Official Brandon Ingram Thread

[Basketball_Jones]

I think a lot of people had their eye on him for a while but he’s been forgotten in recent years due to injuries. He also came off a less then stellar playoff series, but overall a bit of a small sample size to really say much. The PO numbers still look decent overall in 10 games. Add in the fact they have Trey Murphy playing awesome I can see why he was cheaply available. More surprising there weren’t more teams interested to be honest.

[RaptorLakerJay]

Ingram said the Raptors were a sell to him because they said the goal they have making Ingram an all star again. I hope the Darko effect comes into play and he turns into the best scorer in the league. He's got a lot of scoring talent at 6'9 of Barnes can be the best defensive forward in the league it would be a good combination.

This is much better balance. Scottie can focus on defending at an All-NBA level, playmaking, and being a viable 2nd option while letting BI cook.

[LoveMyRaps]

Read on Twitter

[vini_vidi_vici]

Lets look at BBIs, since that seems to be the topic at hand. His biggest issue is 2 fold, he hasnt had great creators/shooters playing with him, thus hes forced to take bad quality shots, and in spite of that is quite efficient.

If you look at any great team, they have some guy who can make difficult shots efficiently. We need a player like that and BI is that. This matters especially during playoff time. Those stats of 'shot quality: F, shot making efficiency: A' is a good indicator of that. If he was taking bad quality shots but had garbage efficiency, then of course he should be hammered for that, but that hasn't been the case. Guys like Kobe take messed up and difficult fadeaway shots, but he hits em.

It didnt help that the team around him wasnt great either.

Spoiler:

Sure BI can hit tough shots, but its exacerbated by the fact in his mins his supporting cast wasnt great around him despite being a pretty good facilitator.

Spoiler:

[YogurtProducer]

the dude will argue anything. It’s insufferable

He’s just upset that we’re not hard-core tanking for the next five years. We were never going to tank regardless of the Ingram trade

Not directing at anyone in particular, but with due respect, guys, why make posts whose sole purpose is to denigrate another poster?

If he is upset, then what’s wrong with expressing his opinion in a forum whose purpose is to do just that? If he’s using biased stats that support his view, then so may the other side.

If “that dude” is willing to argue about anything, then it takes 2 to tango. Sometimes I end up taking his view simply because he’s being ganged up on like in this case. These posts directed at the person is noise that don’t add to anything. My 2 cents.

Be upset all you want, I am fine with that. Don't go into every god damn thread and spam the same drivel and blindly hate everything.

Every post of his turns back into "we should have tanked, we aren't good enough, none of this matters, our players suck, yada yada yada". He is disingenuous in his posts, only stresses sample size when it benefits him, moves goalposts constantly, etc.

Pretty much at this point he should just delete his account and start over his username is so tainted because you know there is going to be no good faith in the conversation. He has lost all credibility.

[LoveMyRaps]

The biggest issue I find with those ignorant to stats is, they argue to outliers and not the method of the statistic.

If you want to say why something is bad, arguing to the outliers means almost nothing. If you understand the methodology you can explain why ______ is good or bad. This goes beyond sports too.

I love Synergy/CTG/BBI/etc.. because the more information I get, the more informed I can be. If you dont understand it, that is fine, but doubling down on ignorance is what drives me away from this place.

Lets look at BBIs, since that seems to be the topic at hand. His biggest issue is 2 fold, he hasnt had great creators/shooters playing with him, thus hes forced to take bad quality shots, and in spite of that is quite efficient.

24/25.

Spoiler:

23/24.

BI has his warts for sure, and I can go into those, but im pretty high on him offensively if we dont give him the NOP treatment. It will be interesting to see how the Raptors implement him into the offensive scheme, and/or change it.

If you want to discredit the site with your opinions, im not here to defend it and dont care to, I could just as easily spam Synergy/CTG/etc.. stuff, but people like that are why I dont post anymore, its tiring and not conducive to actual BBall discourse.

His overall shot making efficiency and shooting talent being an A+ with his shot quality being an F implies that he's one of the toughest shot makers in the league.

It also shows why Ingram wants to play w/ Poeltl, with him being one of the best screen setters. It'll create a lot more wide open opportunities for BI and improve the quality of his shots.

[YogurtProducer]

If you want to discredit the site with your opinions, im not here to defend it and dont care to, I could just as easily spam Synergy/CTG/etc.. stuff, but people like that are why I dont post anymore, its tiring and not conducive to actual BBall discourse.

I feel like if you posted more of your threads you would see there are a number of people who want to discuss this kind of stuff. I personally love reading the stats and what not.

Nothing I say here is going to change the direction of our FO. I would rather look into how the fit is going to look and the ins and outs of how we could improve with what we got. Your posts used to bring a lot of insight and I still remember the awesome playoff series breakdowns you used to create (maybe you still did up to 2020... i cannot recall anymore).

Really all it would take is the mods to keep threads on-topic. If you wanna post some synergy stats and how you think a move from NO to TOR could impact BI's future, then the guys who wanna cry we didn't tank can just **** off to the TWO thread.

[Scase]

In that same vein that poster should be honest about his feelings instead of mindlessly denigrating the player. Cause it just reflects poorly on him at the moment end of the day

What am I being dishonest about exactly?

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

And that is dishonest how? You guys seem to struggle with using the right words to describe how you feel. Me thinking moves are bad isn't dishonest because you disagree, it's an opinion.

Is it dishonest when people endlessly defend moves or think that they are game changing moves? Or is that just reserved for things y'all don't agree with? Seems like there's a theme here.

[vini_vidi_vici]

His overall shot making efficiency and shooting talent being an A+ with his shot quality being an F implies that he's one of the toughest shot makers in the league.

It also shows why Ingram wants to play w/ Poeltl, with him being one of the best screen setters. It'll create a lot more wide open opportunities for BI and improve the quality of his shots.

AGreed, and its going to be interesting how we integrate someone like him, a pure shot maker into this offense, or if we change the dynamic.

I think a few of the ways is, in his clear outs (1v1s) we definitely need spacing, because he performs badly vs help defense/rim protectors. Now alot of that can be alleviated with his facilitating to guys in the dunker spot (a Jak/Scottie) along with spreading the floor with shooters (Gradey/Battle/IQ/etc..).

Also looking at his guarded by data...

Spoiler:

Its great that he kills wings, but he needs to attack mismatches better either in the Post vs Gs, or taking bigs out on the perimeter and facing them up. The fact hes in the 9th percentile vs low activity defenders (think DD/Luka) is disconcerting but also shows a big area he can improve fairly easily. I think we can get there with better spacing than NOP. I also think hes going to need to be better in transition to combine with a more effective HC game, and not slow down the pace, but fortunately we have 2 guys who are good at leak outs off makes/misses in Scottie/RJ.

To your point, teams are going to go under screens, and while id prefer him back out and exploit mismatches, hes going to have to use a pull J more (where hes pretty already pretty efficient).

Im excited to have a better HC focal point, but like I said, the intrigue is going to be how hes integrated or how the schemes will adapt to his style of play.

[vini_vidi_vici]

What am I being dishonest about exactly?

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

And that is dishonest how? You guys seem to struggle with using the right words to describe how you feel. Me thinking moves are bad isn't dishonest because you disagree, it's an opinion.

Is it dishonest when people endlessly defend moves or think that they are game changing moves? Or is that just reserved for things y'all don't agree with? Seems like there's a theme here.

Case in point.

"Ok but I cant be bothered to go to some random website for some random made up stat that isn't even remotely close to commonly used lol."

[Duffman100]

What am I being dishonest about exactly?

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

And that is dishonest how? You guys seem to struggle with using the right words to describe how you feel. Me thinking moves are bad isn't dishonest because you disagree, it's an opinion.

Is it dishonest when people endlessly defend moves or think that they are game changing moves? Or is that just reserved for things y'all don't agree with? Seems like there's a theme here.

Dishonest in the sense that your motivations to argue the move aren't based in the actual move itself but rather the underlying implications of the move.

For instance, I wouldn't be surprised that if the stat in question proved your point, you'd be harping on and using it. But instead, you dismiss it. That's the level of dishonesty in conversation, I assume, they're speaking about.

[Thaddy]

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

And that is dishonest how? You guys seem to struggle with using the right words to describe how you feel. Me thinking moves are bad isn't dishonest because you disagree, it's an opinion.

Is it dishonest when people endlessly defend moves or think that they are game changing moves? Or is that just reserved for things y'all don't agree with? Seems like there's a theme here.

Dishonest in the sense that your motivations to argue the move aren't based in the actual move itself but rather the underlying implications of the move.

For instance, I wouldn't be surprised that if the stat in question proved your point, you'd be harping on and using it. But instead, you dismiss it. That's the level of dishonesty in conversation, I assume, they're speaking about.

Ingram is a huge risk for Toronto. He's been injured his whole career. The OPJ signing was supposed to be a lesson but we're at the same game. Ingram has a frail build that will get injured again.

Scase is right. Tanking especially at this point is the right move. We need more talent. In the past we used assets we tanked for and then developed to get all of our championship pieces whether it was Demar, JV, Davis, etc.

I disagree with the Ingram move but I can see the logic behind it. We bought low on an asset that's usually very expensive. If he's load managed, trained to be durable, or if there's hidden intel regarding NOPs training staff then I'm for the move.

[Boogie!]

I think a lot of people had their eye on him for a while but he’s been forgotten in recent years due to injuries. He also came off a less then stellar playoff series, but overall a bit of a small sample size to really say much. The PO numbers still look decent overall in 10 games. Add in the fact they have Trey Murphy playing awesome I can see why he was cheaply available. More surprising there weren’t more teams interested to be honest.

His injury prone ness most likely. That being said lakers got Luka for an injury prone ad, so considering the talent we gave up again I’m not mad at this trade.

[Scase]

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

And that is dishonest how? You guys seem to struggle with using the right words to describe how you feel. Me thinking moves are bad isn't dishonest because you disagree, it's an opinion.

Is it dishonest when people endlessly defend moves or think that they are game changing moves? Or is that just reserved for things y'all don't agree with? Seems like there's a theme here.

Case in point.

"Ok but I cant be bothered to go to some random website for some random made up stat that isn't even remotely close to commonly used lol."

I've seen a multitude of their stats before that are nonsense, so I'm a little biased when it came to that. Not sure I'd classify it as dishonest, but it's fair, I could've taken a look at the definition they used.

[Duffman100]

Scase is right.

Really tough to say anyone is "right". People were saying the same thing about our team before we won the title.

And the issue I think people are raising aren't just about Scase's take on the Ingram trade. But rather his holistic posting pattern.

[Vampirate]

And that is dishonest how? You guys seem to struggle with using the right words to describe how you feel. Me thinking moves are bad isn't dishonest because you disagree, it's an opinion.

Is it dishonest when people endlessly defend moves or think that they are game changing moves? Or is that just reserved for things y'all don't agree with? Seems like there's a theme here.

Dishonest in the sense that your motivations to argue the move aren't based in the actual move itself but rather the underlying implications of the move.

For instance, I wouldn't be surprised that if the stat in question proved your point, you'd be harping on and using it. But instead, you dismiss it. That's the level of dishonesty in conversation, I assume, they're speaking about.

Ingram is a huge risk for Toronto. He's been injured his whole career. The OPJ signing was supposed to be a lesson but we're at the same game. Ingram has a frail build that will get injured again.

Scase is right. Tanking especially at this point is the right move. We need more talent. In the past we used assets we tanked for and then developed to get all of our championship pieces whether it was Demar, JV, Davis, etc.

I disagree with the Ingram move but I can see the logic behind it. We bought low on an asset that's usually very expensive. If he's load managed, trained to be durable, or if there's hidden intel regarding NOPs training staff then I'm for the move.

It's a big risk, but a more short term one, at the most it's a 3 year signing.

Our issue is that it's going to be progressively harder to tank as we add pieces through the years.

We basically need Ingram to stay out of the lineup for this year, but next year, if we land on a great draft pick, Ingram should boost our ceiling as Ingram will likely be better than anyone we draft at that point.

Barnes
IQ - contract
BI - contract
Draft Pick (if it's a high end one)
Poetl is what our starting lineup is eventually going to be


Of course Ingram could also play a lot for the rest of this year and screw our lottery odds, we should pretty much tell him to take it easy this year, rest up.


Anyways as long as we land a game changer in the draft it's all good.

[YogurtProducer]

And that is dishonest how? You guys seem to struggle with using the right words to describe how you feel. Me thinking moves are bad isn't dishonest because you disagree, it's an opinion.

Is it dishonest when people endlessly defend moves or think that they are game changing moves? Or is that just reserved for things y'all don't agree with? Seems like there's a theme here.

Dishonest in the sense that your motivations to argue the move aren't based in the actual move itself but rather the underlying implications of the move.

For instance, I wouldn't be surprised that if the stat in question proved your point, you'd be harping on and using it. But instead, you dismiss it. That's the level of dishonesty in conversation, I assume, they're speaking about.

Ingram is a huge risk for Toronto. He's been injured his whole career. The OPJ signing was supposed to be a lesson but we're at the same game. Ingram has a frail build that will get injured again.

Scase is right. Tanking especially at this point is the right move. We need more talent. In the past we used assets we tanked for and then developed to get all of our championship pieces whether it was Demar, JV, Davis, etc.

I disagree with the Ingram move but I can see the logic behind it. We bought low on an asset that's usually very expensive. If he's load managed, trained to be durable, or if there's hidden intel regarding NOPs training staff then I'm for the move.

Annnnd here it is. The Brandon Ingram thread is now a tanking thread

And you are right, we traded Demar JV and Davis to get our pieces.

However, I don't really see a huge difference in value between Demar, JV, and Special Ed and with Quickely, Barrett, or Poeltl. That is where the argument falls apart.

Realistically speaking, we have a more talented, younger, and more promising core right now heading into 2025/26 than we did in 2013/14 when we began our ascent last time.

[Scase]

Dishonest in the sense that your motivations to argue the move aren't based in the actual move itself but rather the underlying implications of the move.

My argument about the move and the underlying implications of the move are the exact same. I consider the move to be bad, because of the impact I believe it will have, what other reason is there to be critical of something other than you perceive the negative side of it? I don't follow your logic here.

The actual move, is literally what the move implies. It implies we are pushing to a win now state, and I think that's a bad idea because I think we need more time to build. There is no separation between implication, and the outcome in this case.

For instance, I wouldn't be surprised that if the stat in question proved your point, you'd be harping on and using it. But instead, you dismiss it. That's the level of dishonesty in conversation, I assume, they're speaking about.

So you're making assumptions based off an imaginary scenario to paint me in a dishonest light....and I'm the dishonest one? Oh the ironing Lisa.

So it's gone from I'm "dishonest about my feelings", then to me being dishonest because I "find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".", and now I'm dishonest because you concocted a make believe scenario? You guys are grasping at straws to try and defend an ironically, dishonest comment.

Scase is right.

Really tough to say anyone is "right". People were saying the same thing about our team before we won the title.

And the issue I think people are raising aren't just about Scase's take on the Ingram trade. But rather his holistic posting pattern.

i'm not even arguing I'm right, I'm arguing what I think is the right path to take. My "holistic posting pattern" is a direct result of a multitude of moves that I think are a bad path forward for the team.

So again, this all boils down to a little subset of you that disagree with my opinion, and then deem it dishonest because it doesn't align with yours. But then I'm the one being called dishonest.

[Duffman100]

So again, this all boils down to a little subset of you that disagree with my opinion, and then deem it dishonest because it doesn't align with yours. But then I'm the one being called dishonest.

I think it boils down to you complaining about everything, all the time, endlessly and people getting frustrated and a little exhausted by it...

[Thaddy]

Dishonest in the sense that your motivations to argue the move aren't based in the actual move itself but rather the underlying implications of the move.

For instance, I wouldn't be surprised that if the stat in question proved your point, you'd be harping on and using it. But instead, you dismiss it. That's the level of dishonesty in conversation, I assume, they're speaking about.

Ingram is a huge risk for Toronto. He's been injured his whole career. The OPJ signing was supposed to be a lesson but we're at the same game. Ingram has a frail build that will get injured again.

Scase is right. Tanking especially at this point is the right move. We need more talent. In the past we used assets we tanked for and then developed to get all of our championship pieces whether it was Demar, JV, Davis, etc.

I disagree with the Ingram move but I can see the logic behind it. We bought low on an asset that's usually very expensive. If he's load managed, trained to be durable, or if there's hidden intel regarding NOPs training staff then I'm for the move.

Annnnd here it is. The Brandon Ingram thread is now a tanking thread

And you are right, we traded Demar JV and Davis to get our pieces.

However, I don't really see a huge difference in value between Demar, JV, and Special Ed and with Quickely, Barrett, or Poeltl. That is where the argument falls apart.

Realistically speaking, we have a more talented, younger, and more promising core right now heading into 2025/26 than we did in 2013/14 when we began our ascent last time.

There's no difference between fresh prospects from the draft and prospects other teams have dumped. Great post and opinion.

25+ year olds are younger than JV, Davis and DeRozan who we developed from the ground up. That's very accurate. Keep up the great posts.