Official Brandon Ingram Thread

[YogurtProducer]

[
First round and playoff exit in the first round with a 21 year old core piece is different than being a lottery bound team.

First of all, thats putting a lot of stock into Jonas Valacnciunas as a "core" piece. By the time we were a truly competitive team in 2019 he was what... our 8th or 9th best player?

Also, you keep saying "lottery bound team" like its a foregone conclusion that a team you have never seen play is capped as a lottery team. Do you think IQ/RJ/Ingram/Barnes/Poeltl + 2025 1st, Walter, Dick, etc. is truly a lottery bound team?

The young assets are pretty bad basketball players.

Dick, Walter, Shead, Barnes, 2025 1st are bad basketball players? Are we calling 25 year old IQ old? Like what?

The incoming pick is going to be in the 5-8 range because we turned into buyers instead of sellers at the deadline. I understand the logic but we're being wishy washy with our direction and there are contract implications that are affecting the direction we're taking as a franchise.

What did we buy? From my math we:

Sold - Davion, Brown, Olynyk
Bought - Ingram (who isn't going to play a single minute, and therefore won't help our W/L record at all

Barnes, IQ, Barrett, Ingram, Poeltl, etc have been in the league for several years. Using your broken logic we should throw together a bunch of average players and hope they turn into something great because we've "never seen them together before". Obviously we can project where they will be.

Considering that the only stretch of health this team saw all year had this board in meltdown mode due to a 8-2 run (before we got Ingram), IDK how you can possibly project ****. we have yet to see IQ even play with this core, let alone Ingram, let alone whatever we get from the draft.

But congrats on being able to conclude on that. We have two players who have made an all-star game in Ingram and Barnes, possibly a 3rd in our 2025 draft pick, and TBH it isn't out of the realm of possibilities for Quickley to get (and to a lesser extent, RJ or Dick).

Our first two recent draft picks are some of the worst players in the league at the moment. Maybe they develop into something more but the likely scenario is that they are bench players that don't impact winning a whole lot.

Holy **** hyperbole. You want to tank but less than 24 months into either of their careers they are "two of worst players in the league". My god man.

[YogurtProducer]

So again, this all boils down to a little subset of you that disagree with my opinion, and then deem it dishonest because it doesn't align with yours. But then I'm the one being called dishonest.

I think it boils down to you complaining about everything, all the time, endlessly and people getting frustrated and a little exhausted by it...

Again, group of you aren't happy someone has a differing opinion. In other news, water is wet.

Man, the fact you won't look in the mirror and you think this pushback on you is simply due to your opinion is wild.

There are tons of posters on here who have similar opinions to yours. Yet it is only really you and a couple others that get called out.

The sooner you realize its your tone and attitude and has ZERO to do with the opinions you hold, the better for you. I really hope this is an online thing for you and not something that you bring into your real life interactions because... wow.

[dohboy_24]

LOL... another thread derailed into off-topic comments and poster bashing with the same forum mod participating in the discourse rather than upholding their duties as a moderator.

[Thaddy]

[
First round and playoff exit in the first round with a 21 year old core piece is different than being a lottery bound team.

First of all, thats putting a lot of stock into Jonas Valacnciunas as a "core" piece. By the time we were a truly competitive team in 2019 he was what... our 8th or 9th best player?

Also, you keep saying "lottery bound team" like its a foregone conclusion that a team you have never seen play is capped as a lottery team. Do you think IQ/RJ/Ingram/Barnes/Poeltl + 2025 1st, Walter, Dick, etc. is truly a lottery bound team?

The young assets are pretty bad basketball players.

Dick, Walter, Shead, Barnes, 2025 1st are bad basketball players? Are we calling 25 year old IQ old? Like what?

The incoming pick is going to be in the 5-8 range because we turned into buyers instead of sellers at the deadline. I understand the logic but we're being wishy washy with our direction and there are contract implications that are affecting the direction we're taking as a franchise.

What did we buy? From my math we:

Sold - Davion, Brown, Olynyk
Bought - Ingram (who isn't going to play a single minute, and therefore won't help our W/L record at all

Barnes, IQ, Barrett, Ingram, Poeltl, etc have been in the league for several years. Using your broken logic we should throw together a bunch of average players and hope they turn into something great because we've "never seen them together before". Obviously we can project where they will be.

Considering that the only stretch of health this team saw all year had this board in meltdown mode due to a 8-2 run (before we got Ingram), IDK how you can possibly project ****. we have yet to see IQ even play with this core, let alone Ingram, let alone whatever we get from the draft.

But congrats on being able to conclude on that. We have two players who have made an all-star game in Ingram and Barnes, possibly a 3rd in our 2025 draft pick, and TBH it isn't out of the realm of possibilities for Quickley to get (and to a lesser extent, RJ or Dick).

Our first two recent draft picks are some of the worst players in the league at the moment. Maybe they develop into something more but the likely scenario is that they are bench players that don't impact winning a whole lot.

Holy **** hyperbole. You want to tank but less than 24 months into either of their careers they are "two of worst players in the league". My god man.

JV was drafted as a core piece he was the 5th pick.

Yeah Ingram and a first doesn't raise the ceiling much. Especially if we aren't in the top 5 of the draft. We're going to be a fringe playoff team if everything works out.


Dick, Walter, Shead, and Mogbo aren't good players this season. Go look at their stats. Gradey hasn't improved much he's an inefficient scorer with low league value. IQ isn't old but he's a veteran that's been in the league a long time.

We bought Ingram, we didn't sell for flexibility.

RJ and Dick won't be all stars in their careers. They suck compared to similar age players. The other vets like Barnes, Ingram, IQ and Barrett have been in the league for many years. They are close to, if not already, finished products.

Dick, Walter, Shead and Mogbo are not good players right now. They have terrible numbers if you look at their advanced stats. Go to crafted NBA stats website and look yourself.

[YogurtProducer]

If we can add a top 8 pick and also add a healthy Ingram it'll be great. But the chance of us getting screwed in a similar manner OPJ screwed us is concerning. Is Ingram going to train harder than ever now that he's making 40M a year, which is the highest he's ever earned? Maybe but the most likely scenario is that he does what he's always done in his career.

IDK why you keep bringing up OPJ.

OPJ played the following games before signing here:

2020 - 14 games
2021 - 28 games
2022 - 63 games
2023 - 8 games (for us)

Ingram has played:

2020 - 62 games
2021 - 61 games
2022 - 55 games
2023 - 45 games
2024 - 64 games

Completely different situations. Ingram keeps missing a ton of games with weird little one off injuries. How much of that is the garbage Pelicans medical staff? How much of that is sitting out longer than needed in lost seasons?

That is up in the air because who knows the truth (outside Ingram).

Just for fun tho... Anunoby:

2020 - 69 games
2021 - 43 games
2022 - 48 games
2023 - 67 games
2024 - 50 games

[Thaddy]

If we can add a top 8 pick and also add a healthy Ingram it'll be great. But the chance of us getting screwed in a similar manner OPJ screwed us is concerning. Is Ingram going to train harder than ever now that he's making 40M a year, which is the highest he's ever earned? Maybe but the most likely scenario is that he does what he's always done in his career.

IDK why you keep bringing up OPJ.

OPJ played the following games before signing here:

2020 - 14 games
2021 - 28 games
2022 - 63 games
2023 - 8 games (for us)

Ingram has played:

2020 - 62 games
2021 - 61 games
2022 - 55 games
2023 - 45 games
2024 - 64 games

Completely different situations. Ingram keeps missing a ton of games with weird little one off injuries. How much of that is the garbage Pelicans medical staff? How much of that is sitting out longer than needed in lost seasons?

That is up in the air because who knows the truth (outside Ingram).

Just for fun tho... Anunoby:

2020 - 69 games
2021 - 43 games
2022 - 48 games
2023 - 67 games
2024 - 50 games

Similar isn't the same.

If Ingram plays 60 games a year it's a bad deal. We don't have the depth and talent to let him sit out.

[YogurtProducer]

[
First round and playoff exit in the first round with a 21 year old core piece is different than being a lottery bound team.

First of all, thats putting a lot of stock into Jonas Valacnciunas as a "core" piece. By the time we were a truly competitive team in 2019 he was what... our 8th or 9th best player?

Also, you keep saying "lottery bound team" like its a foregone conclusion that a team you have never seen play is capped as a lottery team. Do you think IQ/RJ/Ingram/Barnes/Poeltl + 2025 1st, Walter, Dick, etc. is truly a lottery bound team?

The young assets are pretty bad basketball players.

Dick, Walter, Shead, Barnes, 2025 1st are bad basketball players? Are we calling 25 year old IQ old? Like what?

The incoming pick is going to be in the 5-8 range because we turned into buyers instead of sellers at the deadline. I understand the logic but we're being wishy washy with our direction and there are contract implications that are affecting the direction we're taking as a franchise.

What did we buy? From my math we:

Sold - Davion, Brown, Olynyk
Bought - Ingram (who isn't going to play a single minute, and therefore won't help our W/L record at all

Barnes, IQ, Barrett, Ingram, Poeltl, etc have been in the league for several years. Using your broken logic we should throw together a bunch of average players and hope they turn into something great because we've "never seen them together before". Obviously we can project where they will be.

Considering that the only stretch of health this team saw all year had this board in meltdown mode due to a 8-2 run (before we got Ingram), IDK how you can possibly project ****. we have yet to see IQ even play with this core, let alone Ingram, let alone whatever we get from the draft.

But congrats on being able to conclude on that. We have two players who have made an all-star game in Ingram and Barnes, possibly a 3rd in our 2025 draft pick, and TBH it isn't out of the realm of possibilities for Quickley to get (and to a lesser extent, RJ or Dick).

Our first two recent draft picks are some of the worst players in the league at the moment. Maybe they develop into something more but the likely scenario is that they are bench players that don't impact winning a whole lot.

Holy **** hyperbole. You want to tank but less than 24 months into either of their careers they are "two of worst players in the league". My god man.

JV was drafted as a core piece he was the 5th pick.

Yeah Ingram and a first doesn't raise the ceiling much. Especially if we aren't in the top 5 of the draft. We're going to be a fringe playoff team if everything works out.


Dick, Walter, Shead, and Mogbo aren't good players this season. Go look at their stats. Gradey hasn't improved much he's an inefficient scorer with low league value. IQ isn't old but he's a veteran that's been in the league a long time.

We bought Ingram, we didn't sell for flexibility.

RJ and Dick won't be all stars in their careers. They suck compared to similar age players. The other vets like Barnes, Ingram, IQ and Barrett have been in the league for many years. They are close to, if not already, finished products.

Dick, Walter, Shead and Mogbo are not good players right now. They have terrible numbers if you look at their advanced stats. Go to crafted NBA stats website and look yourself.

So the TLDR is that you put more stock into JV because he was the 5th pick than IQ who is superior because he is a bit older and was a late 1st?

JV peaked as a platoon center. If he was slotted onto our team today he would be our backup C, and maybe our 5th most valuable piece behind IQ/RJ/Barnes/Ingram and probably actually 6th behind the 2025 1st. Yet he was top 3 on those Raptors teams.

RJ and Dick suck compared to similar aged players?

- RJ is 4th in PPG amongst 24 year olds. He is 3rd in APG amongst 24 year olds.

- Dick is 4th in PPG amongst 21 year olds.

I know those are not end all be all stats and there is a LOT more to a player, but your low effort "they suck" doesn't deserve much more rebuttal than that.

This is just a tiresome conversation. You find ways to **** on every single player and asset we currently have, and find ways to overhype everything else including Jonas **** Valanciunas who at 21 years old was pretty much the center version of Gradey Dick (who you hate).

Get a grip man.

[YogurtProducer]

If we can add a top 8 pick and also add a healthy Ingram it'll be great. But the chance of us getting screwed in a similar manner OPJ screwed us is concerning. Is Ingram going to train harder than ever now that he's making 40M a year, which is the highest he's ever earned? Maybe but the most likely scenario is that he does what he's always done in his career.

IDK why you keep bringing up OPJ.

OPJ played the following games before signing here:

2020 - 14 games
2021 - 28 games
2022 - 63 games
2023 - 8 games (for us)

Ingram has played:

2020 - 62 games
2021 - 61 games
2022 - 55 games
2023 - 45 games
2024 - 64 games

Completely different situations. Ingram keeps missing a ton of games with weird little one off injuries. How much of that is the garbage Pelicans medical staff? How much of that is sitting out longer than needed in lost seasons?

That is up in the air because who knows the truth (outside Ingram).

Just for fun tho... Anunoby:

2020 - 69 games
2021 - 43 games
2022 - 48 games
2023 - 67 games
2024 - 50 games

Similar isn't the same.

If Ingram plays 60 games a year it's a bad deal. We don't have the depth and talent to let him sit out.

Done with you today.

[Duffman100]

LOL... another thread derailed into off-topic comments and poster bashing with the same forum mod participating in the discourse rather than upholding their duties as a moderator.

By all means, apply to be a moderator and help the cause.

[Pointgod]

In that same vein that poster should be honest about his feelings instead of mindlessly denigrating the player. Cause it just reflects poorly on him at the moment end of the day

What am I being dishonest about exactly?

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

This works both ways. Any suggestion of tanking being the best way to acquire a superstar is immediately met with dismissal from the same group of posters and complaints that it will ruin the team. These posters rarely engage on actual evidence and instead base their arguments on the fact that they don’t want to sit through a tank so they dismiss a legitimately effective way to build a team.

[Duffman100]

What am I being dishonest about exactly?

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

This works both ways. Any suggestion of tanking being the best way to acquire a superstar is immediately met with dismissal from the same group of posters and complaints that it will ruin the team. These posters rarely engage on actual evidence and instead base their arguments on the fact that they don’t want to sit through a tank so they dismiss a legitimately effective way to build a team.

Huh? There are myriads of conversations with examples of it not working and it working ad nauseum.

In fact, many of the posters who have disagreed with tanking are full on supporting the tank this season.

[pingpongrac]

So again, this all boils down to a little subset of you that disagree with my opinion, and then deem it dishonest because it doesn't align with yours. But then I'm the one being called dishonest.

I think it boils down to you complaining about everything, all the time, endlessly and people getting frustrated and a little exhausted by it...

Again, group of you aren't happy someone has a differing opinion. In other news, water is wet.

It’s not just a “differing opinion” that’s the problem. There are plenty of posters on this board that voice their opinion with similar stances as you, but your takes gravitate towards the extreme (i.e. worst-case scenario) more often than not and you continuously spread your negativity throughout the forum. I mean just look at the post counts for the three Ingram-related threads on the first page of this forum. You are #1 or #2 in all of them trying to tell everyone else that your opinion is based in reality while the ~90% of people that think it’s a good deal are wrong and they’re using made up stats to cope.

[Tripod]

"They suck compared to similar age players"

RJ is 4th in scoring for 24 year olds. IQ 9th for 25.

[DreamTeam09]

"They suck compared to similar age players"

RJ is 4th in scoring for 24 year olds. IQ 9th for 25.

Where does Barnes rank compared to his class and the classes after his ?

[YogurtProducer]

What am I being dishonest about exactly?

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

This works both ways. Any suggestion of tanking being the best way to acquire a superstar is immediately met with dismissal from the same group of posters and complaints that it will ruin the team. These posters rarely engage on actual evidence and instead base their arguments on the fact that they don’t want to sit through a tank so they dismiss a legitimately effective way to build a team.

Not really.

there are very few people who are blanket against tanking in all instances. There is mostly push back on the posters who act like tanking is the ONLY way to accomplish anything, and also because they come into every **** thread and blast their narratives that have nothing to do with anything. We are currently in a Brandon Ingram thread fighting about tanking because some posters cant help but cry we didn't blow up the entire roster at the deadline or the off-season.

And that is not try that posters do not engage on actual evidence. There is ample evidence that shows tanking rarely, if ever, is an effective form of team building. That part is often glossed over when these discussions take place. That being said, no form of team building works on a regular basis because building NBA contenders is hard (and a lot more "luck" based than we like to admit)

[Tripod]

"They suck compared to similar age players"

RJ is 4th in scoring for 24 year olds. IQ 9th for 25.

Where does Barnes rank compared to his class and the classes after his ?

Note..RJ and IQ I did age, not draft class. Fwiw, RJ is 3rd in scoring from his draft class.

Barnes is 6th in PPG from his draft this year...8th for 23 year olds

[Scase]

I think it boils down to you complaining about everything, all the time, endlessly and people getting frustrated and a little exhausted by it...

Again, group of you aren't happy someone has a differing opinion. In other news, water is wet.

It’s not just a “differing opinion” that’s the problem. There are plenty of posters on this board that voice their opinion with similar stances as you, but your takes gravitate towards the extreme (i.e. worst-case scenario) more often than not and you continuously spread your negativity throughout the forum. I mean just look at the post counts for the three Ingram-related threads on the first page of this forum. You are #1 or #2 in all of them trying to tell everyone else that your opinion is based in reality while the ~90% of people that think it’s a good deal are wrong and they’re using made up stats to cope.

So my posting frequency is an issue, yet I'm not just speaking into the ether. People are quoting me and responding to me directly, should I just ignore them to protect your sensibilities?

The last 2+ pages have been the same group of 4-5 posters dog piling on me as they do in every other thread where they don't like the opinion I share.

My takes gravitate towards the "I think this is going to fail, and here is why", if you think that is the extreme then perhaps provide counters that aren't "this is definitely going to work", cause that's all I ever see in response.

Ingram is injured and will probably continue to be so -> No we have a great medical staff it's all because NOP is cursed.
Jak trade was bad and won't work out -> Jak is a top 10 centre and championship calibre.
This team is likely a 1st/2nd round exit ceiling -> This is all asset building we have tons of young talent who have star potential and all we need is a trade for a super star when we're ready.

Like I'm not out here saying things like it's the worst trade in the franchise's history, hell I don't even think the trade itself is bad, I am not a fan of the timing of it. But any time you say anything that isn't glazing every move this team makes, you get branded as negative, despite the age of the average poster here, there seems to be a real difficult grasp that realism =/= negativity.

I prefer to be grounded in my approach, if people want to be overly optimistic that's their prerogative, but it doesn't make them immune from criticism. Lord knows it doesn't stop them from personally attacking me when I don't agree. There are plenty of people here that IMO have absurdly positive takes on things, but I'm not following them around the forums constantly commenting on all their stuff acting like they stole my GF.

Don't like my posts, put me on ignore, that's what I do. That's what the feature is for, I have a handful of people on ignore because I'm not a fan of their content. Use the tools at your disposal.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

What am I being dishonest about exactly?

I would assume that any move or acquisition that isn't directly related to tanking, you find time to complain about endlessly or devalue the move as "doesn't move the needle".

This works both ways. Any suggestion of tanking being the best way to acquire a superstar is immediately met with dismissal from the same group of posters and complaints that it will ruin the team. These posters rarely engage on actual evidence and instead base their arguments on the fact that they don’t want to sit through a tank so they dismiss a legitimately effective way to build a team.

there is no actual evidence that tanking helps win a championship. the only exception to this is the spurs tanking after robinson was injured to get tim duncan i.e. a talented played injured helped the tank and secure a star(sound familiar?)
the most ambitious project to tank your way to a championship is the process which so far has been an abject failure. embiid very well might be traded this offseason.
most posters are on board the tank this year because it will help with talent acquisition. there should be no expectations of drafting a superstar as a result of this tank. in the same vein, trading for ingram also helps with talent acquisition.
hope that helps clarify things a bit

[AkelaLoneWolf]

LOL... another thread derailed into off-topic comments and poster bashing with the same forum mod participating in the discourse rather than upholding their duties as a moderator.

oh the humanity

[AkelaLoneWolf]

If we can add a top 8 pick and also add a healthy Ingram it'll be great. But the chance of us getting screwed in a similar manner OPJ screwed us is concerning. Is Ingram going to train harder than ever now that he's making 40M a year, which is the highest he's ever earned? Maybe but the most likely scenario is that he does what he's always done in his career.

IDK why you keep bringing up OPJ.

OPJ played the following games before signing here:

2020 - 14 games
2021 - 28 games
2022 - 63 games
2023 - 8 games (for us)

Ingram has played:

2020 - 62 games
2021 - 61 games
2022 - 55 games
2023 - 45 games
2024 - 64 games

Completely different situations. Ingram keeps missing a ton of games with weird little one off injuries. How much of that is the garbage Pelicans medical staff? How much of that is sitting out longer than needed in lost seasons?

That is up in the air because who knows the truth (outside Ingram).

Just for fun tho... Anunoby:

2020 - 69 games
2021 - 43 games
2022 - 48 games
2023 - 67 games
2024 - 50 games

Similar isn't the same.

If Ingram plays 60 games a year it's a bad deal. We don't have the depth and talent to let him sit out.

health is a risk. but if he were a healthy player, he'd be a max player and we would never land him for a middling FRP. There is no free lunch. No one is giving us Luka for pennies.