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brownbobcat wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:Having the worst potential short term outcome could actually make promote change that improves the long term upside of the team.

I still genuinely believe all the moves we did benefiting the Spurs with Thad and Poetl, was a deal Bobby made to get Kawhi. Like "we will favour you in future deals up to X season if you give us Kawhi".

Like the Thad move made 0 sense to me, I still dont understand why we moved our pick from first round to second and got Thad along with it.

The Poetl trade was also a huge overbid, like even if you dont value lottery picks and even if you think that specific draft year over a year out is no good, you still dont throw away a weakly protected 1st pick for Poetl, Im sorry he barely moves the needle as a center, he is a 1970s Center transported to the 2020s. He does your bog standard center duties and nothing more, and even Kelly Olynk is trusted in late game situations over the guy who is shaky with his freethrows.

mdenny wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:I get rooting why some people are rooting against keeping the pick. Y'all better hope the Raptors don't move up 1-4, because its going to be very long and relentless summer around here for some of you that can't stop constantly bitching before the outcome is even settled.

And if losing/trading this summers pick was an issue to ownership, they would have fired him already and not waited for lottery balls, which would be an incredibly stupid way to make a fact based decision. So you can bet he won't be. Unless they are just plain stupid.

I'm mostly undecided about when the optimal time is to convey the pick. But for those who really want to keep the pick this year....it's actually pretty important for Memphis to pass us in the standings.

If they don't we have approx 36% chance of keeping the pick. If they do...we have approx 48% chance of keeping the pick.

I can't see the raptors actually adding 3 guaranteed contract rookies to the squad in a single off-season. They publically stated this was unlikely.

So if we keep the pick....look for the raps to trade one of them depending on what specific player they are targeting. I think they value early seconds because of less guaranteed $ so I bet they'd trade either their own or indy's. It's highly possible the raps end up trading the pick even if they keep it which would be hilarious.

The chances of being 1-4 are very close to the same between 6th and 7th. At 7 you don't keep the pick. I think the ideal spot is 7, lets the balls fall where they may and there is the slimest chance that its 6th, and its 1/3rd 1-4 and 2/3 7th+. So I don't think there's any point in tanking to 6th because it only leaves the better chance of keeping the pick at 6. And I think it's better to convey it, or win the lottery. Just not 6th. Because the 2025 draft is supposed to be that good partly due to the double covid cohort graduating year, and because of the talent at the top.

And do I care if its 7, 8, 9, or 10th that conveys. I do not. Its simply FOMO with a capital FEAR when its the 7th pick being transferred that people are whining about. It doesn't matter to the raptors which one transfers, it you want it gone this year.

Johnny Bball wrote:

mdenny wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:I get rooting why some people are rooting against keeping the pick. Y'all better hope the Raptors don't move up 1-4, because its going to be very long and relentless summer around here for some of you that can't stop constantly bitching before the outcome is even settled.

And if losing/trading this summers pick was an issue to ownership, they would have fired him already and not waited for lottery balls, which would be an incredibly stupid way to make a fact based decision. So you can bet he won't be. Unless they are just plain stupid.

I'm mostly undecided about when the optimal time is to convey the pick. But for those who really want to keep the pick this year....it's actually pretty important for Memphis to pass us in the standings.

If they don't we have approx 36% chance of keeping the pick. If they do...we have approx 48% chance of keeping the pick.

I can't see the raptors actually adding 3 guaranteed contract rookies to the squad in a single off-season. They publically stated this was unlikely.

So if we keep the pick....look for the raps to trade one of them depending on what specific player they are targeting. I think they value early seconds because of less guaranteed $ so I bet they'd trade either their own or indy's. It's highly possible the raps end up trading the pick even if they keep it which would be hilarious.

The chances of being 1-4 are very close to the same between 6th and 7th. At 7 you don't keep the pick. I think the ideal spot is 7, lets the balls fall where they may and there is the slimest chance that its 6th, and its 1/3rd 1-4 and 2/3 7th+. So I don't think there's any point in tanking to 6th because it only leaves the better chance of keeping the pick at 6. And I think it's better to convey it, or win the lottery. Just not 6th. Because the 2025 draft is supposed to be that good partly due to the double covid cohort graduating year, and because of the talent at the top.

And do I care if its 7, 8, 9, or 10th that conveys. I do not. Its simply FOMO with a capital FEAR when its the 7th pick being transferred that people are whining about. It doesn't matter to the raptors which one transfers, it you want it gone this year.

My best guess is that we'd get maybe the 12th pick next season? So the question becomes "would u trade the 6th pick this summer for the 12th pick next summer?" I'm not gonna pretend to know the general value of the drafts but from what scouts say....it's not an unreasonable tradeoff.

There's also at least some value in having CONTROL of the pick in case circumstances emerge and a possible trade opportunity presents itself. So that's another bonus in conveying ASAP.

There's also something to be said about spreading out the picks. Probably better off having 2, then 1, then 2 as opposed to having 3, then 0, then 2.

DelAbbot wrote:

Fairview4Life wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:
That's your opinion. No actual fans got us into this mess of tanking without a pick and about to deliver a top 7 top 8 FRP to the Spurs for a role player center

Actively wanted the worst outcome for a team you cheer for because you want to yell about things online is clown behaviour.

Actually, delivering the pick is not the worst outcome. It's just the most humiliating outcome for Masai, which is what I'm rooting for.

The worst outcome is keeping the pick and drafting a dud and then lose 2025 FRP in a stronger draft

here is the clown

Spoiler:

You're disgusting and should be ashamed of yourself.

Hope yak recovers quickly and is back at full strength for summer camp.

mdenny wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:

mdenny wrote:
I'm mostly undecided about when the optimal time is to convey the pick. But for those who really want to keep the pick this year....it's actually pretty important for Memphis to pass us in the standings.

If they don't we have approx 36% chance of keeping the pick. If they do...we have approx 48% chance of keeping the pick.

I can't see the raptors actually adding 3 guaranteed contract rookies to the squad in a single off-season. They publically stated this was unlikely.

So if we keep the pick....look for the raps to trade one of them depending on what specific player they are targeting. I think they value early seconds because of less guaranteed $ so I bet they'd trade either their own or indy's. It's highly possible the raps end up trading the pick even if they keep it which would be hilarious.

The chances of being 1-4 are very close to the same between 6th and 7th. At 7 you don't keep the pick. I think the ideal spot is 7, lets the balls fall where they may and there is the slimest chance that its 6th, and its 1/3rd 1-4 and 2/3 7th+. So I don't think there's any point in tanking to 6th because it only leaves the better chance of keeping the pick at 6. And I think it's better to convey it, or win the lottery. Just not 6th. Because the 2025 draft is supposed to be that good partly due to the double covid cohort graduating year, and because of the talent at the top.

And do I care if its 7, 8, 9, or 10th that conveys. I do not. Its simply FOMO with a capital FEAR when its the 7th pick being transferred that people are whining about. It doesn't matter to the raptors which one transfers, it you want it gone this year.

My best guess is that we'd get maybe the 12th pick next season? So the question becomes "would u trade the 6th pick this summer for the 12th pick next summer?" I'm not gonna pretend to know the general value of the drafts but from what scouts say....it's not an unreasonable tradeoff.

There's also at least some value in having CONTROL of the pick in case circumstances emerge and a possible trade opportunity presents itself. So that's another bonus in conveying ASAP.

There's also something to be said about spreading out the picks. Probably better off having 2, then 1, then 2 as opposed to having 3, then 0, then 2.

Not sure. I do know i would rather have the 7th pick next year than the 7th this year, and I do not know where they will finish. But its not unreasonable to say this team is not making the playoffs next year. At least not until summer.

Its a shame this thread got derailed into the pick conversation instead of Poeltl's health.

Jcity08 wrote:

brownbobcat wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:Having the worst potential short term outcome could actually make promote change that improves the long term upside of the team.

I still genuinely believe all the moves we did benefiting the Spurs with Thad and Poetl, was a deal Bobby made to get Kawhi. Like "we will favour you in future deals up to X season if you give us Kawhi".

Like the Thad move made 0 sense to me, I still dont understand why we moved our pick from first round to second and got Thad along with it.

The Poetl trade was also a huge overbid, like even if you dont value lottery picks and even if you think that specific draft year over a year out is no good, you still dont throw away a weakly protected 1st pick for Poetl, Im sorry he barely moves the needle as a center, he is a 1970s Center transported to the 2020s. He does your bog standard center duties and nothing more, and even Kelly Olynk is trusted in late game situations over the guy who is shaky with his freethrows.

Poeltl is more and more an elite centre in this league, just stop it.

Jcity08 wrote:

brownbobcat wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:Having the worst potential short term outcome could actually make promote change that improves the long term upside of the team.

I still genuinely believe all the moves we did benefiting the Spurs with Thad and Poetl, was a deal Bobby made to get Kawhi. Like "we will favour you in future deals up to X season if you give us Kawhi".

Like the Thad move made 0 sense to me, I still dont understand why we moved our pick from first round to second and got Thad along with it.

The Poetl trade was also a huge overbid, like even if you dont value lottery picks and even if you think that specific draft year over a year out is no good, you still dont throw away a weakly protected 1st pick for Poetl, Im sorry he barely moves the needle as a center, he is a 1970s Center transported to the 2020s. He does your bog standard center duties and nothing more, and even Kelly Olynk is trusted in late game situations over the guy who is shaky with his freethrows.

1. There were many teams that bid for Poeltl not just the Raptors. Raptors just had the best offer. I dont know where the narrative comes from, that Centers like Poeltl are easily available - there are not.

2. Not moving the needle - Are you even watching the Raptors? The Season ended the moment Poeltl went down in January. We got our ass kicked on Defense. He raises the Floor a lot. So dont tell me he has no impact on the team. Its felt everywhere, when he doesnt play.

3. Never ever has a team Lost because of Poeltl's FT. That narrative is simply false and is only born out of "what if he misses" He doesnt shot many to begin with, and if he actually does, he hits most of them in crunch time. Further, Olynyk provides more options, but in the end Poeltl still finishes games. Because of his defense. He Saves more Points on that end, than he ever could lose by missing FTs.

4. Next time try some research instead of blabbling something that has no value.

Same idiots crying about everything again. You wonder why people don't want to post on this forum anymore.

Shakril wrote:1. There were many teams that bid for Poeltl not just the Raptors. Raptors just had the best offer. I dont know where the narrative comes from, that Centers like Poeltl are easily available - there are not.

He is a lower-tier starting C, i.e. definitely not top 10 and anywhere from 15-25 depending on who's ranking it. Those kinds of starters are not easily available, but neither are they rare. Toronto should've let someone else outbid them.

Shakril wrote:2. Not moving the needle - Are you even watching the Raptors? The Season ended the moment Poeltl went down in January. We got our ass kicked on Defense. He raises the Floor a lot. So dont tell me he has no impact on the team. Its felt everywhere, when he doesnt play.

Toronto is a better team with Poeltl than without, but moving the needle means a significant difference.

Last year, what was Toronto before they got Poeltl? 10th seed. What were they afterwards? 9th seed.
This year, what was Toronto before Poeltl was hurt? 11th seed. What were they afterwards? 12th seed.

Shakril wrote:3. Never ever has a team Lost because of Poeltl's FT. That narrative is simply false and is only born out of "what if he misses" He doesnt shot many to begin with, and if he actually does, he hits most of them in crunch time. Further, Olynyk provides more options, but in the end Poeltl still finishes games. Because of his defense. He Saves more Points on that end, than he ever could lose by missing FTs.

That narrative is simply false and is only born out of "what if he plays during crunch time"? He doesn't play much to begin with, and if he actually does, it's not in the 4th quarter.

He averages 26.4 minutes/game, which barely even qualifies as starter minutes. This year, he averaged 4.2 mins in the 4th quarter, including 10/50 games where he didn't play in the 4th AT ALL. There were 2 other games where he logged 1 second and 3 seconds, respectively.

Shakril wrote:4. Next time try some research instead of blabbling something that has no value.

I think they forgot about Jak

Some net on-offs from the OG trade to pre-tank in early March when Scottie and Jak went out:

Boucher +12.8
Poeltl +11.0
Scottie +4.8
RJ +3.9
IQ +1.6
GTJ +1.5
Dick -1.4
Brown -16.8

Everyone else either is no longer on the team or didn't play enough during that period to warrant mention.

Also, even though it's big time sss alert, Jak is easily one of our best impact guys. We're actually a winning team when he's on the court!