Houston years; however, his issue is he falls into the trap of settling for tough 3s.

Watch on YouTube

I think Harden’s major issue is he goes deer in the headlights when everything is on the line in the playoffs.

[HumbleRen]

Why do you say that?

Look around the league and tell me what top 20 player that doesn't have a face up game.

That didn’t really answer my question though.

People said a shooting team could never win until GSW made a dynasty out of it.

The big man was dead until Jokic won.

So I’m actually just really curious in hearing your thoughts on this.

I mean first of all, you’d have to be elite at posting up to make it even vaiable. Scottie is no where near that.


Posting up with your back to the basket also allows the other teams to set up their half court defence quicker. Makes it MUCH more easier to help off their man to come crowd you and run back to their man if you decide to pass. You can’t build a healthy half court offence if your best player’s go to move is that. It doesn’t bend defences fast enough.

Even Giannis who is a vastly superior athlete still needed to be able to take his man off the dribble while facing the rim to get to the next level. Scottie objectively needs that ability or there’s a severe ceiling on his potential as a player.

[Reeko]

Look around the league and tell me what top 20 player that doesn't have a face up game.

That didn’t really answer my question though.

People said a shooting team could never win until GSW made a dynasty out of it.

The big man was dead until Jokic won.

So I’m actually just really curious in hearing your thoughts on this.

I mean first of all, you’d have to be elite at posting up to make it even vaiable. Scottie is no where near that.


Posting up with your back to the basket also allows the other teams to set up their half court defence quicker. Makes it MUCH more easier to help off their man to come crowd you and run back to their man if you decide to pass. You can’t build a healthy half court offence if your best player’s go to move is that. It doesn’t bend defences fast enough.

Even Giannis who is a vastly superior athlete still needed to be able to take his man off the dribble while facing the rim to get to the next level. Scottie objectively needs that ability or there’s a severe ceiling on his potential as a player.

Back to the basket play is still viable, it just can't be your only means of generating offense unless you're the second coming of Shaq.
Even then, who knows what kind of game Shaq would have if he played in today's league. Scottie has a face up game though, it just so happens that a lot of his best stuff right now ie the little hook shots and his fadeaway jumpers are done with him initially having his back to the basket. It's fine for now, but he's going to have to expand his game.

[Mikistan]

Are people actually arguing he doesn't have a face up game?

[ATLTimekeeper]

^ a lot of his post-ups are face-ups that he turns. It's not as easy to load up on those.

[Vampirate]

Back to his defender type of offence will never succeed in the modern NBA.

He needs to show flashes of a face front offence.

Why do you say that?

Look around the league and tell me what top 20 player that doesn't have a face up game.

Barnes just needs a hesitation game, i'm actually not too worried about his mid range tbh.

If he ever can get to the point with his handles where he can go forwards and back then shoot it'll open up things from him.

The biggest issue with him I see are (and I see it with his body language) is that he doesn't move his body too much when dribbling.

With his height and wingspan he really doesn't need to many moves to create separation, he just needs to create a natural step back.

Once he develops a hesi game the sky will be the limit. He's never going to have a great first step, but I don't think he really needs one either.

[HumbleRen]

That didn’t really answer my question though.

People said a shooting team could never win until GSW made a dynasty out of it.

The big man was dead until Jokic won.

So I’m actually just really curious in hearing your thoughts on this.

I mean first of all, you’d have to be elite at posting up to make it even vaiable. Scottie is no where near that.


Posting up with your back to the basket also allows the other teams to set up their half court defence quicker. Makes it MUCH more easier to help off their man to come crowd you and run back to their man if you decide to pass. You can’t build a healthy half court offence if your best player’s go to move is that. It doesn’t bend defences fast enough.

Even Giannis who is a vastly superior athlete still needed to be able to take his man off the dribble while facing the rim to get to the next level. Scottie objectively needs that ability or there’s a severe ceiling on his potential as a player.

Back to the basket play is still viable, it just can't be your only means of generating offense unless you're the second coming of Shaq.
Even then, who knows what kind of game Shaq would have if he played in today's league. Scottie has a face up game though, it just so happens that a lot of his best stuff right now ie the little hook shots and his fadeaway jumpers are done with him initially having his back to the basket. It's fine for now, but he's going to have to expand his game.

Yep I agree on that part. I don't think it's just fine for now though, if he wants to be the 2nd option on a team, he's gotta get way better at it. Hopefully he did this summer.