How is this not a super Mid plan? what's the pitch on our direction

[ontnut]

I feel like we've had this conversation 1000x somewhere else in this forum. But I COULD be wrong.

[Scase]

I feel like we've had this conversation 1000x somewhere else in this forum. But I COULD be wrong.

For the last 5 or so years...I wonder why?

[mihaic]

I feel like we've had this conversation 1000x somewhere else in this forum. But I COULD be wrong.

Only 974 times.

[elmer_yuck]

Yeah, some of us having been saying all of this for years, they're betting everything on Ingram's questionable health record now because they are desperate. Since the title the Raptors have made the playoffs twice in 6 years and won a single playoff round, and that was with good chunks of title team still mostly intact back in 2020. That's a poor record for any highly paid executive that is looking for a new contract like Masai and Bobby are, there's immense pressure on them to get this team back into the playoffs and show things are moving forward in a positive direction.

They've literally done a worse job then the majority of fans would've on this board...

Id say the consensus of fans on here decisions leaned:

- Kept Norm Powell.

- Traded FVV, OG, Siakam earlier when value was higher for better returns.

- Committed to rebuild earlier (we were 5th worse team = Wemby slot before trading for Poeltl, shouldve went full rebuild)

- Not traded multiple 1st round picks for treadmill moves.

-Not traded top 10 pick for Poeltl.

I feel like there's more no Brainer ones.

If they get fired can't say the didn't earn it.

This board would have picked Sugg over Barnes.

That top ten pick ending up being little Rob Dillingham who hopefully one day will be a 6 man. I would have traded Dillingham for a starter in Poeltl.

13 other teams some with better odds didn't win the Wemby lottery. It's called a lottery for a reason.


The year after he left Toronto Norm Powell played 27 games, next year 40, next year 7. He averages under 2 assists a game. Bad defense. 20 million was too much.

Listening to podcasts can be bad for your health. They are trying to get you raging so you tune in.

Norm played 69 games in 2020 - 42 for Toronto and 27 after the midseason trade to Portland.

[canada_dry]

This AGAIN? This is like the 5th post questioning the same thing lol. The answer remains the same. Whether it works out or not we'll see.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[canada_dry]

We'll see how we look after the offseason. I know the Pacers run to the Finals is a big inspiration right now

Huge difference with us and the Pacers is that Pacers traded away vets for young assets and picks. They traded an allstar Center for a 21 year old guard averaging 14 and 7 who turned into an all-nba player. They traded Malcolm Brogdan to get Aaron Nesmith and a first round pick. They traded Caris Levert to get picks that became Ben Shepard and Andrew Nembhard. They sucked for 3 straight seasons to end up with the 13th, 6th and 8th picks. So when it came time to trade for Siakam they got him for free without affecting their depth.

We’ve done the opposite where we’ve traded picks to save money and get veteran help, then tried to fast track a rebuild. Now we’re paying close to luxury tax for team whose ceiling is a first round knockout.

My guy. You're talking about the pacers. A team thats known for basically NEVER tanking/rebuilding historically, rather building from the middle/retooling. Just check their history dating back to the 90s. Buildung from the middle is something masai tries to do as well, historically. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[nikster]

We have better assets on the roster right now vs when Masai took over.

Posters acting like Masai was lucky to have the collection of talent the Raptors did at the end of 2013 season are delusional

Yeah man, who needs Lowry who is the GROAT, who needs DD who was integral to trading for Kawhi, Or Jonas and Ross who we flipped to get the best big man rotation this team has ever had. He did it all on his own, built the team from the ground up.

Yeah an extremely flawed all star in Derozan and 2 mediocre players in Ross and JV is just so lucky to have. Id only be impressed if he started with a bunch of g league players.

[ash_k]

1. This is not how basketball works.

2. The Pacers are arguably better across the board anyway.

1.Yes, This is how basketball has always worked. Can your coach maximize the talent. Can he find the formula . . Like Atkinson did at Cavs.
2. If you think that Hali+Nembhard +Nesmith are anywhere close to BI+RJ+ IQ talentwise then I don't know what to tell you ..that Pascal is a Bigger talent than Scottie!? Yak and Turner are even as effective polar opposite center..then the bench Mathurin? Toppin? TJ? Really?

Oh god, I thought you were just doing the “we have 3 advantages out of 5 in the starting lineup, so we’re better” thing.

This is much more embarrassing.

Hali and Siakam are better than anyone on the Raptors. If you don’t agree with that premise, there’s no point in listening to anything else you have to say.

If you want to argue about the relative merits of Jak, RJ, and BI vs Nembhard, Neismith, and Turner, that’s fine. We have the “better” players, but theirs are better in their roles.

It is about the talent level, BI and Scottie are "twice" and more as talented as Hali and Pascal , do you realize that? Do you realize the discrepancy in talent between IQ/RJ and Nembhard/Nesmith?
If you can't realize that then not sure if you even fully understand basketball. Cause it is not close but Carlisle has proven to be one of the best coaches in NBA history.
Will see what Darko does with this talent(Top4 talent), he had something similar in his 1st season and we all saw the disaster
(+ one thing though being year3 of Darko, Masai will have the ability to act right away if he doesnt perform especially with now the Malones, Jenkins, Browns waiting in the corner as we just cannot afford to waste that kind of talent again)

[Clutch0z24]

Our best chance would be us losing in the first game of the play ins and win the Lottery like the Mavs and get one of AJ/ Peterson/Boozer added to the play ins team we have....At that point we would have a shot in the future ...

Right now it seems like we are trying to compete because the east is the weakest its ever been in a long time.....But without a major leap from either Barnes/Ingram we are prolly not good enough to even make it out of a weak east.....We would need a big trade to happen for another star guy for us to be able to even compete in the weak east....

[dTox]

I feel like we've had this conversation 1000x somewhere else in this forum. But I COULD be wrong.

Only 974 times.

The fact that people are making these threads year in and year out, is an indicator of the organization than the people making the threads I'd say. This used to be the norm during the BC years, and it looks like it's trending again over the past 4 or so years

[M3tro]

They've literally done a worse job then the majority of fans would've on this board...

Id say the consensus of fans on here decisions leaned:

- Kept Norm Powell.

- Traded FVV, OG, Siakam earlier when value was higher for better returns.

- Committed to rebuild earlier (we were 5th worse team = Wemby slot before trading for Poeltl, shouldve went full rebuild)

- Not traded multiple 1st round picks for treadmill moves.

-Not traded top 10 pick for Poeltl.

I feel like there's more no Brainer ones.

If they get fired can't say the didn't earn it.

This board would have picked Sugg over Barnes.

That top ten pick ending up being little Rob Dillingham who hopefully one day will be a 6 man. I would have traded Dillingham for a starter in Poeltl.

13 other teams some with better odds didn't win the Wemby lottery. It's called a lottery for a reason.


The year after he left Toronto Norm Powell played 27 games, next year 40, next year 7. He averages under 2 assists a game. Bad defense. 20 million was too much.

Listening to podcasts can be bad for your health. They are trying to get you raging so you tune in.

Norm played 69 games in 2020 - 42 for Toronto and 27 after the midseason trade to Portland.

Don't let the facts get in the way of an argument...

[Shakril]

This board would have picked Sugg over Barnes.

That top ten pick ending up being little Rob Dillingham who hopefully one day will be a 6 man. I would have traded Dillingham for a starter in Poeltl.

13 other teams some with better odds didn't win the Wemby lottery. It's called a lottery for a reason.


The year after he left Toronto Norm Powell played 27 games, next year 40, next year 7. He averages under 2 assists a game. Bad defense. 20 million was too much.

Listening to podcasts can be bad for your health. They are trying to get you raging so you tune in.

Norm played 69 games in 2020 - 42 for Toronto and 27 after the midseason trade to Portland.

Don't let the facts get in the way of an argument...

Problem with this kind of arguments is, that everybody things they knows everything better - after the fact. Sometimes things dont work out, reset and move on and thats what Masai did. And when the Barnes era doesnt work, he will reset again or whoever will be GM. People are acting as if we were the Kings.

[deck]

We have better assets on the roster right now vs when Masai took over.

Posters acting like Masai was lucky to have the collection of talent the Raptors did at the end of 2013 season are delusional

Yeah man, who needs Lowry who is the GROAT, who needs DD who was integral to trading for Kawhi, Or Jonas and Ross who we flipped to get the best big man rotation this team has ever had. He did it all on his own, built the team from the ground up.

Lowry wasn't the GROAT yet in 2013. DeRozan is likely one of our most valuable draft picks in franchise history, but he wasn't a surefire superstar in 2013.

No one is saying Masai didn't inherit assets, but you've been making this claim persistently that the lead-up to 2019 is drastically different than where we are now, or that the approach to get to the 2013 roster was drastically different. Neither of these points of view are true, and your perspective seems disingenuous as an attempt to paint where we were in 2013 as an example of 'rebuilding properly'. This is ridiculous to me when we actually look at the quality of the assets we had accumulated via the rebuild at that time vs. the assets we have now.

Much of the success of the DD / Lowry years came from the moves that were made after Masai took over. The value we got back in trading Bargnani, Vazquez, and our drafting success after having left the lottery. To think that the real success was in the value of assets like JV and Ross is hilarious.

So I will say it again, we have similar or better assets on the roster right now than we did in 2013.

[TorontoBarneys]

There is no long-term plan. There hasn't been since we won the championship.

[ash_k]

Yeah, some of us having been saying all of this for years, they're betting everything on Ingram's questionable health record now because they are desperate. Since the title the Raptors have made the playoffs twice in 6 years and won a single playoff round, and that was with good chunks of title team still mostly intact back in 2020. That's a poor record for any highly paid executive that is looking for a new contract like Masai and Bobby are, there's immense pressure on them to get this team back into the playoffs and show things are moving forward in a positive direction.

They've literally done a worse job then the majority of fans would've on this board...

Id say the consensus of fans on here decisions leaned:

- Kept Norm Powell.

- Traded FVV, OG, Siakam earlier when value was higher for better returns.

- Committed to rebuild earlier (we were 5th worse team = Wemby slot before trading for Poeltl, shouldve went full rebuild)

- Not traded multiple 1st round picks for treadmill moves.

-Not traded top 10 pick for Poeltl.

I feel like there's more no Brainer ones.

If they get fired can't say the didn't earn it.

This board would have picked Sugg over Barnes.

That top ten pick ending up being little Rob Dillingham who hopefully one day will be a 6 man. I would have traded Dillingham for a starter in Poeltl.

13 other teams some with better odds didn't win the Wemby lottery. It's called a lottery for a reason.


The year after he left Toronto Norm Powell played 27 games, next year 40, next year 7. He averages under 2 assists a game. Bad defense. 20 million was too much.

Listening to podcasts can be bad for your health. They are trying to get you raging so you tune in.

Nothing but facts were told.
And one day, i want those posters to post Trades and players they think those kinds of players could have fetched.
Some folks would have traded FVV for "prospect" Terence Mann(!) at the time. Might as well save the money and sign a WorldCup MVP like Schroeder.
I love OG but IQ and RJ for him remains an amazing trade package.
Pascal for now BI, Jakobe and Ochai : all of them are younger so what is left to complain about?!

[Psubs]

Why is this current roster viewed as the final product?

Exactly

PG Lowry - FVV
SG Derozan - Delon
SF Ross - Powell
PF Siakam - CJMiles - Bruno
C Poeltl - JV

Trade for Ibaka, Kawhi and Marc Gasol!

I would say that Brandon Ingram is the first move.

[Troubadour]

We'll see how we look after the offseason. I know the Pacers run to the Finals is a big inspiration right now

Ya the thing with the Pacers though they were pretty deep and loaded with depth + promising prospects /young guys

Haliburton, Nembhard, Nesmith, Mathurin, Walker etc.

and quality vets now - Turner, Siakam, Toppin

I know not all of them are contributing as part of the current run right now but I remember looking at their roster thinking "damn they might be good now and in the future theyre loaded with quality talent and potential"

Are our prospects of the same quality?

I like that Haliburton is a promising prospect and Toppin is a quality veteran and they're from the same draft class.

[JB7]

Anyone who thinks RealGM commenters would do a better job running an NBA franchise than Masai can’t be taken seriously

Read through this entire thread, and this was by far the best and most accurate comment.

[Raptors Realtor]

I feel like we've had this conversation 1000x somewhere else in this forum. But I COULD be wrong.

For the last 5 or so years...I wonder why?

Likely because some posters have unrealistic expectations, and expect us to be contenders every year, not realizing all teams go through cycles. Thus, why there are different championship teams every season.

[OakleyDokely]

We will see if we can make the jump to a 40+ win team this season. If we do, we continue adding to the core like the Pacers, Knicks etc have done. If we don't, then major decisions need to be made, we take another step back and take another shot at the draft lottery. As long as you have your own picks, you can pivot during or after the season based on the results.