Masai Approval Rating Post-Deadline

[LarSiN]

Can't give an A considering how we are falling in the tank race this year. Good job acquiring assets though so B+ overall

We're pretty firmly bottom 5 & about to go on a string of L's. We were never going to be Washington bad

brooklyn is only 1 game back of us for 5th. We have a easier schedule ahead rest of season too

And we're missing Poeltl + Barrett, resting IQ every other game & just lost 3 bench pieces. BKN will be getting Cam Thomas back next week & we're all in on the tank now. Don't worry, we'll make it

[Scase]

I love ho all season long people saying we should sit healthy players out, the argument was Masai doesn't do that. But NOW we're totally going all in on the tank. Man, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening when BI plays the last 20 games of the season lol.

[DelAbbot]

I love ho all season long people saying we should sit healthy players out, the argument was Masai doesn't do that. But NOW we're totally going all in on the tank. Man, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening when BI plays the last 20 games of the season lol.

So many posters saying BI will be shutdown for majority of rest of this season to protect our draft pick. I've never seen such group delusion live.

btw, BI is supposed to be back after ASG week, which is 2 weeks away.

[pingpongrac]

I love ho all season long people saying we should sit healthy players out, the argument was Masai doesn't do that. But NOW we're totally going all in on the tank. Man, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening when BI plays the last 20 games of the season lol.

We just traded away three of our vets and brought back one (currently injured) player. Boucher hasn't played in 3 of the last 4 games (0-3 in games he hasn't played) while Shead has averaged 27 MPG and JKW has averaged 24 MPG over the same span plus we've called Mogbo and Battle back up in addition to playing 10-day Orlando Robinson a bit. Our starting lineup tomorrow likely consists of two rookies (JKW and Shead/Mogbo depending on how Darko plays it), a sophomore Gradey, IQ and Scottie at the 5. We are clearly tanking lol.

[Rainman66]

There's no point in foresighting a blundered 25 draft pick already BI hasn't stepped on basketball floor to ruin our tank upside yet that conversation is pointless, even if he does our odds have already been lost due to a 7/8 win streak, and this thread is about Masai's impact at the deadline, not about how the pick will do down the line.

[TGM]

I think we are a team on the rise, but next few months for the tank commanders you will get your wish. Our Feb schedule is arguably our toughest stretch with the possibility we lose all games especially if Jakob is out. BI is also still out and IQ sits back to back.

Us losing 80–% of our Feb games is very realistic.

March is easier cause we got 3 against the wizards, but also thought to be lottery teams like Spurs, Pistons and Blazeds are all of a sudden competing. Blazers won 9 out of 10. Only team is Brooklyn that is close to us. Chicago has six games on us. So I think this was well calculated by Masai. Getting an asset and still getting to tank.

[ChillPill]

For all the noise and controversy around, Masai and co. are building the way they usually do. And this Raps team is suddenly starting to look more like a Masai-built team: quite good, quite deep, but no superstar. Like the Lowry - Derozan teams or the post-Melo Nuggets.

I'm not worried about the Raps becoming a perennial playoff team. But, as we know, the most difficult jump of all is going from playoff team to contender. It's almost impossible to do without a superstar.

It's also almost impossible to get a superstar (unless you're the Lakers apparently). You can't engineer it. It's just right place, right time, an act of God. The Spurs were less than 15% to get Wemby. OKC got Shai because PG demanded a trade to one place only. Jokic was 41st overall, Giannis was 15th. Curry was 7th.

I mean, the Raps right now are: Poeltl (9th overall 2016), Ingram (2nd overall 2016), Barrett (3rd overall 2019), Barnes (4th overall 2021). The Raps could have tanked for a number of years and this would have been an above-average outcome. They would more likely end up with similar caliber players than a superstar.

Also, for all the talk of the Raps not tanking, they certainly did in 2021 and they are this year.

[Duffman100]

I love ho all season long people saying we should sit healthy players out, the argument was Masai doesn't do that. But NOW we're totally going all in on the tank. Man, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening when BI plays the last 20 games of the season lol.

So many posters saying BI will be shutdown for majority of rest of this season to protect our draft pick. I've never seen such group delusion live.

btw, BI is supposed to be back after ASG week, which is 2 weeks away.

Well 2 days ago he was still not cleared for contact and there was no timetable on his return. So 2 weeks away doesn't seem possible eh?

[Kingsway_fan]

A... strategically brilliant so far. NOW let's get that top 5 pick and really compete next year...

[Thaddy]

I love ho all season long people saying we should sit healthy players out, the argument was Masai doesn't do that. But NOW we're totally going all in on the tank. Man, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening when BI plays the last 20 games of the season lol.

That's a dumb assertion consider Bobby already came out and said it's a rebuilding season, we're holding out IQ and we'll probably do the same with Ingram. We also just recently started Walter instead of Agbaji. There's a clear tanking initiative that's come top down.

[Rapsalot]

Part of the Deadline not known without players under future contract. The TD moves B+ only negative is flexibility.
I would love if BI can play 10-12 games down the stretch to see what team looks like. Same for IQ in the same games. Pick some easy and some hard.
Tank, develop and learn fit

[djsunyc]

I've been a long time fan of Masai. BUT I think we need to hold the As. His performance post championship has been mediocre.

what he did from 2020 to 2023 doesnt really apply anymore because it was a different objective. he wanted to get a superstar to play with fred, pascal and og. first was not adding salary for giannis. then he was deep into the durant and lillard trades. they both chose elsewhere.

he finally shifted focus in 2023 as all 3 were gone in under 6 months. now we see what his retool can do. his contract is up in another year so he may not be around much longer but the path of this incarnation started in 2023. everything before that doesnt apply imho.

[Duffman100]

I've been a long time fan of Masai. BUT I think we need to hold the As. His performance post championship has been mediocre.

what he did from 2020 to 2023 doesnt really apply anymore because it was a different objective. he wanted to get a superstar to play with fred, pascal and og. first was not adding salary for giannis. then he was deep into the durant and lillard trades. they both chose elsewhere.

he finally shifted focus in 2023 as all 3 were gone in under 6 months. now we see what his retool can do. his contract is up in another year so he may not be around much longer but the path of this incarnation started in 2023. everything before that doesnt apply imho.

I'd be interested to see people's perspective if Masai was fired in 2023 and the entire moves since (siakam, OG etc) were done by a new FO.

They'd be given leniency on the siakam trade since they were painted into a corner by the old guard. But I feel like this pivot and the team we currently have would be viewed as more favourably than it is.

[YogurtProducer]

I love ho all season long people saying we should sit healthy players out, the argument was Masai doesn't do that. But NOW we're totally going all in on the tank. Man, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening when BI plays the last 20 games of the season lol.

We just traded away three of our vets and brought back one (currently injured) player. Boucher hasn't played in 3 of the last 4 games (0-3 in games he hasn't played) while Shead has averaged 27 MPG and JKW has averaged 24 MPG over the same span plus we've called Mogbo and Battle back up in addition to playing 10-day Orlando Robinson a bit. Our starting lineup tomorrow likely consists of two rookies (JKW and Shead/Mogbo depending on how Darko plays it), a sophomore Gradey, IQ and Scottie at the 5. We are clearly tanking lol.

But, but, but... we didn't trade Boucher so obviously we are going for the play in

[Scase]

I've been a long time fan of Masai. BUT I think we need to hold the As. His performance post championship has been mediocre.

what he did from 2020 to 2023 doesnt really apply anymore because it was a different objective. he wanted to get a superstar to play with fred, pascal and og. first was not adding salary for giannis. then he was deep into the durant and lillard trades. they both chose elsewhere.

he finally shifted focus in 2023 as all 3 were gone in under 6 months. now we see what his retool can do. his contract is up in another year so he may not be around much longer but the path of this incarnation started in 2023. everything before that doesnt apply imho.

I'd be interested to see people's perspective if Masai was fired in 2023 and the entire moves since (siakam, OG etc) were done by a new FO.

They'd be given leniency on the siakam trade since they were painted into a corner by the old guard. But I feel like this pivot and the team we currently have would be viewed as more favourably than it is.

Absolutely, because cleaning up someone elses mess is not expected to be a simple process, however you should never get a pat on the back for cleaning up a mess you made.

You cannot be held responsible for actions that took place before you were with the org. They could still screw things up for sure, and there'd probably be some backlash, but they get leniency coming into a messy situation by no fault of their own. It's why I think the criticism of Weltman in ORL not perfectly turning it around year one is just stupid.

And I know you didn't say it, so this is directed at djsunyc's comment, but no, you don't get to hand wave away screw ups because they "changed direction", they still did it, they are still held responsible. If they made poor decisions trying to build off a flawed core, that speaks to their team building and judgment, and that doesn't go away just cause they decided to finally rip off the bandaid.

This is like giving a criminal a clean slate, because they moved towns to get away from other criminals. No, you're a big boy, you still made your choices, live with them and take responsibility.

[Duffman100]

what he did from 2020 to 2023 doesnt really apply anymore because it was a different objective. he wanted to get a superstar to play with fred, pascal and og. first was not adding salary for giannis. then he was deep into the durant and lillard trades. they both chose elsewhere.

he finally shifted focus in 2023 as all 3 were gone in under 6 months. now we see what his retool can do. his contract is up in another year so he may not be around much longer but the path of this incarnation started in 2023. everything before that doesnt apply imho.

I'd be interested to see people's perspective if Masai was fired in 2023 and the entire moves since (siakam, OG etc) were done by a new FO.

They'd be given leniency on the siakam trade since they were painted into a corner by the old guard. But I feel like this pivot and the team we currently have would be viewed as more favourably than it is.

Absolutely, because cleaning up someone elses mess is not expected to be a simple process, however you should never get a pat on the back for cleaning up a mess you made.

You cannot be held responsible for actions that took place before you were with the org. They could still screw things up for sure, and there'd probably be some backlash, but they get leniency coming into a messy situation by no fault of their own. It's why I think the criticism of Weltman in ORL not perfectly turning it around year one is just stupid.

And I know you didn't say it, so this is directed at djsunyc's comment, but no, you don't get to hand wave away screw ups because they "changed direction", they still did it, they are still held responsible. If they made poor decisions trying to build off a flawed core, that speaks to their team building and judgment, and that doesn't go away just cause they decided to finally rip off the bandaid.

This is like giving a criminal a clean slate, because they moved towns to get away from other criminals. No, you're a big boy, you still made your choices, live with them and take responsibility.

Sure and agreed. But moving to the moves in isolation is still an interesting exercise to held hold back previous bias over the past moves.

[TorontoRapsFan]

Anyone think of the fact that having gone and got a player of Ingram's quality, makes tanking the rest of the season a lot easier for players to accept?

[Scase]

I'd be interested to see people's perspective if Masai was fired in 2023 and the entire moves since (siakam, OG etc) were done by a new FO.

They'd be given leniency on the siakam trade since they were painted into a corner by the old guard. But I feel like this pivot and the team we currently have would be viewed as more favourably than it is.

Absolutely, because cleaning up someone elses mess is not expected to be a simple process, however you should never get a pat on the back for cleaning up a mess you made.

You cannot be held responsible for actions that took place before you were with the org. They could still screw things up for sure, and there'd probably be some backlash, but they get leniency coming into a messy situation by no fault of their own. It's why I think the criticism of Weltman in ORL not perfectly turning it around year one is just stupid.

And I know you didn't say it, so this is directed at djsunyc's comment, but no, you don't get to hand wave away screw ups because they "changed direction", they still did it, they are still held responsible. If they made poor decisions trying to build off a flawed core, that speaks to their team building and judgment, and that doesn't go away just cause they decided to finally rip off the bandaid.

This is like giving a criminal a clean slate, because they moved towns to get away from other criminals. No, you're a big boy, you still made your choices, live with them and take responsibility.

Sure and agreed. But moving to the moves in isolation is still an interesting exercise to held hold back previous bias over the past moves.

Which I think is a reasonable way to try and assess them, but it's hard to determine the return on a trade when a big part of it is holding onto those players too long.

Someone needs to build out an AI that analyzes all trades an exec has made historically and weigh them accordingly, so we can just plot in the name of an exec, the trade pieces, and see what they would do in a vacuum

[Drakeem]

I love ho all season long people saying we should sit healthy players out, the argument was Masai doesn't do that. But NOW we're totally going all in on the tank. Man, you are gonna be in for a rude awakening when BI plays the last 20 games of the season lol.

Down to do a signature bet on the over/under on how many games Ingram plays?

[brownbobcat]

Within a season he turned Siakam and OG (both expiring contracts).... into.... Ingram, Quickley, Barrett, Ochai, Walter, Mogbo

That's insanely impressive. Let's not forget that he also turned Jalen McDaniels (who is no longer in the league) into 3 second round picks, including Jamal Shead.

I hate to be that guy, but that's decent and not "insanely impressive". Siakam is a lot more consistent than Ingram, why shouldn't the expected return be something like that?

If you have space under the apron and a willingness to take salary, getting picks is not rocket science. Hell, even the Wizards got a FRP for eating Smart's contract.