Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[Raps in 4]

Its not about Connington lol. It's just for salary purposes.
Even if Bucks dont want him, TOR will look to move him somewhere else. You need defense and 3's next to Giannis and we already have IQ and BI who arent the greatest defenders.

They also need legit players around Giannis. RJ proved in his first season with the Raps that he could be more efficient from 3 in the right lineup. And in terms of D, that is where the bench comes in with Mogbo, Shead & JKW.

With 4 starters legitimately 20+pts per game threats, I would think they could mix and match with the young guys.

If the Raptors get Giannis, I think it’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that RJ is being moved. You’re not starting him with Poeltl, Giannis and Ingram. The best part of RJs game is what Giannis is best at.

He is actually the worst fit in our starting lineup with Giannis and Ingram.

It's a foregone conclusion that Scottie, #9, one or more of Dick/JaKobe/Ochai, and multiple FRPs are being moved.

[Tha Cynic]

Barnes can play multiple positions and can actually defend.

Barnes can defend, absolutely. But he isn't a good option at 2, and he isn't better than Ingram, and he isn't a good option at the 5, so he's more out of sorts if Giannis comes to play the 4 than anyone else.

RJ is nothing when he’s not scoring and will most likely find himself on the bench in the playoffs due to his defense. I don’t see them keeping RJ if they’re serious about winning playoff games. Heck, even Agbaji or Dick may work better as a starter here than RJ Barrett.

Bit odd mentioning Dick at this phase, without visible improvement from him on the defensive end. He certainly has the potential to evolve into a better player than RJ is right now, but he sure isn't there.

Barnes was a plus player while being putrid on offense. I expect he will be better on a team with Giannis and Ingram as main scorers.

Hard to envision where he'd play with both of those two starting.

We can’t on the one hand mock Barnes for being a super support player and then on the other hand say he won’t be as good with Ingram and Giannis ahead of him.

I don't mock Barnes for being a super support player. I think if you have space in your lineup for a forward, he's reasonable because of his strong defense. But we have not one but TWO starters in the places he would generally play. So unless you want him copping all of the SF and PF bench minutes, which can't really work, it isn't really something that will work out well for us. Giannis doesn't want to play C, so that doesn't feel like an option.

If Barnes had the tools to be a guard, this would be a very different story, of course, but he doesn't.

A lot of this is based on old school positional setups. I don’t think Masai is going to be concerned about this. Barnes has been guarding top guards his entire career here over RJ Barrett. So even if the argument is defensive positions, Barnes is a better fit.

If we’re focusing on corner 3s, Dick is the better fit.

[Raps in 4]

Giannis wants to get back to the Finals ASAP and the best chance he has is to stay in the east. He's tired of losing in the 1st/2nd round every year since 2021 and it'll be more likely to continue if he goes to the superstar stacked west. All he's worried about in the east is getting passed the juggernaut Pacers but anything can happen with Masai in charge of surrounding Giannis with the right pieces

His best chance of getting back to the Finals is teaming up with Wemby or SGA. If either of those teams want him, they can get him.

[tsherkin]

A lot of this is based on old school positional setups. I don’t think Masai is going to be concerned about this. Barnes has been guarding top guards his entire career here over RJ Barrett. So even if the argument is defensive positions, Barnes is a better fit.

If we’re focusing on corner 3s, Dick is the better fit.

Right, but Dick is a crapstorm on defense and offers basically nothing else but C+S 3s at this point. He was showing some potential attack close-outs for a bit, but that didn't finish well last year.

Meantime, our best shooters besides Ingram (who isn't going to be defending guys much smaller than him) are guards, so unless you want the smaller guys trying to handle the forwards, that sort of limits the options for what we should be doing defensively with Scottie while simultaneously dropping our ability to field quality shooting. In an offense built around Giannis, Barnes doesn't really fit in because of his significant skill deficiency.

[Basketball_Jones]

I’d be in board with moving Scottie now as opposed to later when this experiment of him as a franchise player runs its course. Welcome to have Milwaukee give it a shot. But it’s imperative we somehow retain that pick imo. I’m not over the moon that we’ve done enough to restock the farm team with Shead/Mogbo/Walters/Ochai/Gradey we’re gonna need the ability pivot and reset at some point down the line

[Boogie!]

Scottie realistically beats other teams packages in the east. If Giannis only wants the east than we have a good shot. But if he's open to okc/spurs/rockets we are toast.

Scottie is a poor man’s Giannis. We were trying to build around Scottie and surround him with shooters and scorers in the way Giannis needs them. It makes no sense to keep them together because neither of them are off ball players. Unless you’re paying Scottie max money to be a 6th man…

If you simply do a 1 on 1 trade with Scottie and Giannis and add another shooter, we’re probably legit contenders next year in the east…

Iq, Barrett, Ingram, Giannis, Poeltl…

That’s an unstoppable starting lineup offensively…

[PushDaRock]

Pairing Giannis + Scottie together is investing 60% of the cap on 2 players who can't shoot. That makes it really difficult to fill out the rest of the roster for any semblance of balance.

Scottie's salary + lack of ideal fit with Giannis combined with the fact he's our best asset just makes him the obvious choice to go the other way in any Giannis trade.

[JB7]

If the Raptors get Giannis, I think it’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that RJ is being moved. You’re not starting him with Poeltl, Giannis and Ingram. The best part of RJs game is what Giannis is best at.

He is actually the worst fit in our starting lineup with Giannis and Ingram.

But unlike Barnes, he can at least hit corner 3s and isn't overlapping by position.

Barnes can play multiple positions and can actually defend. RJ is nothing when he’s not scoring and will most likely find himself on the bench in the playoffs due to his defense. I don’t see them keeping RJ if they’re serious about winning playoff games. Heck, even Agbaji or Dick may work better as a starter here than RJ Barrett. Barnes was a plus player while being putrid on offense. I expect he will be better on a team with Giannis and Ingram as main scorers.

We can’t on the one hand mock Barnes for being a super support player and then on the other hand say he won’t be as good as RJ Barrett with Ingram and Giannis ahead of him.

And RJ's being overrated?

If RJ's D is bad, what would Dick's D be considered?

And Agbaji had a nice little turnaround, but that was on a team with no pressure. They were expected to lose. I would feel a lot more confident in RJ making a big play at the end of the game than Ochai.

RJ has produced in the playoffs for the Knicks, and produced for Canada in International competition. Definitely more proven as a scorer.

[tsherkin]

Iq, Barrett, Ingram, Giannis, Poeltl…

That’s an unstoppable starting lineup offensively…

That doesn't feel "unstoppable" to me, with a pair of guys who really don't stun offensively and another low-volume guy on top of that. And a third guy who's a decent second option.

We'd need more from IQ and RJ than they provided this year, that's for sure. Now, maybe they give it with the push of a real superstar, and with some health. It's possible. But the spacing isn't ideal, our bench doesn't stun on O (or with spacing), you HAVE to stash Barrett in the corner to make him any kind of spacing threat.

It looks like it would be a strong lineup, but "unstoppable" feels a little much to me. I'd love to try it and be proven wrong, though! It'd certainly be a fun one to watch.

[ash_k]

I totally understand Giannis wanting to have some control at this point. Ultimately with MAGA Ed taking over thus the uncertainty over Masai,
ATL would fit both perfectly (Giannis and Masai + Trae...'ship?!)

[YogurtProducer]

Ingram Giannis and Quickley is not a contender. And keeping Scottie means horrible spacing.

Haliburton, Siakam and Turner are in the Finals...

Because Haliburton is much better than Quickley and Siakam is better than Ingram.

And Giannis is miles better than all 5.

Giannis > Hali
Ingram = Siakm
Turner = Quickley

[junot111]

Was a lil comprehension test.

It's pretty simple: everyone is on the table for Giannis, but Scottie is the last guy I'd want to trade.

I hope we can build a package that doesn't include Scottie.

Didn't say I wouldn't trade Scottie for Giannis

But why? What's the point of trading for Giannis if you insist on keeping the player who's least compatible with him on the floor?

Because he's still our best player and most valuable asset.
Same reason you draft BPA over fit.

You build around Giannis + Barnes - surround them with shooters.

Giannis and Barnes are terrific all around players and would be a nightmare defensive duo.

It would be a nightmare to watch on offense too. Not to mention you guys overrate scotties defense, he's not great on the perimeter. That would be an utter disaster but I trust that Masai wouldn't pursue such a foolish endeavor

[JB7]

Iq, Barrett, Ingram, Giannis, Poeltl…

That’s an unstoppable starting lineup offensively…

That doesn't feel "unstoppable" to me, with a pair of guys who really don't stun offensively and another low-volume guy on top of that. And a third guy who's a decent second option.

We'd need more from IQ and RJ than they provided this year, that's for sure. Now, maybe they give it with the push of a real superstar, and with some health. It's possible. But the spacing isn't ideal, our bench doesn't stun on O (or with spacing), you HAVE to stash Barrett in the corner to make him any kind of spacing threat.

It looks like it would be a strong lineup, but "unstoppable" feels a little much to me. I'd love to try it and be proven wrong, though! It'd certainly be a fun one to watch.

The gravity Giannis would bring to this lineup will help to elevate the play of the other 3 (BI, RJ & IQ). They will get a ton of open shots. Just like what Kawhi did for the championship team.

[Boogie!]

Iq, Barrett, Ingram, Giannis, Poeltl…

That’s an unstoppable starting lineup offensively…

That doesn't feel "unstoppable" to me, with a pair of guys who really don't stun offensively and another low-volume guy on top of that. And a third guy who's a decent second option.

We'd need more from IQ and RJ than they provided this year, that's for sure. Now, maybe they give it with the push of a real superstar, and with some health. It's possible. But the spacing isn't ideal, our bench doesn't stun on O (or with spacing), you HAVE to stash Barrett in the corner to make him any kind of spacing threat.

It looks like it would be a strong lineup, but "unstoppable" feels a little much to me. I'd love to try it and be proven wrong, though! It'd certainly be a fun one to watch.

Barrett is already a proven 20 ppg scorer… 35% from 3 and with the added threat of Gianni’s coverage would make his 1 on 1s easier… iq is already a good movement 3 point shooter… and Ingram is a scoring threat from anywhere on the floor… it just reminds me of a better version of the post og trade when we still had siakam and that lineup was deadly offensively until someone got hurt…

Maybe having a stretch 5 in the lineup like a Myles turner would really make it unstoppable but I would be really excited for a season with that lineup on the floor… the last time I was this excited about a trade/roster was when we traded demar for kawhi.

[TheRaptor!]

Giannis wants to get back to the Finals ASAP and the best chance he has is to stay in the east. He's tired of losing in the 1st/2nd round every year since 2021 and it'll be more likely to continue if he goes to the superstar stacked west. All he's worried about in the east is getting passed the juggernaut Pacers but anything can happen with Masai in charge of surrounding Giannis with the right pieces

His best chance of getting back to the Finals is teaming up with Wemby or SGA. If either of those teams want him, they can get him.

KD got destroyed joining the Warriors

Giannis would face just as bad of a backlash

If he joins Wemby, he still has to go through Jokic and the all but guaranteed 2025 champs in OKC just to make it to the finals, why would he do that?

[tecumseh18]

Iq, Barrett, Ingram, Giannis, Poeltl…

That’s an unstoppable starting lineup offensively…

That doesn't feel "unstoppable" to me, with a pair of guys who really don't stun offensively and another low-volume guy on top of that. And a third guy who's a decent second option.

We'd need more from IQ and RJ than they provided this year, that's for sure. Now, maybe they give it with the push of a real superstar, and with some health. It's possible. But the spacing isn't ideal, our bench doesn't stun on O (or with spacing), you HAVE to stash Barrett in the corner to make him any kind of spacing threat.

It looks like it would be a strong lineup, but "unstoppable" feels a little much to me. I'd love to try it and be proven wrong, though! It'd certainly be a fun one to watch.

I want Barrett off the bench. I insert Year 2 Walter, with some added muscle and an actual training camp under his belt, in there. Then we cook.

[Boogie!]

Giannis wants to get back to the Finals ASAP and the best chance he has is to stay in the east. He's tired of losing in the 1st/2nd round every year since 2021 and it'll be more likely to continue if he goes to the superstar stacked west. All he's worried about in the east is getting passed the juggernaut Pacers but anything can happen with Masai in charge of surrounding Giannis with the right pieces

His best chance of getting back to the Finals is teaming up with Wemby or SGA. If either of those teams want him, they can get him.

KD got destroyed joining the Warriors

Giannis would face just as bad of a backlash

If he joins Wemby, he still has to go through Jokic and the all but guaranteed 2025 champs in OKC just to make it to the finals, why would he do that?

It’s a trade though not a free agent signing so it’s different… plus the warriors came off a 73 win season. Completely different scenarios really.

[tecumseh18]

Im hearing its a go.

Satire?

I gotta believe so. I laughed, anyway.

I've been around for countless big rumour threads. I recognize the artistry. Respect it, even.

[Duffman100]

His best chance of getting back to the Finals is teaming up with Wemby or SGA. If either of those teams want him, they can get him.

KD got destroyed joining the Warriors

Giannis would face just as bad of a backlash

If he joins Wemby, he still has to go through Jokic and the all but guaranteed 2025 champs in OKC just to make it to the finals, why would he do that?

It’s a trade though not a free agent signing so it’s different… plus the warriors came off a 73 win season. Completely different scenarios really.

Yeah it wouldn't be the same at all.

[Pointgod]

Doesn't change the fact that it'd be a cakewalk in the East, compared to the West.

Giannis + Wemby vs.

ANT + Randle + Gobert

LeBron + Luka

SGA + Chet + JDub

Jokic + Murray + Gordon



Meanwhile East has..... the Cavs? the Pacers?

A team without Scottie is no where near a cake wall in the East. A trade for Giannis takes Scottie and at least one of Poeltl, RJ or Quickley which leaves Giannis surrounded by Ingram and two solid starters. We’d still be a season or two from contending with the Giannis.

He goes to the West, he’d still be surrounded by way more talent than he would have with us post trade.

Could pretty comfortably match salaries with Scottie + two bench players post July 1st.

Still agree with your overall point though, if I’m Giannis and looking at my options, San Antonio is pretty hard to beat as a destination for short & long-term success.

I don’t think NBA players, especially Finals MVPs, are planning their careers around what seems like an easier conference on paper. You’re gonna have to beat the best to win so you might as well be in the best environment for winning, and San Antonio seems like they have that

Yeah on top of that it’s not like other teams are just going to remain stagnant. I don't think you can sell Giannis on Indiana’s in the finals so you should be happy with Brandon Ingram as your #2 vs playing with a future GOAT in Wemby or current MVP in Shai.