GT: Raptors (7-5) @ Pacers (1-11) | Nov 15th 7:00 EST

[mihaic]

As for Ochai maybe we pay him GTJ money next year. No rush for now.

[Kingsway_fan]

With YAK getting back to form, we will be challenging for top 4 East ... no team in the conference scares me ... if we can stay healthy, a Blue Jays type run is there for us... conference wise.

[Boogie!]

Ingram hate makes no sense

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The only weak links on this team right now are Walter and dick. Easy fix is just to play battle, send Jakobe to the gleague, keep dick on a short leash and give Ochai a shot to return to last years level, but darko is gonna Darko.

Everyone else is doing what they’re supposed to do. Only thing that worries me about Ingram is his 3 point shooting but he has a track record. His mid range game has been elite to the point I’m surprised it’s not a discussion around the league in the vein of demar, durant, kawhi etc Also, I’m worried about what’s gonna happen/how we’re gonna play when the inevitable injury hits. Barnes, quickley and rj are gonna have to elevate their games.

[VanWest82]

The only weak links on this team right now are Walter and dick.

JKW is definitely a weak link but it's worth noting that Gradey is a team leading +84 on the season. I'll be the first to point to sss but it can't be argued that line ups with Gradey have been killing it. And he isn't just leading the team on that front, he's got many inches to spare. Next best are Battle +64, Mamu +62, Shead +41, Scottie, +34. It's not close.

[HangTime]

Ingram I expected in 35-40 range honestly. What I don't understand is why we pay Temple. It's not my money but if I were owner I would invent a player's coach title and not pay the tax and keep him in that role. Perhaps that's what they will do, who knows

I've been calling for 2-3 player-coach positions on the roster.
They are treated similar to two-way contracts, but say 20 games of activity (rather than 50) minimum salary, that doesn't affect the cap.

If they want to play more than 20 game, the teams can convert/negotiate the conversion, the topped off salary gets added to the cap sheet.

These contracts are for guys that are transitioning out of the league, or want to give coaching a real shot.
They can up the practice intensity, when others need extended rest, and a 20 man roster (3 two-ways, 2 player-coach) doesn't seem crazy.

[Boogie!]

The only weak links on this team right now are Walter and dick.

JKW is definitely a weak link but it's worth noting that Gradey is a team leading +84 on the season. I'll be the first to point to sss but it can't be argued that line ups with Gradey have been killing it. And he isn't just leading the team on that front, he's got many inches to spare.

plus minus without any other context is unreliable. The implication is that if we had someone else out there instead of gradey we’d be worse and I don’t see it. If they had someone to just space the floor and hit 3s at a high rate and not do anything stupid, he’d be more impactful. Is there any way to look at who most of his minutes are with?

[mihaic]

Ingram I expected in 35-40 range honestly. What I don't understand is why we pay Temple. It's not my money but if I were owner I would invent a player's coach title and not pay the tax and keep him in that role. Perhaps that's what they will do, who knows

I've been calling for 2-3 player-coach positions on the roster.
They are treated similar to two-way contracts, but say 20 games of activity (rather than 50) minimum salary, that doesn't affect the cap.

If they want to play more than 20 game, the teams can convert/negotiate the conversion, the topped off salary gets added to the cap sheet.

These contracts are for guys that are transitioning out of the league, or want to give coaching a real shot.
They can up the practice intensity, when others need extended rest, and a 20 man roster (3 two-ways, 2 player-coach) doesn't seem crazy.

Even if they had 1 such position it would be good.

[DreamTeam09]

Ingram I expected in 35-40 range honestly. What I don't understand is why we pay Temple. It's not my money but if I were owner I would invent a player's coach title and not pay the tax and keep him in that role. Perhaps that's what they will do, who knows

I believe he's a union rep, pretty high up too if I'm not mistaken, and you have to be an active NBAer to be in that position.
Minimum contracts are paid by the league, or at least half if I'm not mistaken once again,
Plus this team needs an older vet in the Haslem role,
Still he probably ends up traded at some point

[VanWest82]

The only weak links on this team right now are Walter and dick.

JKW is definitely a weak link but it's worth noting that Gradey is a team leading +84 on the season. I'll be the first to point to sss but it can't be argued that line ups with Gradey have been killing it. And he isn't just leading the team on that front, he's got many inches to spare.

plus minus without any other context is unreliable. The implication is that if we had someone else out there instead of gradey we’d be worse and I don’t see it. If they had someone to just space the floor and hit 3s at a high rate and not do anything stupid, he’d be more impactful. Is there any way to look at who most of his minutes are with?

Gradey's shooting 37.5% on threes so far this year and the one thing he's undeniably providing whether he's making shots or not is spacing. Opponents guard him. You can see it with the way he draws attention on cuts, drives, etc. Again, it's sss but I think you'd have a really hard time making the case that those line ups would have performed much better with someone else. They've just been too productive.

As for who he play with...it's everyone.

[GLF]

How about predicting BI would be worth 25-30M and not massively overpaying. We could have kept the pick and got the player also.

Yeah we've successfully got rid of the a lot of the negative trolls on this board lately. You're set to be next.

Damn so that’s what happened to Scase

Lol good riddance. I saw him on Reddit when Raptors were losing and were 1-4 funny enough. He was talking so much **** and gassing himself for being right about this team lol. Since they started winning he’s been non existent. He was so clearly a troll lol. Never had anything positive to say and always disappeared when things went well or when a player he hates had a good stretch of play. But let Raptors lose or a player he hates play badly and he couldn’t wait to post about it lol

[Godaddycurse]

JKW is definitely a weak link but it's worth noting that Gradey is a team leading +84 on the season. I'll be the first to point to sss but it can't be argued that line ups with Gradey have been killing it. And he isn't just leading the team on that front, he's got many inches to spare.

plus minus without any other context is unreliable. The implication is that if we had someone else out there instead of gradey we’d be worse and I don’t see it. If they had someone to just space the floor and hit 3s at a high rate and not do anything stupid, he’d be more impactful. Is there any way to look at who most of his minutes are with?

Gradey's shooting 37.5% on threes so far this year and the one thing he's undeniably providing whether he's making shots or not is spacing. Opponents guard him. You can see it with the way he draws attention on cuts, drives, etc. Again, it's sss but I think you'd have a really hard time making the case that those line ups would have performed much better with someone else. They've just been too productive.

As for who he play with...it's everyone.

the DRTG is the big surprise. i dont know if my eye tests says he's that much better of a defender this year

[mihaic]

Yeah we've successfully got rid of the a lot of the negative trolls on this board lately. You're set to be next.

Damn so that’s what happened to Scase

Lol good riddance. I saw him on Reddit when Raptors were losing and were 1-4 funny enough. He was talking so much **** and gassing himself for being right about this team lol. Since they started winning he’s been non existent. He was so clearly a troll lol. Never had anything positive to say and always disappeared when things went well or when a player he hates had a good stretch of play. But let Raptors lose or a player he hates play badly and he couldn’t wait to post about it lol

Look some people are super negative, that's fine. Not all are trolls. But some people just can't admit when they're wrong. It's so easy to say 'hey my bad I was wrong' but they won't. Their debate is usually a one way street lol not much listening to others. Hard to discuss wit them. I think he is one of those

[VanWest82]

the DRTG is the big surprise. i dont know if my eye tests says he's that much better of a defender this year

He's not and it's super frustrating to watch sometimes, but I guess the takeaway is it's not killing those line ups; rather, we're succeeding in spite of that weakness and he's pretty clearly helping on the other end.

Darko still needs to hold him accountable which he's doing, but calling for his benching in favour of Battle or whomever isn't justified.

[mihaic]

plus minus without any other context is unreliable. The implication is that if we had someone else out there instead of gradey we’d be worse and I don’t see it. If they had someone to just space the floor and hit 3s at a high rate and not do anything stupid, he’d be more impactful. Is there any way to look at who most of his minutes are with?

Gradey's shooting 37.5% on threes so far this year and the one thing he's undeniably providing whether he's making shots or not is spacing. Opponents guard him. You can see it with the way he draws attention on cuts, drives, etc. Again, it's sss but I think you'd have a really hard time making the case that those line ups would have performed much better with someone else. They've just been too productive.

As for who he play with...it's everyone.

the DRTG is the big surprise. i dont know if my eye tests says he's that much better of a defender this year

My eye test says he is improved. More active hands and better positioning which removes that 'one step late' feeling.

Granted he is still occasionally lost, but less. Sometimes double teams and he shouldn't. And still the strength is not there, but better than last year.

He is on an ascending path, I'd keep him unless we clearly improve a position and need to add him as compensation. Meaning him and Quick or RJ and picks for a very good guard.

Offensively, no complaints. He is mixing well the 3s, drives and cuts and moves well without the ball. A class above Ochai or Walter.

[GLF]

Damn so that’s what happened to Scase

Lol good riddance. I saw him on Reddit when Raptors were losing and were 1-4 funny enough. He was talking so much **** and gassing himself for being right about this team lol. Since they started winning he’s been non existent. He was so clearly a troll lol. Never had anything positive to say and always disappeared when things went well or when a player he hates had a good stretch of play. But let Raptors lose or a player he hates play badly and he couldn’t wait to post about it lol

Look some people are super negative, that's fine. Not all are trolls. But some people just can't admit when they're wrong. It's so easy to say 'hey my bad I was wrong' but they won't. Their debate is usually a one way street lol not much listening to others. Hard to discuss wit them. I think he is one of those

You are right. Not all negative posters are trolls. But I just can’t understand how one can call themselves a fan of a team and only ever speak on said team when they are struggling or players are playing badly. It comes across like they get joy in seeing the team and players struggle and are annoyed when they are good. Those posters always come across like they care more about being right than the actual team’s success. I don’t see how that can be a fan. But hey, to each their own. I’m just glad that level of negativity is gone.

[Tor_Raps]

Ingram I expected in 35-40 range honestly. What I don't understand is why we pay Temple. It's not my money but if I were owner I would invent a player's coach title and not pay the tax and keep him in that role. Perhaps that's what they will do, who knows

For players like temple, the NBA covers half of his salary.

[GLF]

the DRTG is the big surprise. i dont know if my eye tests says he's that much better of a defender this year

He's not and it's super frustrating to watch sometimes, but I guess the takeaway is it's not killing those line ups; rather, we're succeeding in spite of that weakness and he's pretty clearly helping on the other end.

Darko still needs to hold him accountable which he's doing, but calling for his benching in favour of Battle or whomever isn't justified.

Thank you! I said this in another thread but the numbers don’t lie. People on here can hate Gradey all they want, the numbers show he’s been a positive player all season so far. He isn’t a good defender at all, but he also isn’t the first bad defender to be able be hidden and hold his own enough that he doesn’t tank lineups on defence. That is what Gradey is doing. He also tries like heck on that end. He just doesn’t have the lateral quicks and feel for the game on that end. He is clearly the 9th man and he should be. If people want him lower in the hierarchy the Raptors need to bring in someone better than him bc currently it’s not Ochai or Walter. I care way more about a player impacting winning and being a positive player for the team than their individual stats or shortcomings.

[Raps in 4]

Pacers are tanking. Should be an easy W.

They actually arent tanking. They've just hit a lot of injuries and then you remove Halliburton + Turner from the roster, this is what they look like it seems like.

Its funny because Indiana looked like a 13 deep roster last year but majority of these guys are playing like crap.

People underrated Haliburton's impact because he wasn't a score-first PG. In the words of James Harden, "he is the system". Losing Turner was also huge. I think it was pretty obvious they'd suck this year.

[VanWest82]

the DRTG is the big surprise. i dont know if my eye tests says he's that much better of a defender this year

He's not and it's super frustrating to watch sometimes, but I guess the takeaway is it's not killing those line ups; rather, we're succeeding in spite of that weakness and he's pretty clearly helping on the other end.

Darko still needs to hold him accountable which he's doing, but calling for his benching in favour of Battle or whomever isn't justified.

Thank you! I said this in another thread but the numbers don’t lie. People on here can hate Gradey all they want, the numbers show he’s been a positive player all season so far. He isn’t a good defender at all, but he also isn’t the first bad defender to be able be hidden and hold his own enough that he doesn’t tank lineups on defence. That is what Gradey is doing. He also tries like heck on that end. He just doesn’t have the lateral quicks and feel for the game on that end. He is clearly the 9th man and he should be. If people want him lower in the hierarchy the Raptors need to bring in someone better than him bc currently it’s not Ochai or Walter. I care way more about a player impacting winning and being a positive player for the team than their individual stats or shortcomings.

Yup. I also care about potential. We're a good team this year but not so good that we should ignore 6'8 21 yr olds with multi-dimensional skill sets. Some of Gradey's shortcomings (e.g. strength and awareness) will get better with time. In the meantime, he's earning his mins.

[Brinbe]

the DRTG is the big surprise. i dont know if my eye tests says he's that much better of a defender this year

He's not and it's super frustrating to watch sometimes, but I guess the takeaway is it's not killing those line ups; rather, we're succeeding in spite of that weakness and he's pretty clearly helping on the other end.

Darko still needs to hold him accountable which he's doing, but calling for his benching in favour of Battle or whomever isn't justified.

Thank you! I said this in another thread but the numbers don’t lie. People on here can hate Gradey all they want, the numbers show he’s been a positive player all season so far. He isn’t a good defender at all, but he also isn’t the first bad defender to be able be hidden and hold his own enough that he doesn’t tank lineups on defence. That is what Gradey is doing. He also tries like heck on that end. He just doesn’t have the lateral quicks and feel for the game on that end. He is clearly the 9th man and he should be. If people want him lower in the hierarchy the Raptors need to bring in someone better than him bc currently it’s not Ochai or Walter. I care way more about a player impacting winning and being a positive player for the team than their individual stats or shortcomings.

yep, gradey has been totally okay in his current role. ususally a plus-positive player every night at this point. nothing amazing right now but not a big negative like walter has been. reminds me of boucher/precious getting unfairly lumped together because they shared a lot of minutes.

walter clearly needs some 905 time to clear his head and get his game going in a positive direction as he's scuffling right now. in the meantime, throw ochai out there or y'know, give battle the increased rotation mins he deserves.