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Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#641 » by Kenter16 » Sat Jul 3, 2021 10:05 pm

Kenter16 wrote:We are a massive favourite today vs the Czechs, -15.5. While the Turks are only -2.5 favourites against Greece. Vegas loves this Canadian team.

Santoransky is the biggest threat we will face today. He will play 36 or maybe even 40 minutes. I think we can contain him. We will probably switch everything like we have done for the most part. We will have 5 guys on the court who can contain him. Lu Dort will be key again. The Czechs have been brutal when it comes to turnovers. Lu should be able to cause havoc.

This is such a huge weekend for the national program (obviously). I believe we are gonna win both and go to the Olympics. We have looked good and there seems to be a real belief in this team amongst themselves.

They have played some incredibly unselfish basketball. Moving the ball, finding open shots and rebounding as a team. The size disadvantage isn’t a problem for us because we force the other team to use athletic players who can defend beyond the 3 pt line. We have so many guys who can score it’s very difficult to stop. We can’t be matched skill wise.

Also, we have one of the best coaches in the world. His in game adjustments are genius. He just knows how to read what the opponent is doing and how to counter precisely.


What idiot wrote that....
Heartbreaking. Not much else to say. Couldn't hit a 3 ALL game, no one could.

We keep losing, which means we will continue to find it hard to get guys to play, which means we won't get results, which means our ranking will stay low, which means we won't get good draws in these tournaments. We will always be in the toughest groups with the lowest turnouts.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#642 » by metafisical » Sat Jul 3, 2021 10:59 pm

Kenter16 wrote:
Kenter16 wrote:We are a massive favourite today vs the Czechs, -15.5. While the Turks are only -2.5 favourites against Greece. Vegas loves this Canadian team.

Santoransky is the biggest threat we will face today. He will play 36 or maybe even 40 minutes. I think we can contain him. We will probably switch everything like we have done for the most part. We will have 5 guys on the court who can contain him. Lu Dort will be key again. The Czechs have been brutal when it comes to turnovers. Lu should be able to cause havoc.

This is such a huge weekend for the national program (obviously). I believe we are gonna win both and go to the Olympics. We have looked good and there seems to be a real belief in this team amongst themselves.

They have played some incredibly unselfish basketball. Moving the ball, finding open shots and rebounding as a team. The size disadvantage isn’t a problem for us because we force the other team to use athletic players who can defend beyond the 3 pt line. We have so many guys who can score it’s very difficult to stop. We can’t be matched skill wise.

Also, we have one of the best coaches in the world. His in game adjustments are genius. He just knows how to read what the opponent is doing and how to counter precisely.


What idiot wrote that....
Heartbreaking. Not much else to say. Couldn't hit a 3 ALL game, no one could.

We keep losing, which means we will continue to find it hard to get guys to play, which means we won't get results, which means our ranking will stay low, which means we won't get good draws in these tournaments. We will always be in the toughest groups with the lowest turnouts.


It's the Canadian way. Why make things easy for you, your team, when you can just do things the hard and impossible way?

At least Canada's men's national soccer team seems to have turned a corner for World Cup qualification and getting talent to play for the national team...
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#643 » by Kenter16 » Sat Jul 3, 2021 11:31 pm

Sounds like Nurse may be out. Too soon to jump to conclusions, but if he was all in he would have stated that.

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#644 » by steadysoul » Sat Jul 3, 2021 11:37 pm

Kenter16 wrote:Sounds like Nurse may be out. Too soon to jump to conclusions, but if he was all in he would have stated that.

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Wouldn't be surprised if there was a management shake up.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#645 » by And1Skip » Sat Jul 3, 2021 11:38 pm

Kenter16 wrote:Sounds like Nurse may be out. Too soon to jump to conclusions, but if he was all in he would have stated that.

Read on Twitter
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If a championship coach like Nurse can’t get the best players to commit, then it would have to take a Coach Steve Nash to do it…oh wait even Nash couldn’t get commitment when he was GM. I hope he will stay but who knows. This process is like a broken record.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#646 » by TheFutureMM » Sun Jul 4, 2021 3:08 pm

Didn't read all of the comments (yet) but just wanted to put this out into the universe - yesterday was the danger of playing 1 do or die game. In the NBA playoffs, the better team advances 9 times out of 10 because they play a best of 7 series. In FIBA (unfortunately for us), you leave it all out on the floor for 40 minutes and the winner moves on. It's high stakes and sometimes variance isn't in your favour. It's the same reason why the #1 team in College very rarely wins the whole tourney - you can be incredibly talented but sometimes someone plays out of their mind and it's a wrap.

Up until the last two minutes of the 4th, we were shooting sub-20% from 3 and our opponents were shooting 45%+. 37 year old Blake Schilb (soon to be 38) turned into Klay Thompson and played probably the best professional game of basketball in his entire life. That's it - that's all it takes to be sent home in these conditions. Those who have been following since 2015 have seen this before with Ven.

Couple things I also want to highlight as this place is probably a void of despair. We were down all game and still fought hard start to finish. Our best players (Wiggins and Barrett) stepped up when they needed to. NAW showed an edge that this team has missed for a long time - there were moments where it was very clear he KNEW he was better than anyone on the Czech team and showed it. It took Sataransky making an insane shot to finally put a stake through our hearts. Even then, Nick drew up a beautiful look and it rimmed out. It sucks but it's not embarrassing.

Also, we complain about all the guys who did and didn't show up. How Doornekamp made the team, etc. These guys, 1-12 answered the call and should be celebrated. Nick Nurse is a world class coach. It sucks, to miss out on yet another window BUT the future is bright. The Cadet teams are consistently good and it will translate eventually - it has too. I've been following since 2011 and we've been incrementally better every cycle.

Moving onto the U19 now - the boys are good and I can't wait to see how that tournament goes.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#647 » by mojo13 » Sun Jul 4, 2021 3:35 pm

TheFutureMM wrote:Didn't read all of the comments (yet) but just wanted to put this out into the universe - yesterday was the danger of playing 1 do or die game. In the NBA playoffs, the better team advances 9 times out of 10 because they play a best of 7 series. In FIBA (unfortunately for us), you leave it all out on the floor for 40 minutes and the winner moves on. It's high stakes and sometimes variance isn't in your favour. It's the same reason why the #1 team in College very rarely wins the whole tourney - you can be incredibly talented but sometimes someone plays out of their mind and it's a wrap.

Up until the last two minutes of the 4th, we were shooting sub-20% from 3 and our opponents were shooting 45%+. 37 year old Blake Schilb (soon to be 38) turned into Klay Thompson and played probably the best professional game of basketball in his entire life. That's it - that's all it takes to be sent home in these conditions. Those who have been following since 2015 have seen this before with Ven.

Couple things I also want to highlight as this place is probably a void of despair. We were down all game and still fought hard start to finish. Our best players (Wiggins and Barrett) stepped up when they needed to. NAW showed an edge that this team has missed for a long time - there were moments where it was very clear he KNEW he was better than anyone on the Czech team and showed it. It took Sataransky making an insane shot to finally put a stake through our hearts. Even then, Nick drew up a beautiful look and it rimmed out. It sucks but it's not embarrassing.

Also, we complain about all the guys who did and didn't show up. How Doornekamp made the team, etc. These guys, 1-12 answered the call and should be celebrated. Nick Nurse is a world class coach. It sucks, to miss out on yet another window BUT the future is bright. The Cadet teams are consistently good and it will translate eventually - it has too. I've been following since 2011 and we've been incrementally better every cycle.

Moving onto the U19 now - the boys are good and I can't wait to see how that tournament goes.





Well said. Thank you.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#648 » by ItsDanger » Sun Jul 4, 2021 3:49 pm

Against these FIBA teams, you need some size. You had 6'9 Powell as your only legit big and he got into early foul trouble. Our talent pool in next 2-3 years is going to increase a lot. But will they play? I think a lot of the younger guys coming through now will do it.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#649 » by Kenter16 » Sun Jul 4, 2021 4:55 pm

While I agree with everyone that the future is bright, today I am down in the dumps about the national team. I believe we have the talent to succeed and become a world power, but these loses keep stacking the deck against us. Let me roll out the next 3 years here. ..


Next summer is the FIBA Americup in September of '22. This tournament does not yet have a host. I would love to see Canada jump in and host it, would be fantastic for basketball in this country. Besides that, the tournament is meaningless in terms of Olympic or World cup qualification. It used to means something but now is a stand-alone tournament. This is very unfortunate for us as this is the tournament we would likely be able to draw the most NBA participation. Travel would be limited as you would obviously only go somewhere in the Americas. I bet we see a fairly good NBA turn out for this. It will be fun to watch but won't mean much beyond the 10 day tournament.

Summer '23 will bring the world cup, this time in Japan/Indonesia. We will have to qualify through the 'FIFA style' windows throughout the NBA season. I expect we will have the same NBA level participation as the world cup in China. In terms of relative location to us, it's the same. It will require another 6-7 week commitment, also. Couple that with the fact we will still be ranked in the 20's in the world rankings. That means we will be in pot 3 for the draw. So we will be in a group with two excellent teams. So, it's likely this world cup will be similar to the last. We could get lucky because the world rankings are SOOO slow to change, we could get an Argentina, Australia or France. These programs were better 5 years ago and won't be as good in 3.

One reason to believe we will field a better team is just the shear number of players we are producing. It is staggering. The key there is that not all the players will make the NBA. So guys like Kabengele, Shittu, Karim Mane, Nate Darling, Lindell Wigginton, Kyle Alexander, Tyler Ennis, Marial Shayok and more will possibly (still) be playing in Europe. This will improve our team over the 2019 version. But, like I said, we will be in tough in our group. We would have to pull an upset in the group stage and upsets usually come from chemistry. As we have seen with these windows and these tournaments that require huge commitments, we won't be able to build that.

That leads us to Paris '24. The only way to qualify is through the world cup, which at this point seems unlikely. So, we will be forced to win another one of these play in tournaments. This time we will not be hosting. We will likely have to travel half way across the world. They try to split up the America's teams, so we won't get lucky and have a tournament within 5000 km of us. Thus, NBA participation will be limited. As we have seen, even with NBA talent these tournaments are very difficult to win.

In conclusion, If we ever make it to the Olympics we will be a medal contender. We will get a team full of NBA players and our talent level will only be exceeded by the Americans. This will be fun to watch. The problem is getting there. It is such an incredibly difficult process with seemingly a million travel miles, an endless supply of bad ref's, an endless amount of tough and gritty national teams that have played together since birth and an endless amount or reasons our best players cannot participate. I will always cheer for whoever puts on that jersey, but expectations should be lowered. Olympic participation in Paris is not the likely outcome, it's a long shot.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#650 » by frumble » Sun Jul 4, 2021 9:26 pm

With Italy and Slovenia being Serbia and Lithuania today, none of the hosts of the four qualifying tournaments made it.

And with Germany beating Brazil, all of the spots went to European teams.

As we discussed on this board several years ago when it was announced, the new format is not good for us.

That being said, we did qulaify for the 2019 Worlds in 19 despite the new format, but we had were awful at the Worlds.
Our Worlds performances have been atrocious - under Leo, Triano, and Nurse.
2019: Somewhere b/w 21st and 24th (out of 32) (I didn't bother looking up the classification tiebreakers)
2014: failed to qualify (under the old, easier format)
2010: 31st (out of 32 teams)
2006: failed to qualify
2002: 13th (out of 24 - we won the consolation bracket).

The Worlds is so much easier to qualify for than the Olympics (32 teams intead of 12, with 7 spots for the Americas under the new format), that we should be able to make it even with no NBA or EuroLeague players available for several of the windows.

If we then took the Worlds a little more seriously, instead of treating the Olympics as the be-all, end-all, we could maybe build some momentum for the program.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#651 » by ItsDanger » Sun Jul 4, 2021 9:48 pm

Problem with the World Cup there are only 2 Americas qualified for Olympics. US is going to be one of them and that leaves one spot. If I'm the players, I would try here to avoid theses qualifiers. Then the commitment time at the Olympics is much shorter. Block off about 3 weeks for the next worlds, thats not too much to ask. Its not like Brazil & Argentina are powerhouses anymore. With close to a full lineup, Canada should beat them. I think for the players, the location and the time commitment are two factors that make them avoid it.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#652 » by TheFutureMM » Sun Jul 4, 2021 11:00 pm

Kenter16 wrote: Next summer is the FIBA Americup in September of '22. This tournament does not yet have a host. I would love to see Canada jump in and host it, would be fantastic for basketball in this country. Besides that, the tournament is meaningless in terms of Olympic or World cup qualification. It used to means something but now is a stand-alone tournament. This is very unfortunate for us as this is the tournament we would likely be able to draw the most NBA participation. Travel would be limited as you would obviously only go somewhere in the Americas. I bet we see a fairly good NBA turn out for this. It will be fun to watch but won't mean much beyond the 10 day tournament.


I wish we took the Americup seriously - it's something that has always irked me about Team Canada. As you mentioned in your post, our ranking is crap, hurts us in pot placement for tournaments like this past one, and we don't do well enough in the tourneys we do participate in to increase it. Americup, which no one takes seriously because it has such low prestige for the American teams could be an opportunity for us to build on our ranking and a message needs to go out to our players that this is a long-term play to have better positioning in the big ones (World Cup and Olympics).

It's kind of funny because I genuinely believe we would have gotten rocked in the Olympics but even picking up a win against Iran and losses to the US + France would have helped our ranking due to the tournaments weight. Such a missed opportunity.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#653 » by steadysoul » Sun Jul 4, 2021 11:19 pm

TheFutureMM wrote:
Kenter16 wrote: Next summer is the FIBA Americup in September of '22. This tournament does not yet have a host. I would love to see Canada jump in and host it, would be fantastic for basketball in this country. Besides that, the tournament is meaningless in terms of Olympic or World cup qualification. It used to means something but now is a stand-alone tournament. This is very unfortunate for us as this is the tournament we would likely be able to draw the most NBA participation. Travel would be limited as you would obviously only go somewhere in the Americas. I bet we see a fairly good NBA turn out for this. It will be fun to watch but won't mean much beyond the 10 day tournament.


I wish we took the Americup seriously - it's something that has always irked me about Team Canada. As you mentioned in your post, our ranking is crap, hurts us in pot placement for tournaments like this past one, and we don't do well enough in the tourneys we do participate in to increase it. Americup, which no one takes seriously because it has such low prestige for the American teams could be an opportunity for us to build on our ranking and a message needs to go out to our players that this is a long-term play to have better positioning in the big ones (World Cup and Olympics).

It's kind of funny because I genuinely believe we would have gotten rocked in the Olympics but even picking up a win against Iran and losses to the US + France would have helped our ranking due to the tournaments weight. Such a missed opportunity.


This is correct because Canada might drop in rankings simply because Nigeria/Iran qualified and Canada didn't.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#654 » by Madvillainy2004 » Mon Jul 5, 2021 12:15 am

Honeslty I'm just not into FIBA we just can't field teams that can grow together. US doesn't matter but for us the tourneys in the NBA windows and (Injuries, contract status, etc.). I just have 0 idea how we can even qualify, our ranking is so so so hard to build on.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#655 » by Calinks » Mon Jul 5, 2021 1:07 am

Super bummed about Canada this year as I have been saying since like 2015, that they are going to medal soon. If healthy, you guys would be an absolute force but you also need more time to gel. The schedule with the NBA has really screwed things up. I also think both US and Canada are making HUGE mistakes by not going bigger. Seems like in North America we are still trying to do small ball but man, it is really hard to stop these huge international centers from killing you when you got no size.

Being able to have some bigs who can pound the ball in the paint is the ultimate bailout in FIBA as sometimes the shots just don't drop and the guards can't get away with he space and little contact they do in the NBA. Bigs are still pretty damn important in the FIBA game.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#656 » by And1Skip » Mon Jul 5, 2021 1:40 am

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#657 » by juli_rc » Mon Jul 5, 2021 1:42 am

It's this is 2015? Is like reading the same opinions all over again.

We'll come back stronger...
We get some much more talented youths
Argentina, Spain, Australia and others are getting old or with less talented players...
That kind of opinion are from 2015/2016. Exact ones.

And now, this one:
"If we ever make it to the Olympics we will be a medal contender. We will get a team full of NBA players and our talent level will only be exceeded by the Americans. This will be fun to watch. The problem is getting there."
LMAO!

So the problem is to beat Venezuela (2015), Checz Republic and Greece (2021).
Defeating 2 or 3 of this 4 teams (Argentina, Spain, Australia or France) to get a final against the USA is the easy part?

Ok, let's back to earth.
Canada needs to stop thinking in 2024 and start thinking next year Americup 2022 tourney. They need to send the best players they have and start a training camp 1 month before tip off. They need a change of mentality that winning this kind of tournament could do. Maybe then...
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#658 » by Kenter16 » Mon Jul 5, 2021 2:10 am

juli_rc wrote:It's this is 2015? Is like reading the same opinions all over again.

We'll come back stronger...
We get some much more talented youths
Argentina, Spain, Australia and others are getting old or with less talented players...
That kind of opinion are from 2015/2016. Exact ones.

And now, this one:
"If we ever make it to the Olympics we will be a medal contender. We will get a team full of NBA players and our talent level will only be exceeded by the Americans. This will be fun to watch. The problem is getting there."
LMAO!

So the problem is to beat Venezuela (2015), Checz Republic and Greece (2021).
Defeating 2 or 3 of this 4 teams (Argentina, Spain, Australia or France) to get a final against the USA is the easy part?

Ok, let's back to earth.
Canada needs to stop thinking in 2024 and start thinking next year Americup 2022 tourney. They need to send the best players they have and start a training camp 1 month before tip off. They need a change of mentality that winning this kind of tournament could do. Maybe then...


Oh boy. I am sure you did not read the whole post or the sentences following that one you quoted.
I did not say we would be in the final, I said our talent would only be matched by the US. Also, 'the problem is getting there' is not a past problem it's a future problem, as was the theme of my post.
It's seem like you read one sentence of that post and it triggered something for you.
My whole post is about how we are in for another cycle of disappointment. But having said that, your top points are true. We will come back stronger because our player pool keeps growing. We do have a great youth system which is ranked #2 in the world. We are producing more talent than any other nation besides the states right now. These are facts. Results have not come, that's the problem and will continue to be a problem (see my post above, you know, the one you pulled a couple sentences from and made up a different narrative about).
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#659 » by juli_rc » Mon Jul 5, 2021 3:45 am

Kenter16 wrote:
juli_rc wrote:It's this is 2015? Is like reading the same opinions all over again.

We'll come back stronger...
We get some much more talented youths
Argentina, Spain, Australia and others are getting old or with less talented players...
That kind of opinion are from 2015/2016. Exact ones.

And now, this one:
"If we ever make it to the Olympics we will be a medal contender. We will get a team full of NBA players and our talent level will only be exceeded by the Americans. This will be fun to watch. The problem is getting there."
LMAO!

So the problem is to beat Venezuela (2015), Checz Republic and Greece (2021).
Defeating 2 or 3 of this 4 teams (Argentina, Spain, Australia or France) to get a final against the USA is the easy part?

Ok, let's back to earth.
Canada needs to stop thinking in 2024 and start thinking next year Americup 2022 tourney. They need to send the best players they have and start a training camp 1 month before tip off. They need a change of mentality that winning this kind of tournament could do. Maybe then...


Oh boy. I am sure you did not read the whole post or the sentences following that one you quoted.
I did not say we would be in the final, I said our talent would only be matched by the US. Also, 'the problem is getting there' is not a past problem it's a future problem, as was the theme of my post.
It's seem like you read one sentence of that post and it triggered something for you.
My whole post is about how we are in for another cycle of disappointment. But having said that, your top points are true. We will come back stronger because our player pool keeps growing. We do have a great youth system which is ranked #2 in the world. We are producing more talent than any other nation besides the states right now. These are facts. Results have not come, that's the problem and will continue to be a problem (see my post above, you know, the one you pulled a couple sentences from and made up a different narrative about).


1)
I said our talent would only be matched by the US.
US is by far superior of any team Canada can assemble. To playing one-to-one basketball you have to be talented like the US. Canada can't do it.

2) The same problem was in the past (2015), is in the present now (2019-2021) and if nothing change in the future.

3) Talented and gifted players are not the only variable in the equation of success. You need all the variables in order to have a chance against fiba top 5 teams.
A list with few variables:
Talent (check on this one)
Team chemistry (need playing some tournaments togheter)
Commitment (needs months of training)
Knowledge (the rules of fiba, adversary strengh and weakness)
Experince (very dificult to achieve as a team)
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0 

Post#660 » by Calinks » Mon Jul 5, 2021 3:47 am

Don't sleep on Czech Republic, that is clearly a well-oiled team. Basketball is a team sport and even great talent can be overcome if a team is playing at maximum cohesion. Canada shot horribly for much of that game and they still fought back and were in it. CR just destroyed Brazil in a blowout that wasn't even a question. That's a good squad, if the Canada team had more time to practice and play together it would probably have been a different story.
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