Don't blame everything on Sam

[Dogbert]

Sometimes the sign of a good coach is dealing with malcontents like Carter, Alston and James. It brings more respect from the rest of the players, and they will play better for you because of it.

Malcontents like VC and Alston? Has VC ever done anything in the nets dressing room to warrant being called a malcontent? Has Alston done anything in Houston to warrant being called a malcontent.

Maybe you aren't old enough to remember this, but VC pouted his way off the Raptors like a little baby. He never played hard for Sam Mitchell, never even tried to play to his potential. Alston also acted quite childish during his year in Toronto as well. They were both malcontents in Toronto, probably because of what a bad team it was.

[ForeverTFC]

You honestly believe a better coach would make these guys as good as Boston and Detroit (or basically, a contender)?

Talk about being delusional.

Did i ever put down the word contender, boston or detroit anywhere?

Yes a better coach will get the maximum output from this team. We have too many talents that dont get used. Other than a lack of plays and gameplan how do you explain this.

Also you chose to ignore my comment on our top 5 front court in the league. Or arguably top 3 PG in our conference.

[Dogbert]

yeah but those coaches are actually being held accountable and getting fired regardless of how untalented their rosters are

So you want him fired...even though there isn't a valid reason for him to be fired?

Dude, you aren't making any sense.

[08HEMI]

I think you and your buddies should comprise our next coaching staff. So how about it?

Sure no problem, fire Sam and promote Jay Triano sounds good to me

[Guy Smiley]

Sam should be fired for the same reason management has him taking media relation courses.

Many coaches before him have been fired for the very things Sam continues to exhibit.

My biggest complaints with Sam have been off the court and they way he carries himself and represents the Raptor brand.

FIRE SAM!

I know it probably isn't a good time to criticize Sam since the Raptors just lost. It is even worse to complain about him after a win because well winning is what it is all about. I should apologize for raising concerns about Sam during the season because that is inappropriate but the timing is even worse in the off-season when the team isn't playing and Sam has no control over the players.

I'm not really sure if there is ever a time to complain about Sam and his coaching because there is no way to truly measure his worth. Perhaps if I sit on the fence that would be better.

Oh well.

FIRE SAM!!!

FIRE SAM!!!!

{French Accent] FIRE SAM!!!!!! [/French Accent]

Where there is smoke... FIRE SAM!!!!

F to the I to the R to the E !!!

FIRE SAM!

I missed the game tonight because I had a meeting. Sam was clearly to blame!!1

FIRE SAM!!

[Dogbert]

You honestly believe a better coach would make these guys as good as Boston and Detroit (or basically, a contender)?

Talk about being delusional.

Did i ever put down the word contender, boston or detroit anywhere?

Yes a better coach will get the maximum output from this team. We have too many talents that dont get used. Other than a lack of plays and gameplan how do you explain this.

Also you chose to ignore my comment on our top 5 front court in the league. Or arguably top 3 PG in our conference.

I didn't ignore it. I just think it's quite clear that despite their good PG, and PF/C combo, they are not an elite team due to their weakness at the guard positions. No coach would make this team what you are hoping it could be. They need different players for that.

[ForeverTFC]

Maybe you aren't old enough to remember this, but VC pouted his way off the Raptors like a little baby. He never played hard for Sam Mitchell, never even tried to play to his potential. Alston also acted quite childish during his year in Toronto as well. They were both malcontents in Toronto, probably because of what a bad team it was.

Actually im old enough to remember VC first game in a Raps uniform. Anyone who followed the Raptors from the beginning of his career knew that Vince's time was done here. Vince gave his all for this team, but after 4 coaching changes do you really expect him to still be in the city. Chris Bosh would leave if he was in the same situation.

I challenge you to give me one incident that is documented that Alston acted childish in his time in Toronto other than the quitting incident.

Your comments make me think that MAYBE you werent old enough to see Butch Carter coach, or Lenny Wilkens coach, because you would see the difference between an elite coach and Sam Mitchell.

[A_wildstabatanything]

You honestly believe a better coach would make these guys as good as Boston and Detroit (or basically, a contender)?

Talk about being delusional.

A coaching change isn't going to turn the Raptors into an elite team, but I think we'd be more consistent under a stable hand.

With Mitchell removed BC ends up on the hotseat. It's time for Colangelo to face some heated criticism. As long as Sam remains he still has a scapegoat.

[JN]

Two people on this board get a free pass most of the time for no reason:
AB
BC

SM gets **** on usually for no reason.

I'm glad that we have BC going forward, but Christ he hasn't given Sam a roster that should be expected to be better then 47-35,41-41, or 3-2.

If you have an issue with our records then
a) You need to start making BC accountable as well
or
b) Realize the team is not that talented.

BC us great to have going forward. But not everyhting he has done has been gold. He has not put together a super roster, that should make us an elite team. He has put together a slightly above average team, with holes. that Sam had molded to basically meet such expectations.

[08HEMI]

Maybe you aren't old enough to remember this, but VC pouted his way off the Raptors like a little baby. He never played hard for Sam Mitchell, never even tried to play to his potential. Alston also acted quite childish during his year in Toronto as well. They were both malcontents in Toronto, probably because of what a bad team it was.

Actually im old enough to remember VC first game in a Raps uniform. Anyone who followed the Raptors from the beginning of his career knew that Vince's time was done here. Vince gave his all for this team, but after 4 coaching changes do you really expect him to still be in the city. Chris Bosh would leave if he was in the same situation.

I challenge you to give me one incident that is documented that Alston acted childish in his time in Toronto other than the quitting incident.

Your comments make me think that MAYBE you werent old enough to see Butch Carter coach, or Lenny Wilkens coach, because you would see the difference between an elite coach and Sam Mitchell.

oddly enough Alston has not been a problem in the locker room with Houston and he wasn't in Miami before he came here either.

Strange, ya I remember the time Sam kicked Rafer off the bench and they had to restrain him before him and alston almost got in a fist fight on our bench on national television.

good times lol

[JN]

You honestly believe a better coach would make these guys as good as Boston and Detroit (or basically, a contender)?

Talk about being delusional.

A coaching change isn't going to turn the Raptors into an elite team, but I think we'd be more consistent under a stable hand.

With Mitchell removed BC ends up on the hotseat. It's time for Colangelo to face some of the criticism. As long as Sam remains he's got a scapegoat.

I respect you for criticizing both sides of the equation that mold the team.

[Dogbert]

Actually im old enough to remember VC first game in a Raps uniform. Anyone who followed the Raptors from the beginning of his career knew that Vince's time was done here. Vince gave his all for this team, but after 4 coaching changes do you really expect him to still be in the city. Chris Bosh would leave if he was in the same situation.

Vince Carter did not give his all for coach Sam Mitchell. This point is inarguable. Who cares what the hell his excuse was? He's a professional athlete, he's paid to play the game at the highest level. It's his job to play hard.

I challenge you to give me one incident that is documented that Alston acted childish in his time in Toronto other than the quitting incident.

I couldn't do so, but I do know he acted childish in that situation, and probably acted childish in the locker room for Sam to react that way.

Your comments make me think that MAYBE you werent old enough to see Butch Carter coach, or Lenny Wilkens coach, because you would see the difference between an elite coach and Sam Mitchell.

Think what you want.

[kirbs]

Sam has had three different teams, in three different winning years.

We've had one winning year under Smitch, not three.

[Dogbert]

With Mitchell removed BC ends up on the hotseat. It's time for Colangelo to face some heated criticism. As long as Sam remains he still has a scapegoat.

Colangelo shouldn't be free from criticism, not with Andrea Bargnani as a #1 draft pick, that's for sure.

[halfcourt]

yeah but those coaches are actually being held accountable and getting fired regardless of how untalented their rosters are

So you want him fired...even though there isn't a valid reason for him to be fired?

Dude, you aren't making any sense.

i don't want him fired, all i'm saying is the bs excuse of lack of talent is not gonna cut it, if the the team sucks everyone has to be help accountable, the players, management and the coach

[JN]

Sam has had three different teams, in three different winning years.

We've had one winning year under Smitch, not three.

But the typical (but not all) real GM'er who made such a comment, would then respond in another thread, that BC had led us to three winning seasons.

[Dogbert]

yeah but those coaches are actually being held accountable and getting fired regardless of how untalented their rosters are

So you want him fired...even though there isn't a valid reason for him to be fired?

Dude, you aren't making any sense.

i don't want him fired, all i'm saying is the bs excuse of lack of talent is not gonna cut it, if the the team sucks everyone has to be help accountable, the players, management and especially the coach

If a coach doesn't have enough talented players to win, they aren't going to win. It doesn't matter how good a coach he is.

Example: I think Bill Self is a fantastic coach for the University of Kansas. They won the national championship last year due to the large amount of talent on the team, in addition to his coaching ability. However, they will not come anywhere close to that this year (maybe not even top 25), and it's completely due to the fact that the talent is considerably less than it was last year. That doesn't mean the school should suddenly fire him.

[Paperclip]

Sam's meh. A lot of what he does, you don't notice simply because he does it. You don't see teams quitting on him, you don't hear a lot about locker room troubles, you don't see guys going to the press complaining about not getting enough shots, etc.

Few coaches in the league give you everything. Sam's not an Xs and Os guy, but he's not nearly as bad as some people seem to think, and he is definitely not the cause for most of our ills. It's amazing how consistently some people will give the credit for anything positive to the players, and the blame for anything negative to Sam.

The fact that Kapono can't do much more than shoot isn't Sam's fault. The fact that Bargs has failed to live up to his draft status isn't Sam's fault. The fact that JO is either rusty or older isn't Sam's fault.

Etc.

He, like most NBA coaches, isn't nearly the factor that talent is.

Harry, I'm a big believer in preparation and micro-managing games, like Frank in New Jersey does.

The thing that kills me is the lack of in-game adjustments. He always makes the adjustment at half time. ALWAYS. Take Stuckey in the game against Detroit for example. He's killing Calderon in the first half, and he keeps things rolling until halftime. After halftime, you start noticing that Calderon is playing him differently now, and he colls him off.

Ssame thing with Bibby tonight. He kills us with 19 points because he's sending Calderon down to double on Johnson. The adjustemen doesn't come until halftime, and Bibby goes for zero points.

The examples from last year are too numerous to list here, but that's my main beef with him. Plus his lack of preparation. He seems to draw up a general plan, but never gets into the nitty gritty of things. That's why I love Frank. He spends hours watching game film and devising tactical options for every single player on the roster. His players always seem to know what they need to do.

Then you have his baffling in-game general tactics, like playing man-to-man defense in the second quarter of the game against Detroit, when the Pistons did not have a single shooter on the floor (Bynum, Afflalo, Prince, Maxiell, Johnson), or like playing zone defense in the second quarter tonight, when the Hawks had 4 shooters on the floor.

Just baffling.

I agree completely!
Its the lack of attention to details and preparation that puts the team in a bigger hole or deficit than should be. Whether it be delayed timeouts, in-game adjustments, the way we start games. A little micromanagement and planning can lessen the damage and wouldnt hurt.

Sure theres holes in this roster, but many teams have holes in their roster, its how you maximize the strengths of your roster and players.

[08HEMI]

If a coach doesn't have enough talented players to win, they aren't going to win. It doesn't matter how good a coach he is.

If this team never had talent to win then how did it win 47 games two years ago, how did it manage to win 41 games? Are you trying to tell us Sam Mitchell alone got us 47 wins two seasons ago and not the talent? If so why didnt sam mitchell produce 47 wins under babcock?

After our 47 win season why did we drop to 41 and seemingly become a worse basketball team with the same players plus additions than the year before? Why did TJ and Jose become a problem with this wonderful coach that seems to handle everything so perfectly in the locker room, why did Bargnani take a step back? Why does every player seem to play to their weaknesses instead of their strengths?

I say the team had great talent during that 47 win season and could of won more with a better coach. I would defenitely say we would of won more than 41 last year with a solid coach and our young players like Bargnani would be much further along today had they had a sane and stable coach from day one.

[ForeverTFC]

Actually im old enough to remember VC first game in a Raps uniform. Anyone who followed the Raptors from the beginning of his career knew that Vince's time was done here. Vince gave his all for this team, but after 4 coaching changes do you really expect him to still be in the city. Chris Bosh would leave if he was in the same situation.

Vince Carter did not give his all for coach Sam Mitchell. This point is inarguable. Who cares what the hell his excuse was? He's a professional athlete, he's paid to play the game at the highest level. It's his job to play hard.

How many games did Vince play under Sam? He was on his way out and it was clear before the season started.

I challenge you to give me one incident that is documented that Alston acted childish in his time in Toronto other than the quitting incident.

I couldn't do so, but I do know he acted childish in that situation, and probably acted childish in the locker room for Sam to react that way.

And Sam didnt act childish picking a fight with his own player on national TV having to be restrained by his team? What makes you think he doesnt act this childish in the locker room too? Pretty inconsistent of you dont you think?

Your comments make me think that MAYBE you werent old enough to see Butch Carter coach, or Lenny Wilkens coach, because you would see the difference between an elite coach and Sam Mitchell.

Think what you want.

Again, you brushed my comment aside, with no substantial argument whatsoever. Love it or not even O'neil made the same roster Mitchell had look like a defensive monster when he was here. Sam with the same team showed the worst defensive game ever. If you did not watch our past coaches it is nothing to be ashamed of. We should all be students of the game, and by refusing to do some research for yourself your comments become nothing. If you had watched Lenny Wilkens take this team to the playoffs with out a half his team including his All star then you would know what I am talking about.