Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[nahom1319]

If you think Drummond can focus, then you take him. Why take a stopper like Davis over somebody he couldn't stop? Andre's physical makeup is perfect. He would have to, in an interview situation, talk me out of picking him #1. He could realistically do that if he's as dumb as some think but it's his to lose for me.

With all the physical makeup and talent, his major flaw is his focus. Thats the thing, he can't focus.

I love Andre's potential, I mean his skill set is ridiculous, but that kid will give Casey a heart attack by his lack of effort. Hell if I thought yelling at my tv would help I wouldn't have a voice right now. He has yet to box out his man on the defensive end or set a solid pick in the 5 games I've watched. If he can correct those two things before the tournament then I will be on the wagon. He has many other areas of concern, but those two are so glaringly obvious that if he can't fix them I will convinced he's a complete and total idiot (which will also serve as my explanation as to why he took a loan when a scholarship was available).

[Undefeated]

The only PG worth looking at this year is Tony Wroten Jr. As long as he can cut back his turnovers and improve his free-throw shooting, he's got everything that's needed of a PG; excellent size, breakdown ability, athleticism and court vision.

If not, I'd wait 'til next year to look at guys like Ryan Harrow and Josiah Turner...

[CunningLinguist]

If you think Drummond can focus, then you take him. Why take a stopper like Davis over somebody he couldn't stop? Andre's physical makeup is perfect. He would have to, in an interview situation, talk me out of picking him #1. He could realistically do that if he's as dumb as some think but it's his to lose for me.

With all the physical makeup and talent, his major flaw is his focus. Thats the thing, he can't focus. That's too much risk to take for a #1 especially for raptors cos drafting one of the ADs mean they will move bargnani and even davis on the block, thats a pretty huge move for a raptors franchise, everything is a deep calculated risk, you make one wrong move you're screwing the whole raptors up especially we're on a rebuilding phase. Drummond is either hit or miss, if we miss we are in deep sh*t wasting a pick, i much rather we get a safer pick (Davis), even if offensively he won't avg 20, he's still able to do it defensively at a very good rate plus his FOCUS, intensity and motor will make him a highly efficient player at a tier 2 big men level due to his length and athleticism and awareness on both ends. His physical frame isn't ideal but a lot of bigs come into the league skinny, then work their frame up so size isn't likely too concern if he can build up in year 2 or 3 in nba.

I don't see why Drummond is either boom or bust, with no potential for him to be somewhere in between. To me, he has a floor of Deandre Jordan, which isn't too bad.

And because he'll need some time to develop, and he can play both C and PF, we wouldn't need to trade Bargs until Drummond was ready to take over. We could just trade one of Davis or Amir.

If we trade Davis, we can go with Val/Bargs/Amir/Drummond as our big man rotation. Bargs can help provide scoring until Val and Drummond are ready.

[Mediocrity]

If you think Drummond can focus, then you take him. Why take a stopper like Davis over somebody he couldn't stop? Andre's physical makeup is perfect. He would have to, in an interview situation, talk me out of picking him #1. He could realistically do that if he's as dumb as some think but it's his to lose for me.

With all the physical makeup and talent, his major flaw is his focus. Thats the thing, he can't focus. That's too much risk to take for a #1 especially for raptors cos drafting one of the ADs mean they will move bargnani and even davis on the block, thats a pretty huge move for a raptors franchise, everything is a deep calculated risk, you make one wrong move you're screwing the whole raptors up especially we're on a rebuilding phase. Drummond is either hit or miss, if we miss we are in deep sh*t wasting a pick, i much rather we get a safer pick (Davis), even if offensively he won't avg 20, he's still able to do it defensively at a very good rate plus his FOCUS, intensity and motor will make him a highly efficient player at a tier 2 big men level due to his length and athleticism and awareness on both ends. His physical frame isn't ideal but a lot of bigs come into the league skinny, then work their frame up so size isn't likely too concern if he can build up in year 2 or 3 in nba.

I don't see why Drummond is either boom or bust, with no potential for him to be somewhere in between. To me, he has a floor of Deandre Jordan, which isn't too bad.

And because he'll need some time to develop, and he can play both C and PF, we wouldn't need to trade Bargs until Drummond was ready to take over. We could just trade one of Davis or Amir.

If we trade Davis, we can go with Val/Bargs/Amir/Drummond as our big man rotation. Bargs can help provide scoring until Val and Drummond are ready.

You believe Drummond has a floor of Jordan? That is a pretty high floor, considering Jordan is only 22 and is averaging 8 and 8 with 3 blocks. Taking my homer glasses of momentarily, Drummond reminds me of Cousins, and that is not someone that I want. Sure, he puts up 14 and 11 in 28 minutes, but on 41% FG and doesn't seem to really effect the game in any way, other than some boneheaded plays.

[Marlo Stanfield]

You believe Drummond has a floor of Jordan? That is a pretty high floor, considering Jordan is only 22 and is averaging 8 and 8 with 3 blocks. Taking my homer glasses of momentarily, Drummond reminds me of Cousins, and that is not someone that I want. Sure, he puts up 14 and 11 in 28 minutes, but on 41% FG and doesn't seem to really effect the game in any way, other than some boneheaded plays.

But is he Cousins with the attitude for you? Or is the game just similar? I doubt Andre Drummond is as good as DeMarcus Cousins in the NBA either way however.

[fredericklove]

I love Andre's potential, I mean his skill set is ridiculous, but that kid will give Casey a heart attack by his lack of effort. Hell if I thought yelling at my tv would help I wouldn't have a voice right now. He has yet to box out his man on the defensive end or set a solid pick in the 5 games I've watched. If he can correct those two things before the tournament then I will be on the wagon. He has many other areas of concern, but those two are so glaringly obvious that if he can't fix them I will convinced he's a complete and total idiot (which will also serve as my explanation as to why he took a loan when a scholarship was available).

I just wonder if they ever go through tapes together, and tell Drummond to watch the stupid things he does on the court from the tapes over and over again, like cmon? 14 or 15 games in and he's still not doing the fundamental basic? he pisses me off big time, from day 1 first game to now, the guy with his ultra talent and superior physique still couldn't dominate a single game, maybe just one game where he had 24 pts and 11 reb?

I think he needs to stay another year, I don't see how bad it is for him to miss out on top 2 this year, cos he'll be top 2 pretty much every single draft anyways. Even with injuries he's still on top of the draft unless he torn his ACLs. He needs to stay and work on his fundamentals and be the go to guy on the team. Cos it's hard to see him doing anything if he's the 3rd or 4th option on a lottery team, he just won't play as hard and lose all focus and confidence. ...

god, geez, have I told you how much I hate him. That's how much expectation I had of him coming into the season, and shatters my dream of the supposedly "dominant" Drummond and Val duo for the raps, completely shatters it. Sigh.

[fredericklove]

You believe Drummond has a floor of Jordan? That is a pretty high floor, considering Jordan is only 22 and is averaging 8 and 8 with 3 blocks. Taking my homer glasses of momentarily, Drummond reminds me of Cousins, and that is not someone that I want. Sure, he puts up 14 and 11 in 28 minutes, but on 41% FG and doesn't seem to really effect the game in any way, other than some boneheaded plays.

But is he Cousins with the attitude for you? Or is the game just similar? I doubt Andre Drummond is as good as DeMarcus Cousins in the NBA either way however.

Cousins' advanced offensive skillset is light years ahead of Drummond, Drummond's more like a lack of motivation type of guy as opposed to Cousins' immaturity issue. And if Drummond can do what Jordan does on both ends athletically, that would be a blessing for Drummond. Drummond doesn't even use his athleticism to his advantage nor scarifying his body on the floor like Jordan does. Given his lack of focus and soft ass mentality, a ceiling of Jordan with better offensive skills is pretty much what I hope for out of him.

[Pseudonym]

Random thought: I wouldn't mind taking Barnes, but I would really mind pairing him with DeRozan. It would be a terrible combo. This is mostly because of DeRozan though. If we somehow got Lamb or Beal though.../dream

I love Andre's potential, I mean his skill set is ridiculous, but that kid will give Casey a heart attack by his lack of effort. Hell if I thought yelling at my tv would help I wouldn't have a voice right now. He has yet to box out his man on the defensive end or set a solid pick in the 5 games I've watched. If he can correct those two things before the tournament then I will be on the wagon. He has many other areas of concern, but those two are so glaringly obvious that if he can't fix them I will convinced he's a complete and total idiot (which will also serve as my explanation as to why he took a loan when a scholarship was available).

[Pseudonym]

god, geez, have I told you how much I hate him. That's how much expectation I had of him coming into the season, and shatters my dream of the supposedly "dominant" Drummond and Val duo for the raps, completely shatters it. Sigh.

No worries, we have a backup AD to dream about pairing Val with.

[Marlo Stanfield]

You believe Drummond has a floor of Jordan? That is a pretty high floor, considering Jordan is only 22 and is averaging 8 and 8 with 3 blocks. Taking my homer glasses of momentarily, Drummond reminds me of Cousins, and that is not someone that I want. Sure, he puts up 14 and 11 in 28 minutes, but on 41% FG and doesn't seem to really effect the game in any way, other than some boneheaded plays.

But is he Cousins with the attitude for you? Or is the game just similar? I doubt Andre Drummond is as good as DeMarcus Cousins in the NBA either way however.

Cousins' advanced offensive skillset is light years ahead of Drummond, Drummond's more like a lack of motivation type of guy as opposed to Cousins' immaturity issue. And if Drummond can do what Jordan does on both ends athletically, that would be a blessing for Drummond. Drummond doesn't even use his athleticism to his advantage nor scarifying his body on the floor like Jordan does. Given his lack of focus and soft ass mentality, a ceiling of Jordan with better offensive skills is pretty much what I hope for out of him.

Honestly, when is the last time Drummond gave a facial to anyone? The comparisons to Amare were way off. Amare wants to beat you up, take your lunch money, then pour salt in your cuts. Drummond will knock you over and then pick you up and say sorry. He's no Amare, and definitely no Dwight Howard.

[fredericklove]

Honestly, when is the last time Drummond gave a facial to anyone? The comparisons to Amare were way off. Amare wants to beat you up, take your lunch money, then pour salt in your cuts. Drummond will knock you over and then pick you up and say sorry. He's no Amare, and definitely no Dwight Howard.

OMG, he's a BOSH????

Lol at the giving facial part.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Honestly, when is the last time Drummond gave a facial to anyone? The comparisons to Amare were way off. Amare wants to beat you up, take your lunch money, then pour salt in your cuts. Drummond will knock you over and then pick you up and say sorry. He's no Amare, and definitely no Dwight Howard.

OMG, he's a BITCH????

Lol at the giving facial part.

Fixed.

[SkywalkerAC]

at least Cousins has a mean streak and throws his weight around despite the questionable head on his shoulders. We know all too well that rebounding instincts and fundamentals aren't easily developed and right now, it's a little hard to envision Drummond becoming a great rebounder, let alone a dominant big man thon at plays with force at all times.

Drummond will be productive in the NBA but as a prospect he isn't screaming 'championship' at this point. Davis on the other hand? He plays like a winner. He could come in and be effective next to Bargnani, Valanciunas (yes despite both being rookies), Amir, and so on. He would look good next most decent bigs in the league and I'd bet he's considered by most to be the best defensive prospect since Greg Oden.

[nahom1319]

god, geez, have I told you how much I hate him. That's how much expectation I had of him coming into the season, and shatters my dream of the supposedly "dominant" Drummond and Val duo for the raps, completely shatters it. Sigh.

No worries, we have a backup AD to dream about pairing Val with.

AD and Val?
Let ask you guys a question what happens when you start 2 thin post players like Jonas and Anthony Davis? Answer, people like this guy.....


Go HAM

[Marlo Stanfield]

Weakside help like a MUTHA! That's the fantasy of Davis/Val

[nahom1319]

Weakside help like a MUTHA! That's the fantasy of Davis/Val

Granted, but who defends the opposing teams best post scorer?
Who scores our buckets for us with Bargnani not on the floor?

The nightmare that would be Val and Davis (or Amir/Ed, etc)

[Salted Meat]

If we draft 2nd, I'd take Drummond and be very happy about it. He's not a bad kid at all. He's incredibly gifted physically, and sometimes you need to swing for the fences with a guy like him. Casey runs a very tight ship, and I can see Drummond being the kind of player who would thrive in the structured environment we seem to have in place.

Even just from a defensive standpoint, consider what Casey has managed to do for Andrea Bargnani.

Now imagine what he could do for a kid with significant defensive potential.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Weakside help like a MUTHA! That's the fantasy of Davis/Val

Granted, but who defends the opposing teams best post scorer?

Gotta play your position I guess. Davis guards the PF, Val guards the C.

Who scores our buckets for us with Bargnani not on the floor?

I sure hope Bargs is not our best scorer at the end of the building.

The nightmare that would be Val and Davis (or Amir/Ed, etc)

[Undefeated]

I'm under the impression that Jim Calhoun makes his freshman look bad like he did with some of his recent NBA prospects. Drummond is too good to be this unimpressive. I mean, I like Anthony Davis for his defensive prowess who should have an immediate impact defensively whichever team drafts him, but his offensive game is still so raw for a big man that it will take A LOT of time to develop. I've seen some glimpses of a face-up game with the dribble 18-foot pull-up which is promising to say the least. But I at least expected to see some sort of passing from Anthony Davis considering he played PG prior to his growth spurt and I haven't seen it at all. Even Andre Drummond has shown that elite court vision and passing despite playing with ball hog Shabazz Napier. For all of Drummond's questionable motor, you still swing for the fences because his skillset, production AND potential beats that of Anthony Davis.

Both prospects are practically equal in terms of upside. At this point, you're only going to get defense from Anthony Davis. With Andre Dummond, there's no doubt in my mind he'll be one of the best passing big man, an excellent back-to-the-basket and face-up scorer with some solid one-on-one and weakside defensive contribution. He might not have the defensive instincts or awareness like Anthony Davis swatting shots from the weakside a la KG or Dwight, though he's not that terrible either. I think he's more on the level of Kendrick Perkins and Marc Gasol as a defender and that's nothing to sneeze at.

[mieshpal]

If the raps have only 1 first round pick this draft then collangelo aint doing his job right....barbosa i think could score us at least a late first rounder geez...calde should definitely be on the block as well for some prospect or picks in return.... ya were a young team but really what good young players do we have

Ed- I aint sure what ed is gunna be to me he looks like hes gunna be more of a defensive big man
Amir- i think has reached his peak hes young but i dont see him improving much more
Bargs- getting better,has showed improvement this year but geez this guy doesnt play to his size...and doesnt have any balance and he doesnt have impressive creativity when putting the ball on the floor...7 foot player who plays like hes 6'4
James Johnson-looks promising on the defensive side and i can seeing him improving on the offensive side eventually...just hopefully hes determined to do so
Bayless-i dont like his game at all....he will be at best a scoring guard coming off the bench...this guy will be traded a few more times before his careers done
Derozan-I have alot of faith in demar he has showed flashes of a good player, but has struggled alot this year but what makes me believe in him is that the kid is a gym rat and he wants to be a star in this league

so those players plus Val who looks like a good prospect are the young core guys for this franchise and thats not a great young core imo...we need low picks or young GOOD prospects from other teams....if we could get a high first rounder this year and possibly a prospect while taking back a bad contract for bargs collangelo better pull the trigger...thank goodness were actually trying to build and not trying to sign guys like Matt Barnes for 5 mil a season that was ******* pathetic....oh ya and we should trade magloire for lisa leslie