Pulse check: Tank

[Scase]

I hate this part of the process. I hate tanking. **** the tank. But we gotta do what we gotta do!

Pretty much this.

It’s horrible to watch. But a necessary evil

I'm curious. Do you actually find it horrible? They haven't won, but the games have mostly been fun and promising, and I'm honestly not clear what moves they would make if they didn't want to tank.

I compare that to how bad some of the previous tanking years were (11-12 when they couldn't even tank for Harrison Barnes), and it's been much more enjoyable.

There's been nothing unenjoyable about the season other than the injuries, the games have been fun and competitive, they will just cry cause we aren't pushing for the play in on a 1st round exit ceiling team.

[deck]

Let's not forget that the team is in this narrow path (heavily reliant on hitting big on this year's lotto pick to add to their existing franchise player and cadre of role players) because the faction that's adamant on becoming mediocre as quickly as possible got exactly what it wanted. Hope you all enjoyed that Bulls play-in loss.

Not trading Fred/trading for Jak in a shambles locker room trade deadline has cost us:
- a close 10% chance at Wemby or a high lotto pick
- the 2024 lotto pick (or those juicy future Wolves picks)
- a future Bucks 1st.
- if we don't trade Jak, could easily push us out of favourable draft position yet again.

This timeline is what you end up with when you make catastrophic, shortsighted decisions.

This is what team mediocre bought, and it's left the team with no shortcuts for long term improvements. Let's hope the FO has the patience this time around to not triple down on repeating the same mistakes.

I fully agree we fked up with the Fred / Siakam years, and I am good with tanking this year.

But let's also not forget how we won a championship in 2019. We took a middling core of Lowry, Derozan, JV, and Poeltl, employed the team mediocre strategy you are bemoaning here, and won a championship.

In retrospect, we could have also made shortsighted decisions in 2014, traded everyone for draft picks, and we could be Detroit, Washington, or Orlando right now, having spent the past decade plus in the lottery.

So yes, we fked up in 2022. But your supercilious assertions about the narrow path that requires tanking as the only viable path to contention is proven false less than 6 years ago.

[Bank Shot]

I'm pumped about it. I view this as a perfect start. Gradey is making a pretty sizable leap and the bad record isn't due to regression from Scottie or IQ. It hasn't been a bad team to watch either as far as tanking teams go. This team is the 2019 squad compared to some of the late-VC era teams we had to sit through.

[PhilBlackson]

This has been even better than I could’ve hoped for & only pray it stays on this track & they do everything they possibly can until they reach the destination.

[Kingsway_fan]

At least the early key injuries have forced a direction... that Masai can build upon... My hope is we can trade Brown, Olnyk by trade deadline... at the very least... and end up with a top 5 pick.

[Clutch0z24]

Not happy we are losing but im happy because a top pick is much needed for us to have success in the future...We havn't had too many high draft picks in the Masai era and i think his number one talent as a GM is scouting....So i want to see what he can do with another top pick.

[bonjovi0308]

I think I'm more realistic and think I will take it even if it's a top 10 pick ( I think the Raps will start winning in later months if the key players are healthy and other teams giving up ).

[will]

The tank is alive and well, playboy.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Let's not forget that the team is in this narrow path (heavily reliant on hitting big on this year's lotto pick to add to their existing franchise player and cadre of role players) because the faction that's adamant on becoming mediocre as quickly as possible got exactly what it wanted. Hope you all enjoyed that Bulls play-in loss.

Not trading Fred/trading for Jak in a shambles locker room trade deadline has cost us:
- a close 10% chance at Wemby or a high lotto pick
- the 2024 lotto pick (or those juicy future Wolves picks)
- a future Bucks 1st.
- if we don't trade Jak, could easily push us out of favourable draft position yet again.

This timeline is what you end up with when you make catastrophic, shortsighted decisions.

This is what team mediocre bought, and it's left the team with no shortcuts for long term improvements. Let's hope the FO has the patience this time around to not triple down on repeating the same mistakes.

Seems like the only negative is the 10% chance at Wemby. I don't know if you can consider that a catastrophic decision, as the odds are so slim that they are not in your favour even if you do exactly what you wanted. The high lotto pick seems unimportant now that Gradey Dick is looking like a top 5 pick from this very draft. Oh, you're welcome for Gradey, btw. That's what we got by losing the play-in

Dick and even Ochai are nice surprises. But unlikely to be the stars we need to grow the ceiling. OKC has piled on a bunch of nice complimentary players (Joe, Wiggins, Dort, Hartenstein, etc.), but none of that matters. What makes them contenders is the addition of Chet and J to SGA.

We don't have the draft capital to add a core piece without gutting the future like OKC still has, and we've already traded all of our best players without getting that other piece either (still holding out on IQ making a leap maybe).

Wemby, of course, would have been game changing, but even just taking those future picks we missed out on could be the trade value that would have brought another piece in, or the youth that would sustain a Wemby/Barnes dynasty in our best case scenario.

Those are 2 significant plays that are out of our reach due to that one trade deadline mistake.

I didn't imply Ochai was a future star. I'm not sure why you're skeptical of Gradey Dick becoming one, and citing Williams as an example, who was worse than Gradey at an older age.

We have draft capital to add a core piece, it's ignorant to suggest otherwise. We have all our picks and Indiana's 2026 pick. We even have this pick, if they believed in Scottie as much as they say they do.

Another way to look at it is that exactly one team benefitted the most from artificially blowing it up in the Wemby draft. And the rest are all still figuring it out. To call it catastrophic is hyperbole.

[Airmiess]

But if they were actually pulling out games I think you would resent them for never giving up and resent their camaraderie. It's only because they're losing that most of you are happy. Poeltl plays well and tankers want him traded for maximum value, etc. They don't care that Poeltl is a part of this team, just that he represents a pathway to more value. The only value this team has to tankers is to provide them with a player they can apply even more hope to.

Think and make overly negative assumptions all you want, but you couldn't be further from the truth. I'm happy to see Grady and Ochai blossoming into rotational and starter level players, especially after all of the overly negative and casual takes on here regarding them being busts from last season. I'm fine if we retain Poeltl, as I would at least want a centre in line to take over in his absence, in addition to a first round pick, considering his high level of play lately. This is a historic draft loaded with at least five players who potentially could be generational talents. It's a golden opportunity for us to fast track this team's trajectory and become competitive much sooner than expected, as adding a potential generational talent is very exciting to an already young and competitive team. I want to win and win championships and not be relegated to a mediocre treadmill.

My negative assumption is that if these players won all their coinflip games this year and we were closer to 6-8 or 7-7 without Scottie and IQ, that fans that are supportive of the tank would resent that we were competitive and trying hard. I think a lot of the language tankers use indicates I'm right.

The close losses are foolproof, as there are no closers and guys with the ability to sink free throws in close games.

[OakleyDokely]

It's rare that you can lose at a high rate while also losing a lot of close exiting games.

Margin of Raptor losses this season:

2 pts (3 times)
3 pts
4 pts
5 pts
6 pts
11 pts
14 pts
15 pts
20 pts
30 pts

Other than a couple games, the Raps have been in these games, and a lot of them have gone down to the wire.

[Shakril]

It's rare that you can lose at a high rate while also losing a lot of close exiting games.

Margin of Raptor losses this season:

2 pts (3 times)
3 pts
4 pts
5 pts
6 pts
11 pts
14 pts
15 pts
20 pts
30 pts

Other than a couple games, the Raps have been in these games, and a lot of them have gone down to the wire.

Thats why i am confident, that they wont stay at the bottom. If just 3 of those close games where wins, we are already in the play-in territory - with a tough schedule and injuries.
The only fear i have, that those guys lose their heart to fight, if they keep losing those close games. 2xDenver & Boston hurt the most.

[MiamiSPX]

Season has been great. I obviously want them to win all of these close games, but then remember the enormous benefit (long-term) when they don't. We've seen growth/promise from all the youngsters that matter. We don't have anyone noteworthy playing for a contract. Also don't have anyone noteworthy with one foot out the door. No internal strife that we are aware of.

Just a great tank season.

[OakleyDokely]

I was at the game on Friday and when I looked up at the scoreboard after a substitution, they had a lineup of Shead, Battle, Temple, Boucher and Fernando. That lineup would be great if it were a gleague game. But that's where we are at the moment with all the injuries. But you have to hand it to them, they are fighting.

[YogurtProducer]

I hate this part of the process. I hate tanking. **** the tank. But we gotta do what we gotta do!

Pretty much this.

It’s horrible to watch. But a necessary evil

I'm curious. Do you actually find it horrible? They haven't won, but the games have mostly been fun and promising, and I'm honestly not clear what moves they would make if they didn't want to tank.

I compare that to how bad some of the previous tanking years were (11-12 when they couldn't even tank for Harrison Barnes), and it's been much more enjoyable.

Just give it time. The team is fighting now because it is early in the year and they still "have a chance". Once we are so far out of the playoff picture that it is irrelevant we are going to start seeing some ugly stuff like every tank ever

[YogurtProducer]

Pretty much this.

It’s horrible to watch. But a necessary evil

I'm curious. Do you actually find it horrible? They haven't won, but the games have mostly been fun and promising, and I'm honestly not clear what moves they would make if they didn't want to tank.

I compare that to how bad some of the previous tanking years were (11-12 when they couldn't even tank for Harrison Barnes), and it's been much more enjoyable.

There's been nothing unenjoyable about the season other than the injuries, the games have been fun and competitive, they will just cry cause we aren't pushing for the play in on a 1st round exit ceiling team.

lol come on dude - no one wants to be a play-in or a 1st round exit team.

This right here is your problem - you seriously think your line of thinking is superior to everyone else and anyone who disagrees with you loves mediocrity. I can acknowledge others deep down have the long-term interests of the franchise at heart but can just disagree on the path to achieving those results. You legitimately believe you are smarter than everyone else.

[Smalltown]

Needs to be a third option. Ambivalent. Don't particularly enjoy it. But you play with the hand you're given.

[lobosloboslobos]

As long as I feel everybody is giving it their all I'm down with whatever. This year we are losing like crazy and there's an obvious opportunity to land a top pick, so sure go for it. I won't complain. I'll even cheer for it if that's what's on the table. All I ask is that our team always be giving it their all and that the management and coaches and players not be blatantly stupid or selfish. I always want to be going forward not backward and on those fronts this year has been entirely satisfying despite all the losses.

[God Squad]

All is according to plan.

[C Court]

I wouldn’t say no to a bottom 5 finish this season.