The real reasons we lost last night

[Death Knight]

Nice post but you're missing a major point, pardon the pun. Calderon wasn't able to prevent the Piston PG/SGs from breaking him down at will which forced help early in the clock. There goes our defense.

That is only part of it. There are many other times when the off the ball defender went to help on a situation that wasn't even necessary. At times, the Raptors weren't discipline enough to just stay with their man and take away passing lanes. This is when guys aren't beat off the dribble and were about the force a Piston's player to shoot over them (a tough shot), but the Raptors helped unnecessarily and bailed them out by allowing that Piston's player to find the open man.

[Death Knight]

Has anyone said that Detroit is a better team? Because I think that had a lot to do with it.

The better team doesn't always win. If so, then the best team in the NBA would go 82-0. The Pistons have also lost 7 games for a reason. To use "the opponent is just better" excuse is nonsense.

[DivineRight]

I think the main reason why we lost is that Stuckey is better than Calderon. We really missed Ford.

We really missed Garbo defensively in the 2nd half as well, the points where Moon missed some hasty jumpers probably would have gone differently had Garbo had the ball in his hands.

I wonder if AK trade scenarios involving Moon, Parker and Rasho could be revisited? AK/Collins for those three maybe?

Ford/Calderon
Kapono/Delfino
AK/Joey/Garbo
Bosh/Hump
Drea/Collins

If Martin is added, it works in the trade checker.

I love that trade scenario! Plus Kapono and Delfino would get more minutes and probably blossom from it. AP should be traded this year as his age has already started to show. Moon is 27 and the experiment is pretty much over. He's basically a good bench player. And heck, if Utah becomes disappointed with him, they could always waive him. Rasho isn't even playing anymore. Great trade scenario!

[curryfries]

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I love that trade scenario! Plus Kapono and Delfino would get more minutes and probably blossom from it. AP should be traded this year as his age has already started to show. Moon is 27 and the experiment is pretty much over. He's basically a good bench player. And heck, if Utah becomes disappointed with him, they could always waive him. Rasho isn't even playing anymore. Great trade scenario!

Moon would take one jump shot in a game with Utah and Jerry Sloan would personally drive his butt to the Harlem Globe Trotters practise facility and tell him never to return.

[radeonboy]

I dunno, once Dixon it the floor at the start of the 4th quarter, started chucking, and making bad passes, we got burrned by the Pistons. We were down like 2, and then it went back up to 10 within like less than 1 minute. We couldn't recover after that.

Thats what screwed our chances. This is not mentioning how some of our players didn't even show up.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

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The better team doesn't always win. If so, then the best team in the NBA would go 82-0. The Pistons have also lost 7 games for a reason. To use "the opponent is just better" excuse is nonsense.

^ yes and no, because the reason why we get beat by teams like Detroit is because we need work in probably almost all areas mentioned, and them, not so much. that's part of what makes the better than us. We might not lose every game against them but things in these this thread are mostly symptoms of the root problem we when lose to teams that are better than us. Which is they are better than us. We could have played this game against the Cavs or pacers and won. Calderon being worked by Billups the main thing. and Billups is better than Jose, imo. TJ would have been better this game, wished he was there.

I understand the importance to talking about this stuff because improving in those areas is what will help us become the better team.

But tomorrow we could be the same team with the same issues and win. Some times the difference you between winning and losing is your opponent letting you make the mistakes you are prone to making or not. The best teams won't. When we lose like this to better teams it's good to have these discussions because it really shows the holes, more so than when we lose to teams like Seattle.

[DivineRight]

lol wow anticon whos the troll now your askin why someone thats injured didnt play more minutes haha.. rasho is a champ.. and yes we had alot of chances to get a decent sg-sf but our manager is an italian cupcake and he got another italian fruit for the team yes bargnani.. what has he proven he can score.. so fkn what.. alot of players can.. the good ones and great ones can also play d and bargs cant.. and never will why.. cause hes a p.ussy and always will be period... i dont hate bargs but i dont like him either.. all im sayin is that we could have had roy instead of bargs.. and that would have made us a way better team.. WAY better team

Roy wont be in the league once's he's 28. His style of play wears down his already crippling body. Instead of stuffing your face with pizza you should have paid attention to the memo teams got on him: STAY AWAY FROM HIM. HE HAS TERRIBLE KNEES. NO GOOD IN THE LONG TERM.

[Grizzled]

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Calderon and Nash have extremely different styles of play...sure they both pass the ball but come on Nash takes more risks in a game than calderon does all season. And Ast/to is such an overated stat...it doesn't mean anything...3/1 is where I want my PG to be.

Was Nash that aggressive early in his career? I don

[DivineRight]

yea cause wallace expected bargs to get 2 quick offensive fouls and be out of the game lol but LIKE I SAID BARGS PLAYED WELL LASTNITE lol.. ppl need to listen.. all im sayin is bargs is a wimp.. period.. and yes i will say it again ANYONE CAN SCORE

if anyone can score why didn't the rest of the team. there were a lot of players who had a poor offensive showing and that's primarily the reason we lost. you need to score in order to get points, you know that right?

[knickerbocker2k2]

Some of the posts in here are ridicolous. Blaming Bargs & Blaming Calderon. You are missing the point of the original poster. Those where our GOOD Players.

1) Calderon defense on Billups was not great, but it was NOT HORRIBLE as some of you say. Billups is a GREAT player. He shot 7/14 and had 9 assists. That is what great players do. Calderon didn't play great defense, but it is not the reason we lost. Billups is difficult matchup. He is going to get his. Plus in the NBA there is only few players who can cover the other teams great players 1-1. When you shutdown the opposition, its because of the good team defense. This team doesn't know the word of team defense. How many times did calderon steer Billups to the double team, only for Bosh/Bargs to look away and allow layup.

2) Calderon is not a starter and we miss TJ. This arguement is stupid. Calderon has being playing great. He had 7/13 & 9 assists. How come you guys aren't saying he was abusing Billups? We miss TJ, because we don't have Calderon coming off the bench. We have huge dropoff with Dixon/Murray. Before we expected to make runs when our bench comes in, now we are hoping not have huge deficit. If we decided Murray is not capable backup PG, why is he still on the roster. BC is letting the ball drop on this.

3) Our starting SG/SF are not getting the job done. Parker is too inconsistent lately. Moon is not offensive player. I think we have to start Kapono. Parker/Kapono are too good shooters to be both missing shots at same time. If parker is not shooting the ball well, our perimeter shooting is horrible. This affects Bosh the most as they are shading him with double teams.

One criticism of Calderon nobody is bringing up is the fact he is just dribbling for 15secs at the top without even trying to do anything. They are trying to set something up, I know, but you have to initiate the offense faster. In addition, unlike TJ, he doesn't know when his teammates aren't getting the job done. He was playing great and shooting the ball well, but we went like 5possesions in a span where we didn't score and he was very passive and just looking to pass. He should be trying to score, especially when Bosh/Parker where struggling with their shots.

[SpaceJam]

Instead of having five guys that can play one postition we should have 1 or 2 really effective, instant Offence and and some Defense. I always though tha AP wasnt playing his full ability, kind of layed back. But i think its time for the Euro MVP to play like an MVP for real. We need more than 10 points a game from our 2 guard. More like 14 or 15. And i really think we need a young guy at that position.

[rdtx2005]

the problems continue for the Raptors.. the offense has stagnated.. and Jose refuses to create.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

the problems continue for the Raptors.. the offense has stagnated.. and Jose refuses to create.

I don't think it was his offense that was the problem, but i understand if you don't grind your axe enough it gets dull.

[Stealth68]

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Good job all around on this thread. I like the post above because it does underscore our virtual inexperience agains teams like Boston and Detroit. However, I think the main points of what the OP stated need to be addressed if we don't want this inexperinece label to be turned into 'not-good-enough' in 2 or 3 years time. We do need a near all-star type 2 or 3 on this team. I like the suggestion of Jefferson from NJ. Who else could be made available? The question is does BC make that type of move now by trading in our depth with a package of a 3 for 1 or a 3-for 2 deal, or wait until the 09' offseason? I think that patience has to be exhibited because that's how many short-term fixes turn inti long-term cap and roster inflexibility. Our bigs will be fine with that growing experince of playing together. If it doesn't improve by 09' to the championship caliber standrads we want, then BC will have some decisions with Bosh and Bargs at hand for that Defensive interior presence. The PGs should be fine with Ford's return. But that sore spot with the SG/SF position is where we can package some depth for a quality starting guy. Maybe even give Graham a crack there one more time before he's totally shipped out. We don't realize the job that Garbo did there last year. He was never the longterm solution, but he was better than what we're getting there now.

Thank you for the acknowledgement... But what we missed yesterday was a player who could penetrate the defense at will. TJ was sorely missed... The team did not collectively drive to the basket as they had against New Orleans.

This is same team beat has beaten Dallas, NO and San Antonio... They can do it they just have to learn that their are no nights off and that comes with experience... it took a lot of those players on Detroit a while to develop that mentality... Tough games like yesterday win or lose will teach Toronto.

[5DOM]

the problems continue for the Raptors.. the offense has stagnated.. and Jose refuses to create.

+1000000000000000000.

when the shots are not falling for other players, all he can do is take a jumper himself and hope he makes one. he HAS the ability to drive in but always refuses to do so.

[rdtx2005]

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+1000000000000000000.

when the shots are not falling for other players, all he can do is take a jumper himself and hope he makes one. he HAS the ability to drive in but always refuses to do so.

there must be some invisible force field that is blocking Jose from driving to create plays..

must be..

[El Presidente]

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+1000000000000000000.

when the shots are not falling for other players, all he can do is take a jumper himself and hope he makes one. he HAS the ability to drive in but always refuses to do so.

It's easy to criticize Jose for not creating and to some extent the criticism is warranted, especially on the break. But let's not forget that he doesn't have much to work with when it comes to set plays; we waste about 12 seconds of each possession just getting the high pick `n roll ready and the rest of the time adjusting to the defensive switch if it happens.

We need more `out` options in our sets meaning that if the initial switch happens we need to have an alternate plan than just kick it out and try all over again. IMHO TJ`s better at just breaking the defense down and creating easy opportunities than Jose which would`ve helped last night against a great defensive team like Detroit which focuses on shutting you down as a team rather than individually.

If you`re expecting Jose to break down a PG by driving to the rim and kicking it out for a three or dish down low for PF layups on a consistent basis, its not going to happen, that`s not his game. He`s a PG that can run an offense provided you have an offense, which we don`t.

[Bankai]

I think someone put it best a while back when he said this team is mostly comprised of 6th men. I mean all of the Raptors are good, but other than Bosh and maybe Forderon do you think the rest of them would be able to start on most teams? Most likely they will be coming off the bench and if lucky be THAT team's 6th man. Ill say it again, Id gladly get rid of 1/2 or so of our Wing Depth for a Capable Borderline All Star Wing.

[Grizzled]

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+1000000000000000000.

when the shots are not falling for other players, all he can do is take a jumper himself and hope he makes one. he HAS the ability to drive in but always refuses to do so.

Hope he make one? Do you know that he

[prototype]

The thing about Calderon's defense is that he is being ask to play 40+ minutes now that Ford is gone. With those minutes in effect some players tend to slack on defense so they would have more energy for the offensive side. Had he been coming off the bench or know Ford will be getting half the minutes, we probably could have stopped a lot more of Billups and Stuckey's shot.

I agree about the wing players as well. Especially now that Parker lost his shooting touch, As weird as this may seem I think Graham should start. He is automatic every time he is open for a shot unlike Moon. And we could run those Parker cuts for him instead of having him drive while handling the ball we'll be fine.

About Bosh is that he tends to try to do too much and not be decisive when he's scared. Evident every time he's against big teams and in the playoffs last year.