Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[Tha Cynic]

Should of just drafted Wagner if the FO never intended to rebuild.

Even if they were never planning to rebuild you take Barnes over Wagner lol. Barnes has a way better overall game and takeover ability.

No to the former, yes to the latter.

Disagree. If you wanted that type of offense immediately, you can sign guys who do that. You're looking for more with a 4th overall pick.

By your logic, Wagner should be drafted ahead of Banchero too for a win now team.

[HumbleRen]

Even if they were never planning to rebuild you take Barnes over Wagner lol. Barnes has a way better overall game and takeover ability.

No to the former, yes to the latter.

Disagree. If you wanted that type of offense immediately, you can sign guys who do that. You're looking for more with a 4th overall pick.

By your logic, Wagner should be drafted ahead of Banchero too for a win now team.

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

[Tha Cynic]

Too low on Scottie. I don't think we take into account that he hasn't been able to play his natural position this entire season. He's a point 4. He's been playing **** SG lol. Everyone chill. He has IT. There's a reason that he goes off every 4th, or during these nice prime time matchups he's the one who steps up. Y'all gotta be patient with the kid. He's going to be a star. If they can just pair him with an elite bucket getter and some shooters I still think he has the potential to be the best player on a chip team. Idk if this deal would work out but I'd look into a Siakam for anfirnee Simmons package in the offseason.

Actually, he has been the guy tossed into multiple roles so that everyone else can stay at their natural positions. Barnes hasn't been able to play one position all season. In fact he plays multiple positions and roles within games.

It's my opinion, but It's wild to me that people think Wagner would have been a better pick. I can understand in most cases why a guy who can score more naturally may look sexier initially to some people, but Barnes has shown numerous times an ability to take over games that Wagner has never shown. He's not your prototypical raw player. Wagner will be a 4th or 5th most important guy on a decent team when it's all set and done. He's not Jason Tatum lol.

[Tha Cynic]

No to the former, yes to the latter.

Disagree. If you wanted that type of offense immediately, you can sign guys who do that. You're looking for more with a 4th overall pick.

By your logic, Wagner should be drafted ahead of Banchero too for a win now team.

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

So Gallinari? I see a similar career trajectory actually with Wagner playing in a more shooter friendly era.

[ItsDanger]

Drafting Scottie allowed them to create unique lineups. They're not at all currently which is frustrating. Should be the PG on offense but paired with a scoring threat C that screens hard. Poeltl isnt it.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

That turnaround paint shot looks nice. He has good touch in the paint

[HumbleRen]

Disagree. If you wanted that type of offense immediately, you can sign guys who do that. You're looking for more with a 4th overall pick.

By your logic, Wagner should be drafted ahead of Banchero too for a win now team.

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

So Gallinari?

Scottie letting Gallinari 2.0 be a better finisher at the rim than him ? That's tough.

[Tha Cynic]

Barnes should have the ball in his hands, not sure he needs to be classified the PG. The Raptors don't ever play natural anymore anyway other than Poeltl since they drafted him. What is the difference between a point forward and PG in this offense? Barnes has also been using the pick and roll a lot more to generate looks recently. The growth is happening with more reps. A key part of this has been FVV playing more controlled on offense lately, allowing Barnes to have a better opportunity as initiator and scorer.

[DemHeavyHands]

No to the former, yes to the latter.

Disagree. If you wanted that type of offense immediately, you can sign guys who do that. You're looking for more with a 4th overall pick.

By your logic, Wagner should be drafted ahead of Banchero too for a win now team.

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

Cmon bro you are overrating Wagner lol

Only thing he’s better than Scottie at right now is scoring, nothing else. So yes, with this current raptors team Wagner would be a better fit because of his shooting/scoring, but that team would still be a first rd exit

Wagner has not shown the same ability to be an overall threat- rebounding, playmaking, defense.. his ceiling is not close to Scottie’s at all.

Wagner’s ceiling imo is somewhere between Gallinari and Glen rice, on the high end. Big forward who is a great scorer, maybe 1-2x all star, not a bad player at all. But Scottie’s ceiling is higher than that

[Tha Cynic]

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

So Gallinari?

Scottie letting Gallinari 2.0 be a better finisher at the rim than him ? That's tough.

It happens sometimes as players grow. Sometimes the stats shift as seasons pass. Barnes is definitely a better inside scorer lol. There's zero debate there is that's what you're trying to argue.

[HumbleRen]

Disagree. If you wanted that type of offense immediately, you can sign guys who do that. You're looking for more with a 4th overall pick.

By your logic, Wagner should be drafted ahead of Banchero too for a win now team.

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

Cmon bro you are overrating Wagner lol

Only thing he’s better than Scottie at right now is scoring, nothing else. So yes, with this current raptors team Wagner would be a better fit because of his shooting/scoring, but that team would still be a first rd exit

Wagner has not shown the same ability to be an overall threat- rebounding, playmaking, defense.. his ceiling is not close to Scottie’s at all.

Wagner’s ceiling imo is somewhere between Gallinari and Glen rice, on the high end. Big forward who is a great scorer, maybe 1-2x all star, not a bad player at all. But Scottie’s ceiling is higher than that

Hard to take this seriously when he can't even be a competent 3rd option on a play in team.

[HumbleRen]

So Gallinari?

Scottie letting Gallinari 2.0 be a better finisher at the rim than him ? That's tough.

It happens sometimes as players grow. Sometimes the stats shift as seasons pass. Barnes is definitely a better inside scorer lol. There's zero debate there is that's what you're trying to argue.

RESTRICTED AREA

Franz Wagner - 66%

Scottie Barnes - 64%

IN THE PAINT

Franz Wagner - 40%

Scottie Barnes 42%


I'm not going to bring up anything outside of that because Franz wipes the floor with him in every other faucet of scoring lol.

Can Scottie become a better player in the future ? Probable if this roster makes some changes. On this current iteration ? Hell no.

[Tha Cynic]

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

Cmon bro you are overrating Wagner lol

Only thing he’s better than Scottie at right now is scoring, nothing else. So yes, with this current raptors team Wagner would be a better fit because of his shooting/scoring, but that team would still be a first rd exit

Wagner has not shown the same ability to be an overall threat- rebounding, playmaking, defense.. his ceiling is not close to Scottie’s at all.

Wagner’s ceiling imo is somewhere between Gallinari and Glen rice, on the high end. Big forward who is a great scorer, maybe 1-2x all star, not a bad player at all. But Scottie’s ceiling is higher than that

Hard to take this seriously when he can't even be a competent 3rd option on a play in team.

Your entire analysis is based on if a player today looks like a 3 level scorer or not lol. If they do then you rate them higher than anyone else. In fact you don't even look at if a player has shown they can score from multiple areas and don't factor growth into it lol. Can't take these closed minded views seriously either. I think some "grass is greener" is also factoring into your judgements because you're a bit more lenient for other teams even if their efficiency is bad.

[HumbleRen]

Cmon bro you are overrating Wagner lol

Only thing he’s better than Scottie at right now is scoring, nothing else. So yes, with this current raptors team Wagner would be a better fit because of his shooting/scoring, but that team would still be a first rd exit

Wagner has not shown the same ability to be an overall threat- rebounding, playmaking, defense.. his ceiling is not close to Scottie’s at all.

Wagner’s ceiling imo is somewhere between Gallinari and Glen rice, on the high end. Big forward who is a great scorer, maybe 1-2x all star, not a bad player at all. But Scottie’s ceiling is higher than that

Hard to take this seriously when he can't even be a competent 3rd option on a play in team.

Your entire analysis is based on if a player today looks like a 3 level scorer or not lol. If they do then you rate them higher than anyone else. In fact you don't even look at where a player has shown they can score from multiple areas and don't factor growth into it lol. Can't take these closed minded views seriously either.

You have to in today's NBA.

Scottie is not a good enough athlete to get by on being a 1 or 2 level scorer.

It's not like Scottie's some defensive stalwart to make up for it either, he's a defensive liability most times but that's mainly due to Nurse forcing him to guard perimeter players instead of utilizing him as a help defender.

[DemHeavyHands]

We’ve already had this argument before. We just fundamentally disagree on this lol.

The notion that a 6’10 3 level scorer somehow has a way lower ceiling than a guy who is struggling to be the 5th option on a non playoff team is ridiculous lol.

Cmon bro you are overrating Wagner lol

Only thing he’s better than Scottie at right now is scoring, nothing else. So yes, with this current raptors team Wagner would be a better fit because of his shooting/scoring, but that team would still be a first rd exit

Wagner has not shown the same ability to be an overall threat- rebounding, playmaking, defense.. his ceiling is not close to Scottie’s at all.

Wagner’s ceiling imo is somewhere between Gallinari and Glen rice, on the high end. Big forward who is a great scorer, maybe 1-2x all star, not a bad player at all. But Scottie’s ceiling is higher than that

Hard to take this seriously when he can't even be a competent 3rd option on a play in team.

??? Weird thing to say

Is he a 3rd option? Earlier u said 5th? Which one is it?? This is why we need to move on from Fred and siakam so we can see what we really have in Barnes. I’ve seen enough to be a believer tho. This current team just has too many chemistry issues and power struggles.

Btw Wagner is the 2nd option on a team worse than the raps

[Tha Cynic]

Scottie letting Gallinari 2.0 be a better finisher at the rim than him ? That's tough.

It happens sometimes as players grow. Sometimes the stats shift as seasons pass. Barnes is definitely a better inside scorer lol. There's zero debate there is that's what you're trying to argue.

RESTRICTED AREA

Franz Wagner - 66%

Scottie Barnes - 64%

IN THE PAINT

Franz Wagner - 40%

Scottie Barnes 42%


I'm not going to bring up anything outside of that because Franz wipes the floor with him in every other faucet of scoring lol.

Can Scottie become a better player in the future ? Probable if this roster makes some changes. On this current iteration ? Hell no.

There's a huge difference in how both players score inside and you know it lol. I never said anything about efficiency. That's all Wagner has on Barnes right now which is expected for a guy who came in with a more refined offensive game lol.

Are we arguing in a situation where the world ends today? There's a lot of bad players today who would have looked better than players who became elite with no growth lol. In fact Gallianri probably looked more elite than some legit stars in his second year lol.

[Tha Cynic]

Hard to take this seriously when he can't even be a competent 3rd option on a play in team.

Your entire analysis is based on if a player today looks like a 3 level scorer or not lol. If they do then you rate them higher than anyone else. In fact you don't even look at where a player has shown they can score from multiple areas and don't factor growth into it lol. Can't take these closed minded views seriously either.

You have to in today's NBA.

Scottie is not a good enough athlete to get by on being a 1 or 2 level scorer.

It's not like Scottie's some defensive stalwart to make up for it either, he's a defensive liability most times but that's mainly due to Nurse forcing him to guard perimeter players instead of utilizing him as a help defender.

Are you saying that Barnes has not shown an ability to score at 3 levels lol?

[HumbleRen]

Cmon bro you are overrating Wagner lol

Only thing he’s better than Scottie at right now is scoring, nothing else. So yes, with this current raptors team Wagner would be a better fit because of his shooting/scoring, but that team would still be a first rd exit

Wagner has not shown the same ability to be an overall threat- rebounding, playmaking, defense.. his ceiling is not close to Scottie’s at all.

Wagner’s ceiling imo is somewhere between Gallinari and Glen rice, on the high end. Big forward who is a great scorer, maybe 1-2x all star, not a bad player at all. But Scottie’s ceiling is higher than that

Hard to take this seriously when he can't even be a competent 3rd option on a play in team.

??? Weird thing to say

Is he a 3rd option? Earlier u said 5th? Which one is it?? This is why we need to move on from Fred and siakam so we can see what we really have in Barnes. I’ve seen enough to be a believer tho. This current team just has too many chemistry issues and power struggles.

Btw Wagner is the 2nd option on a team worse than the raps

I was trying to be nice to Scottie lol. Sounds way more meaner saying he's the 5th option then him being the 3rd option.

[HumbleRen]

Your entire analysis is based on if a player today looks like a 3 level scorer or not lol. If they do then you rate them higher than anyone else. In fact you don't even look at where a player has shown they can score from multiple areas and don't factor growth into it lol. Can't take these closed minded views seriously either.

You have to in today's NBA.

Scottie is not a good enough athlete to get by on being a 1 or 2 level scorer.

It's not like Scottie's some defensive stalwart to make up for it either, he's a defensive liability most times but that's mainly due to Nurse forcing him to guard perimeter players instead of utilizing him as a help defender.

Are you saying that Barnes has not shown an ability to score at 3 levels lol?

Correct.

[Tha Cynic]

You have to in today's NBA.

Scottie is not a good enough athlete to get by on being a 1 or 2 level scorer.

It's not like Scottie's some defensive stalwart to make up for it either, he's a defensive liability most times but that's mainly due to Nurse forcing him to guard perimeter players instead of utilizing him as a help defender.

Personally, I find it pretty impressive what Barnes has done on a team with the worst shooters in the league lol. But, to each their own. I'll trust the development.

Are you saying that Barnes has not shown an ability to score at 3 levels lol?

Correct.

And yet he has lol. Just not efficiently. By this logic Banchero is not a 3 level scorer either.

Personally, I find it impressive what Barnes has accomplished on a team with the worst shooters in the league as a raw player himself. I'll trust the development. To each their own.