Tank World Order V (Rise of the Phoenix)

[Los_29]

Take away the SGA deal which was a product of luck and Presti has still done some good things. He drafted Chet, Jalen Williams. However, he whiffed on a few picks and traded the Sengun pick for essentially nothing. He also traded for Gordon Hayward as his big deadline addition to gear up for the playoffs. And we all know how that went.

Give it up. Look at this team. You tell me this is not better than our ceiling today and even if we get a top 5 pick tomorrow (next draft)?

Watch on YouTube

Not to mention the 10+ FRP and swaps they still got

What are you even talking about? I’d easily take OKC’s situation over ours. That’s not the argument. The point is their best player and a top 5 player was acquired not drafted. And the trade would’ve never happened if not for Kawhi. It completely changed how people perceive Presti. People wouldn’t be excited about a team led by Chet and Jdubs. Those are the best players Presti has drafted in this rebuild.

I really like the players on their team. It would be great if SGA could get a ring. And it’d be great for Presti to get one so he can get to that next tier with guys like Masai, Riley etc.

[PhilBlackson]

It's gonna take a miracle to end up with a top 4.

I keep saying but we're really gonna have to focus on who are the guys being projected just outside the top 10. The names that I just remain hopeful to be there when we pick are Khaman Malauch, Tre Johnson or Drake Powell. If we can walk out of the draft with one of those guys I'll still be pretty happy but Ace remains the dream lol

[Clutch0z24]

Not worried about the tank at all.....Good win on a back to back where Kings looked kind of dead....Raptors were energized and played really well ....Not missing many shots...Won't be sustainable

[720]

It's gonna take a miracle to end up with a top 4.

I keep saying but we're really gonna have to focus on who are the guys being projected just outside the top 10. The names that I just remain hopeful to be there when we pick are Khaman Malauch, Tre Johnson or Drake Powell. If we can walk out of the draft with one of those guys I'll still be pretty happy but Ace remains the dream lol

I don’t think we’re gonna be that good. Our record is gonna be abysmal by the time Scottie gets back. At which point if they start winning a few games we’ll be at the 9-12 range. So a potential play in team. At that point I feel like Masai will tank by sitting guys. If it’s before the trade deadline I fully expect some of the vets to get traded, which will help with the tank as well.

[C_Money]

If we ever get fully healthy the tank is done. Especially with Gradey having a breakout season.

[Clutch0z24]

Take away the SGA deal which was a product of luck and Presti has still done some good things. He drafted Chet, Jalen Williams. However, he whiffed on a few picks and traded the Sengun pick for essentially nothing. He also traded for Gordon Hayward as his big deadline addition to gear up for the playoffs. And we all know how that went.

Give it up. Look at this team. You tell me this is not better than our ceiling today and even if we get a top 5 pick tomorrow (next draft)?

Watch on YouTube

Not to mention the 10+ FRP and swaps they still got

What are you even talking about? I’d easily take OKC’s situation over ours. That’s not the argument. The point is their best player and a top 5 player was acquired not drafted. And the trade would’ve never happened if not for Kawhi. It completely changed how people perceive Presti. People wouldn’t be excited about a team led by Chet and Jdubs. Those are the best players Presti has drafted in this rebuild.

I really like the players on their team. It would be great if SGA could get a ring. And it’d be great for Presti to get one so he can get to that next tier with guys like Masai, Riley etc.

Thats like saying the only players Masai got during our title run was Siakam/Powell/FVV/OG....Because DeRozan/Lowry were not picked by him, We only got Ibaka cause BC Drafted Tross, Same with Gasol because Masai never drafted JV, And we used DD to get Kawhi,Which was a lucky trade to begin with....See how we can do the same thing with Masai....Just give Presti his props for being a good GM because he is good at asset management and drafting...Recipe for success...

[Los_29]

Give it up. Look at this team. You tell me this is not better than our ceiling today and even if we get a top 5 pick tomorrow (next draft)?

Watch on YouTube

Not to mention the 10+ FRP and swaps they still got

What are you even talking about? I’d easily take OKC’s situation over ours. That’s not the argument. The point is their best player and a top 5 player was acquired not drafted. And the trade would’ve never happened if not for Kawhi. It completely changed how people perceive Presti. People wouldn’t be excited about a team led by Chet and Jdubs. Those are the best players Presti has drafted in this rebuild.

I really like the players on their team. It would be great if SGA could get a ring. And it’d be great for Presti to get one so he can get to that next tier with guys like Masai, Riley etc.

Thats like saying the only players Masai got during our title run was Siakam/Powell/FVV/OG....Because DeRozan/Lowry were not picked by him, We only got Ibaka cause BC Drafted Tross, Same with Gasol because Masai never drafted JV, And we used DD to get Kawhi,Which was a lucky trade to begin with....See how we can do the same thing with Masai....Just give Presti his props for being a good GM because he is good at asset management and drafting...Recipe for success...

lol the only players Masai got were Siakam/FVV/Norm/OG? So half our rotation? All of which were drafted late or undrafted.

You’re completely missing the point. Presti did absolutely nothing to get SGA. He was in the right place at the right time. That trade alone set him up for so much success. If Kawhi didn’t choose to go to LAC and have George as his running mate then there is a very real possibility Presti would have kept both Westbrook and George and continued to get bounced in the first round.

Masai went out and got Gasol, Ibaka, Green and Kawhi. We were able to acquire those players because of how well he accumulated assets. The Kawhi trade was not lucky because any team could’ve had him. The word you are looking for is “risky” not lucky.

Presti is a good GM. But we also need to be objective and analyze all of his other moves, not just the SGA one which is more a product of luck than anything else. The Clippers would have given that deal to anyone.

[DelAbbot]

What are you even talking about? I’d easily take OKC’s situation over ours. That’s not the argument. The point is their best player and a top 5 player was acquired not drafted. And the trade would’ve never happened if not for Kawhi. It completely changed how people perceive Presti. People wouldn’t be excited about a team led by Chet and Jdubs. Those are the best players Presti has drafted in this rebuild.

I really like the players on their team. It would be great if SGA could get a ring. And it’d be great for Presti to get one so he can get to that next tier with guys like Masai, Riley etc.

Thats like saying the only players Masai got during our title run was Siakam/Powell/FVV/OG....Because DeRozan/Lowry were not picked by him, We only got Ibaka cause BC Drafted Tross, Same with Gasol because Masai never drafted JV, And we used DD to get Kawhi,Which was a lucky trade to begin with....See how we can do the same thing with Masai....Just give Presti his props for being a good GM because he is good at asset management and drafting...Recipe for success...

lol the only players Masai got were Siakam/FVV/Norm/OG? So half our rotation? All of which were drafted late or undrafted.

You’re completely missing the point. Presti did absolutely nothing to get SGA. He was in the right place at the right time. That trade alone set him up for so much success. If Kawhi didn’t choose to go to LAC and have George as his running mate then there is a very real possibility Presti would have kept both Westbrook and George and continued to get bounced in the first round.

Masai went out and got Gasol, Ibaka, Green and Kawhi. We were able to acquire those players because of how well he accumulated assets. The Kawhi trade was not lucky because any team could’ve had him. The word you are looking for is “risky” not lucky.

Presti is a good GM. But we also need to be objective and analyze all of his other moves, not just the SGA one which is more a product of luck than anything else. The Clippers would have given that deal to anyone.

Saying Presti did absolutely nothing to get SGA is equivalent to saying Masai did absolutely nothing to get Kawhi

[AbC?]

If you think this roster when healthy is good enough to make the play-in, that makes artificially deflating this team's win total this season even more appealing. Short term sacrifice for long-term benefit.

[AbC?]

Thats like saying the only players Masai got during our title run was Siakam/Powell/FVV/OG....Because DeRozan/Lowry were not picked by him, We only got Ibaka cause BC Drafted Tross, Same with Gasol because Masai never drafted JV, And we used DD to get Kawhi,Which was a lucky trade to begin with....See how we can do the same thing with Masai....Just give Presti his props for being a good GM because he is good at asset management and drafting...Recipe for success...

lol the only players Masai got were Siakam/FVV/Norm/OG? So half our rotation? All of which were drafted late or undrafted.

You’re completely missing the point. Presti did absolutely nothing to get SGA. He was in the right place at the right time. That trade alone set him up for so much success. If Kawhi didn’t choose to go to LAC and have George as his running mate then there is a very real possibility Presti would have kept both Westbrook and George and continued to get bounced in the first round.

Masai went out and got Gasol, Ibaka, Green and Kawhi. We were able to acquire those players because of how well he accumulated assets. The Kawhi trade was not lucky because any team could’ve had him. The word you are looking for is “risky” not lucky.

Presti is a good GM. But we also need to be objective and analyze all of his other moves, not just the SGA one which is more a product of luck than anything else. The Clippers would have given that deal to anyone.

Saying Presti did absolutely nothing to get SGA is equivalent to saying Masai did absolutely nothing to get Kawhi

It also completely ignores that he traded Serge Ibaka into Dipo/Sabonis who he then flipped for prime Paul George, and then got him to sign a 4 year max to stay in OKC, despite rumors he wanted to leave for an LA team.

To say he did nothing to get SGA is such a stretch lol

[Scase]

If you think this roster when healthy is good enough to make the play-in, that makes artificially deflating this team's win total this season even more appealing. Short term sacrifice for long-term benefit.

This is (not quite) like the spurs getting the 1st OA pick and picking Duncan. Why would you not want to add a top 5 pick to a team that is supposedly "good" when the chance is sitting on a silver platter right in front of you.

[Psubs]

Go Pistons!!! Go beat the Nets please.

Nice!!!!!

[GreatWhiteStiff]

If you think this roster when healthy is good enough to make the play-in, that makes artificially deflating this team's win total this season even more appealing. Short term sacrifice for long-term benefit.

Del would like this post.

I thick a reckoning is coming for the tWo. The truth is already apparent. It will dawn on ya'll soon.

PS. Aren' tthe nets about as bad as the pistons, or nah?

[DelAbbot]

It's gonna take a miracle to end up with a top 4.

I keep saying but we're really gonna have to focus on who are the guys being projected just outside the top 10. The names that I just remain hopeful to be there when we pick are Khaman Malauch, Tre Johnson or Drake Powell. If we can walk out of the draft with one of those guys I'll still be pretty happy but Ace remains the dream lol

I'm not well versed in this year's prospects yet. Can you sell me on Ace Bailey?

[dohboy_24]

If we ever get fully healthy the tank is done. Especially with Gradey having a breakout season.

After their first 7 games, the Raptors have a 2-5 record (29% win percentage) and are...

1st in MIN (346 minutes played)
14th in OFFRTG (113.0)
29th in DEFRTG (118.9)
23rd in NETRTG (-6.0)
6th in AST% (68.2%)
12th in AST/TO (1.70)
6th in AST RATIO (19.5)
1st in OREB% (38.2%)
14th in DREB% (70.2%)
1st in REB% (53.9%)
27th in TOV% (16.9%)
17th in EFG% (53.2%)
16th in TS% (56.9%)
5th in PACE (102.59)
21st in PIE (47.5)
1st in POSS (740)

SOURCE: https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

Given the expected return dates for Bruce Brown (Nov 30), Scottie Barnes (Nov 21), Kelly Olynyk (Nov 16), and Immanuel Quickley (day-to-day), it probably won't be until the start of December before we're back to full-strength - assuming nobody else gets hurt or misses games between now and then.

SOURCE: https://www.espn.com/nba/injuries

Our schedule until the end of the month (13 games)...

Nov 4 @ DEN
Nov 6 @ SAC
Nov 9 @ LAC
Nov 10 @ LAL
Nov 12 @ MIL
Nov 15 vs DET
Nov 16 @ BOS
Nov 18 vs IND
Nov 21 vs MIN
Nov 24 @ CLE
Nov 25 @ DET
Nov 27 @ NOP
Nov 29 @ MIA

SOURCE: https://www.nba.com/team/1610612761/schedule

Considering our opponents and the number of away/road games we are playing this month, winning five (5) of those games and coming away with a 5-8 record (38% win percentage) is likely the best outcome we could expect.

So... by the time December rolls around and we've played a quarter of our games, we could (at best) have a record of 7 wins and 13 losses (35% win percentage) and still be among the bottom ten (10) teams in the league who miss the play-in tournament/playoffs.

Unless we're able to flip that record over the next 20 games with a fully healthy team to end up with an even win loss column by the end of January, it's more likely than not the Raptors will be putting players like Bruce Brown and Jakob Poeltl on the trade block to end the season in a full-on rebuild mode.

[Vampirate]

It's gonna take a miracle to end up with a top 4.

I keep saying but we're really gonna have to focus on who are the guys being projected just outside the top 10. The names that I just remain hopeful to be there when we pick are Khaman Malauch, Tre Johnson or Drake Powell. If we can walk out of the draft with one of those guys I'll still be pretty happy but Ace remains the dream lol

Utah is it's own beast of Horrid, though Lauri may be back soon, but looking at the East.

The Wizards are bad, but we have a 2 game loss on them.

Trae will get the hawks a better record than us.

The Nets and Bulls are playing better than expected, Detroit actually has Cade and Ivey going now.

The Bucks and 76ers at some point are going to get healthy at some point and go on a run.

As for the Raptors we are, with Yak giving up the most points per game by almost 3 vs the 2nd worst.

Honestly the script has been flipped, we can score, but can't stop anyone.

[Scase]

It's gonna take a miracle to end up with a top 4.

I keep saying but we're really gonna have to focus on who are the guys being projected just outside the top 10. The names that I just remain hopeful to be there when we pick are Khaman Malauch, Tre Johnson or Drake Powell. If we can walk out of the draft with one of those guys I'll still be pretty happy but Ace remains the dream lol

Utah is it's own beast of Horrid, though Lauri may be back soon, but looking at the East.

The Wizards are bad, but we have a 2 game loss on them.

Trae will get the hawks a better record than us.

The Nets and Bulls are playing better than expected, Detroit actually has Cade and Ivey going now.

The Bucks and 76ers at some point are going to get healthy at some point and go on a run.

As for the Raptors we are, with Yak giving up the most points per game by almost 3 vs the 2nd worst.

Honestly the script has been flipped, we can score, but can't stop anyone.

I think the team fully healthy, we win more than WAS/BKN and maybe CHI. CHO is a wild card, but they look better this year. With these injuries, yeah we are definitely in the dumps. The hope is that we get so far behind due to the injuries that Masai doesn't even entertain the thought of trying to win in the 2nd half of the season and we make some "lose now" moves. Or, we sit guys with "injuries" and as I mentioned elsewhere, we try and pull a Spurs getting Duncan situation, where we have a good-ish team (obviously way worse than the spurs then) and add a top end pick without having to sacrifice any assets.

[Vampirate]

It's gonna take a miracle to end up with a top 4.

I keep saying but we're really gonna have to focus on who are the guys being projected just outside the top 10. The names that I just remain hopeful to be there when we pick are Khaman Malauch, Tre Johnson or Drake Powell. If we can walk out of the draft with one of those guys I'll still be pretty happy but Ace remains the dream lol

Utah is it's own beast of Horrid, though Lauri may be back soon, but looking at the East.

The Wizards are bad, but we have a 2 game loss on them.

Trae will get the hawks a better record than us.

The Nets and Bulls are playing better than expected, Detroit actually has Cade and Ivey going now.

The Bucks and 76ers at some point are going to get healthy at some point and go on a run.

As for the Raptors we are, with Yak giving up the most points per game by almost 3 vs the 2nd worst.

Honestly the script has been flipped, we can score, but can't stop anyone.

I think the team fully healthy, we win more than WAS/BKN and maybe CHI. CHO is a wild card, but they look better this year. With these injuries, yeah we are definitely in the dumps. The hope is that we get so far behind due to the injuries that Masai doesn't even entertain the thought of trying to win in the 2nd half of the season and we make some "lose now" moves. Or, we sit guys with "injuries" and as I mentioned elsewhere, we try and pull a Spurs getting Duncan situation, where we have a good-ish team (obviously way worse than the spurs then) and add a top end pick without having to sacrifice any assets.

Conspiracy theory time.

Yak has always had a positive DBPM aside from his rookie year. This year thus far he's a -0.9. keep in mind he's been on some bad SA teams.

I do kind of wonder if they told him something to not try on defense so much so the loses pile up and get to keep him after the draft. That pre season presser is curious.

Small sample size of games and all. It's also possible losing Barnes has cratered the defense as well.

In any event we get to find pout if RJ and Gradey can improve the defence and see if they can keep up their offence and how much of it is real. Regardless of the result it's a win/win.

[Scase]

Utah is it's own beast of Horrid, though Lauri may be back soon, but looking at the East.

The Wizards are bad, but we have a 2 game loss on them.

Trae will get the hawks a better record than us.

The Nets and Bulls are playing better than expected, Detroit actually has Cade and Ivey going now.

The Bucks and 76ers at some point are going to get healthy at some point and go on a run.

As for the Raptors we are, with Yak giving up the most points per game by almost 3 vs the 2nd worst.

Honestly the script has been flipped, we can score, but can't stop anyone.

I think the team fully healthy, we win more than WAS/BKN and maybe CHI. CHO is a wild card, but they look better this year. With these injuries, yeah we are definitely in the dumps. The hope is that we get so far behind due to the injuries that Masai doesn't even entertain the thought of trying to win in the 2nd half of the season and we make some "lose now" moves. Or, we sit guys with "injuries" and as I mentioned elsewhere, we try and pull a Spurs getting Duncan situation, where we have a good-ish team (obviously way worse than the spurs then) and add a top end pick without having to sacrifice any assets.

Conspiracy theory time.

Yak has always had a positive DBPM aside from his rookie year. This year thus far he's a -0.9. keep in mind he's been on some bad SA teams.

I do kind of wonder if they told him something to not try on defense so much so the loses pile up and get to keep him after the draft. That pre season presser is curious.

Small sample size of games and all. It's also possible losing Barnes has cratered the defense as well.

In any event we get to find pout if RJ and Gradey can improve the defence and see if they can keep up their offence and how much of it is real. Regardless of the result it's a win/win.

Jak doesn't strike me as the type to phone it in for the org to lose games haha. But I'd be happy if we could keep him AND get a top 5 pick. But if I had to choose one or the other, it's the pick + the return for Jak 100% of the time.

[Brinbe]

If we ever get fully healthy the tank is done. Especially with Gradey having a breakout season.

After their first 7 games, the Raptors have a 2-5 record (29% win percentage) and are...

1st in MIN (346 minutes played)
14th in OFFRTG (113.0)
29th in DEFRTG (118.9)
23rd in NETRTG (-6.0)
6th in AST% (68.2%)
12th in AST/TO (1.70)
6th in AST RATIO (19.5)
1st in OREB% (38.2%)
14th in DREB% (70.2%)
1st in REB% (53.9%)
27th in TOV% (16.9%)
17th in EFG% (53.2%)
16th in TS% (56.9%)
5th in PACE (102.59)
21st in PIE (47.5)
1st in POSS (740)

SOURCE: https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?dir=A&sort=NET_RATING

Given the expected return dates for Bruce Brown (Nov 30), Scottie Barnes (Nov 21), Kelly Olynyk (Nov 16), and Immanuel Quickley (day-to-day), it probably won't be until the start of December before we're back to full-strength - assuming nobody else gets hurt or misses games between now and then.

SOURCE: https://www.espn.com/nba/injuries

Our schedule until the end of the month (13 games)...

Nov 4 @ DEN
Nov 6 @ SAC
Nov 9 @ LAC
Nov 10 @ LAL
Nov 12 @ MIL
Nov 15 vs DET
Nov 16 @ BOS
Nov 18 vs IND
Nov 21 vs MIN
Nov 24 @ CLE
Nov 25 @ DET
Nov 27 @ NOP
Nov 29 @ MIA

SOURCE: https://www.nba.com/team/1610612761/schedule

Considering our opponents and the number of away/road games we are playing this month, winning five (5) of those games and coming away with a 5-8 record (38% win percentage) is likely the best outcome we could expect.

So... by the time December rolls around and we've played a quarter of our games, we could (at best) have a record of 7 wins and 13 losses (35% win percentage) and still be among the bottom ten (10) teams in the league who miss the play-in tournament/playoffs.

Unless we're able to flip that record over the next 20 games with a fully healthy team to end up with an even win loss column by the end of January, it's more likely than not the Raptors will be putting players like Bruce Brown and Jakob Poeltl on the trade block to end the season in a full-on rebuild mode.

great post, this is exactly how i see things going too. they definitely have a tanking plan this season.