Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[Rude Boy 1]

Barnes had a good game.

I think he's got good shooting skills, which could turn into even great over time.

He's a good defender and rebounder, but he is far from a complete player offensively.

Even though he might enter the draft this year, I think it would behoove him (just as I thought it would behoove DeRozan but he's turned out decent thus far) to stay another year at UNC to hone his game a bit more.

He's got the size, length, athleticism to be a great player, with work ethic to get him there. Just a matter of working on his game.

I never understood this argument. A buddy of mine has incredible shooting mechanics but he always misses. what good is shooting mechanics when you can make them?

Anyways I'm gonna leave this alone. Like I said I doubt HIGHLY Barnes is high on anyones radar with his play this season. Its like we forgot what a top 5 pick means.

[Brinbe]

I'd definitely take Terrence Jones over Barnes too. Hope he impresses against the Vols tomorrow.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Basically, we need Kyrie Irving.

[Rude Boy 1]

Basically, we need Kyrie Irving.

No freaking doubt about it. Its Kyrie Irving or prepare for 2012 draft

[Randle McMurphy]

Storm the floor? meh

That was pretty embarrassing from a school with the history of UNC. I was surprised.

[The Duke]

Definitely Liked the Wash win over Minny

[delaney8]

I thought Marvin Williams was bigger... at least i remember him being as big as some of their big men ...barnes looks smaller than i expected, which could be a problem in the L

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Whoa, Perry Jones just dribbled the ball end-to-end effortlessly for a layup, aided by brutal Texas 'D though. Baylor trailing vs. Texas late in the game.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think in general that great players dominate every level they're in. If you're not playing in the NBA and you're not dominating then you're not going to magically become a star in the NBA.

If this guy is getting pushed around and fouling out in Eurompe, he's going to get pushed around and foul out in the NBA but worse.

I know he's productive while he's in the game, but those easy buckes won't be there for him in the NBA and guys will actually compete for the rebounds in the NBA.

Watching the clips (which is all we can do) of him, I don't see a skill or athleticism that's going to translate well into the NBA.

I've watched a few games, he's definitely athletic and mobile enough. And, in watching games I didn't realize that guys in the Euroleague don't compete for rebounds. I completely missed that. I also didn't realize that there are no easy buckets in the NBA.

He gets pushed around a lot because he's 18 and playing in a Men's league. He'll get pushed around a lot in the NBA, too, at first. And even though he gets pushed around a lot he still produces at a high level. It's not about who's the best rookie, it's about who's the best player at that draft slot, and going off clips and completely ignoring context is the worst way to go about debating the topic.

[baulderdash77]

I've watched a few games, he's definitely athletic and mobile enough. And, in watching games I didn't realize that guys in the Euroleague don't compete for rebounds. I completely missed that. I also didn't realize that there are no easy buckets in the NBA.

He gets pushed around a lot because he's 18 and playing in a Men's league. He'll get pushed around a lot in the NBA, too, at first. And even though he gets pushed around a lot he still produces at a high level. It's not about who's the best rookie, it's about who's the best player at that draft slot, and going off clips and completely ignoring context is the worst way to go about debating the topic.

He doesn't look very athletic at all compared to what you're going to get in the NBA. He's going to get eaten alive until he fills out. Also he's already 240 pounds. He has to gain what 30 pounds to be able to hold up in the NBA so he's not pushed around? He'll be slow as molassas so he'll still be fouling out like crazy. I don't see how he's projectible into anything more than a bench player or a fringe starter.

I'd prefer John Henson who looks to be like Marcus Camby in the NBA.

[baulderdash77]

Here's some stats on Henson's development by the way.

Since the NC State game when UNC turned it around (this is when we're talking about Harrison Barnes' major turning point) Henson has been averaging 12.7 & 12.2 with 3.5 blocks and only 1.8 fouls in 30 minutes.

That's some major productivity from a guy who's a true defensive C. He's super athletic and super long. I especially like his very low foul rate because he knows how to be productive and physical and stay in the game.

The defensive potential of a Davis/Henson/Amir frontcourt (assuming Bargs would have to be traded) really is fantastic.

[princeofpalace]

I think Valanciunas plays a lot like Ed Davis, with better FT shooting obviously. He sets a screen, then rolls to the rim making himself available as a target for the ball, really battles for the ball in 50/50 situations, and is excellent shotblocker from the weakside.

All qualities that Ed Davis possesses.

I think he's a taller Ed Davis without the athleticism, shotblocking, toughness or long arms but with better FT shooting. Yup they practicly have the same game.

Jonas V is significantly longer than Davis. Davis has a fairly pedastrian wingspan at 7'0. Jonas is 7'6.

He is tough, Ive seen him play post D on guys significantly older and stronger than him, he doesn't back down even if he's not strong enough to hold his position right now. Get him with some NBA trainers and that changes quickly IMO.

He also projects to be a better rebounder and is a similiar shot blocker. Also, lets not forget that Jonas V is 2 inches taller and 3 years younger than Davis. He is very raw right now but also very intriguing. Id take him easily over Perry Jones.

[baulderdash77]

He also projects to be a better rebounder and is a similiar shot blocker. Also, lets not forget that Jonas V is 2 inches taller and 3 years younger than Davis. He is very raw right now but also very intriguing. Id take him easily over Perry Jones.

But he doesn't block now though. He's had 10 blocks in 15 games. He's also been blocked 8 times in 15 games.

I didn't really look at the FT's. Everyone raves about his incredible FT%. He's only attempted 26 FT in 15 games? Really that's pretty low. But he has comitted 46 fouls in 15 games. It's good that he's sent the other team to the line 92 times in 15 games. That's a good rate.

[bboyskinnylegs]

I think Valanciunas can be very, very good. His productivity now is excellent, and considering that he's 18 he still has lots of room to develop and refine his game. From the games I've seen him play in, he looks solid playing off the pick and roll, will fight to establish post position, is super-efficient, a solid rebounder/shotblocker, and is very active on defense. He's an excellent free throw shooter as well. The kid is pure hustle, and to me he looks like the center version of Amir. If Kyrie is off the board I would definitely consider drafting him.

[CunningLinguist]

I think in general that great players dominate every level they're in. If you're not playing in the NBA and you're not dominating then you're not going to magically become a star in the NBA.

If this guy is getting pushed around and fouling out in Eurompe, he's going to get pushed around and foul out in the NBA but worse.

I know he's productive while he's in the game, but those easy buckes won't be there for him in the NBA and guys will actually compete for the rebounds in the NBA.

Watching the clips (which is all we can do) of him, I don't see a skill or athleticism that's going to translate well into the NBA.

Not all players develop at the same rate. Look at Vince Carter, who wasn't even the best player on his team in college and went on to be a better pro than college player.

Valanciunas is going up against older, stronger, more experienced players. When Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant came into the NBA directly from high school, they didn't set the league on fire. That didn't mean that they lacked the potential to eventually dominate.

[CunningLinguist]

Barnes has such a great shooting stroke. I stand by my assertion that he could be the next Glen Rice.

Unless they win the ACC and go deep in the tourney there's no way that he declares though. He want's to be the #1 overall pick, not somewhere in the lotto.

What are the odds of him going #1 in what's likely to be a better 2012 draft class?

[baulderdash77]

You guys would rather draft a serious project over the likes of Terrence Jones, Derrick Williams, Harrison Barnes, Perry Jones, John Henson & Jordan Hamilton?

All these guys are more athletic & not fouling out in 25 minutes against top flight competition.

I have John Henson rated lower than most of these guys, but he's a better C in just about every way compared to Valanciunas. Plus he can actually play 30 minutes a game.

[karolis1221]

I think in general that great players dominate every level they're in. If you're not playing in the NBA and you're not dominating then you're not going to magically become a star in the NBA.

If this guy is getting pushed around and fouling out in Eurompe, he's going to get pushed around and foul out in the NBA but worse.

I know he's productive while he's in the game, but those easy buckes won't be there for him in the NBA and guys will actually compete for the rebounds in the NBA.

Watching the clips (which is all we can do) of him, I don't see a skill or athleticism that's going to translate well into the NBA.

Not all players develop at the same rate. Look at Vince Carter, who wasn't even the best player on his team in college and went on to be a better pro than college player.

Valanciunas is going up against older, stronger, more experienced players. When Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant came into the NBA directly from high school, they didn't set the league on fire. That didn't mean that they lacked the potential to eventually dominate.

i dont think he have potential to dominate like kevin garnet or other phenomenal athlete but to play good defence and grab 10-15boards in a game is realistic while scoring 10points.

[CunningLinguist]

Barnes just can't seem to beat his man off dribble

This is the one thing I want to see from him. He scores mostly on step back jumpers and set shots. He did create a nice shot with a few dribbles against Singler in the first half that didn't fall though.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Here's some stats on Henson's development by the way.

Since the NC State game when UNC turned it around (this is when we're talking about Harrison Barnes' major turning point) Henson has been averaging 12.7 & 12.2 with 3.5 blocks and only 1.8 fouls in 30 minutes.

That's some major productivity from a guy who's a true defensive C. He's super athletic and super long. I especially like his very low foul rate because he knows how to be productive and physical and stay in the game.

The defensive potential of a Davis/Henson/Amir frontcourt (assuming Bargs would have to be traded) really is fantastic.

I find it some of your comments puzzling.

Henson as a 6"10 200 pound 20 year old is somehow more suited to the NBA game as a C than Valanciunas, who is a 240 pound 18 year old at 6"11 with supposedly a 7"6 wingspan. Also factor in that Henson isn't even a C on his own college team. Also factor in Valanciunas is battling men in the best league outside the NBA. The only thing you have going for you is that Valanciunas fouls a lot. Seems pretty weak after that.