Official Scottie Barnes Thread

[10giz]

Mobley has been fantastic. Especially for a rookie big who take longer to develop, he's been the only guy out of the top 3 to match his college hype. He's 2nd on ROY race

Now Scottie albeit a different player, provides everything a little better and is head and shoulders the rest of his draft class.

I definitely agree Mobley has been great but I'm just curious what you find fantastic.

He's made a lot of good defensive plays but I've seen all of them and literally the majority are terrible plays by the opposition or him just blocking someone under the rim using good verticality. It's great, but he's not going around creating these situations for the most part.

Most of these situations come to him and he's clearly being used as a hunter help defender.

Watch his defensive plays the moment the ball handler starts entering the arc his eyes focus primarily on the ball and he's prone to leaving his man wide open. Clearly this is by design but a disciplined team should punish that.

[PD28]

We'll get a preview of Mobley vs Barnes tonight. Hopefully Barnes destroys this matchup.

Scottie just needs to make the face in your picture and its a wrap for Mobley

[10giz]

And to whoever said Bosh sucked his rookie year. I’m assuming you were a fan then. Here’s a reminder of what he did in his 10th game against one of the best defences in the league and a dude named Yao Ming.

https://youtu.be/3_J9ysFRbXs


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Danny1616]

And to whoever said Bosh sucked his rookie year. I’m assuming you were a fan then. Here’s a reminder of what he did in his 10th game against one of the best defences in the league and a dude named Yao Ming.

https://youtu.be/3_J9ysFRbXs


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Bosh was excellent is his rookie season and to give Bosh credit he had to play center for most of the season as Loren Woods was atrocious.

Bosh was extremely skinny as a rookie and had to go up against prime Shaq, Yao, Ben Wallace, Brand, Webber, Duncan etc. and he was able to hold his own for the most part despite playing out of his natural power forward position at the time.

[Bruin]

FG % for the Top 5 picks so far

Cade 17.5%
Green 35.7%
Mobley 49.0%
Scottie 55.1%
Suggs 30.5%

im assuming thats including greens 3 -14 night tonight as well?

Yep. It was around 36.7 or so prior to that game

[WuTang_CMB]

Mobley has been fantastic. Especially for a rookie big who take longer to develop, he's been the only guy out of the top 3 to match his college hype. He's 2nd on ROY race

Now Scottie albeit a different player, provides everything a little better and is head and shoulders the rest of his draft class.

I definitely agree Mobley has been great but I'm just curious what you find fantastic.

He's made a lot of good defensive plays but I've seen all of them and literally the majority are terrible plays by the opposition or him just blocking someone under the rim using good verticality. It's great, but he's not going around creating these situations for the most part.

Most of these situations come to him and he's clearly being used as a hunter help defender.

Watch his defensive plays the moment the ball handler starts entering the arc his eyes focus primarily on the ball and he's prone to leaving his man wide open. Clearly this is by design but a disciplined team should punish that.

He's a rookie big who's got both real positive stats and analytics for his first 9 games in the NBA. Defensively his awareness/positioning and length gives him a real advantage over others. Just knows how to play and has been very impressive thus far. I think you're just knit picking at little things that don't really make any sense because you lost an argument and can't admit you're wrong.

[10giz]

Mobley has been fantastic. Especially for a rookie big who take longer to develop, he's been the only guy out of the top 3 to match his college hype. He's 2nd on ROY race

Now Scottie albeit a different player, provides everything a little better and is head and shoulders the rest of his draft class.

I definitely agree Mobley has been great but I'm just curious what you find fantastic.

He's made a lot of good defensive plays but I've seen all of them and literally the majority are terrible plays by the opposition or him just blocking someone under the rim using good verticality. It's great, but he's not going around creating these situations for the most part.

Most of these situations come to him and he's clearly being used as a hunter help defender.

Watch his defensive plays the moment the ball handler starts entering the arc his eyes focus primarily on the ball and he's prone to leaving his man wide open. Clearly this is by design but a disciplined team should punish that.

He's a rookie big who's got both real positive stats and analytics for his first 9 games in the NBA. Defensively his awareness/positioning and length gives him a real advantage over others. Just knows how to play and has been very impressive thus far. I think you're just knit picking at little things that don't really make any sense because you lost an argument and can't admit you're wrong.

Wrong about what? I agree he's been good, impressive, great IQ, great instincts. I have said multiple times he's an awesome prospect and I've been a fan of his.

I've lost no argument yet because not a single person has shown me any elite defence nor any generational elements of his game.

Positive stats and analytics don't make someone an all-time defender.

I don't care if a player gets 5 blocks a game how those blocks come and in what context are far more important to me.

Contesting Giannis on drives successfully is infinitely more impressive than players half your size taking dumb attempts at the rim that you can erase with minimal effort.

[Tha Cynic]

Mobley has no offense right now. His value is more on the defensive side. He is already an elite defender. You need both defenders and offensive players to win. While Barnes has done well up to this point, his offense is also a work in progress. He's not exactly great at it.

I think if Masai had the #2 pick he would have selected Mobley and with good reason. But it looks like Barnes' work ethic and personality will push his potential even higher than first expected.

[PD28]

Mobley has no offense right now. His value is more on the defensive side. He is already an elite defender. You need both defenders and offensive players to win.

I think if Masai had the #2 pick he would have selected Mobley and with good reason. But it looks like Barnes' work ethic and personality will push his potential even higher than first expected.

Mobley is looking really good because he's getting lobs, post entry passes etc. I rarely see him make a bucket on his own which inflates his efficiency offensively. Barnes on the other hand makes a lot of unassisted baskets.

[10giz]

Mobley has no offense right now. His value is more on the defensive side. He is already an elite defender. You need both defenders and offensive players to win. While Barnes has done well up to this point, his offense is also a work in progress. He's not exactly great at it.

I think if Masai had the #2 pick he would have selected Mobley and with good reason. But it looks like Barnes' work ethic and personality will push his potential even higher than first expected.

So, he's an elite defender? You'd put him along with Gobert? Bam? OG? Draymond? Giannis? Simmons?

Or is he more elite defender like Turner who blocks almost three times more and actually plays the 5 unlike Mobley who play 50% of his minutes at the 3 spot?

The fact you think some scrawny kid who can't even push around small forward is an elite defender means you just don't really have an appreciation or understating of the physicality and intense effort defence requires. You haven't done it yourself so how could you know?

Elite defenders are tasked with elite responsibilities. There's a reason he's being used in the way that he is. The fact that you're a Raptor fan who's watched the assignments OG has had to take on, guarding the best opposing perimeter player his rookie year, then starting to guard the best opposing player the following year, leading up to know, and you think Mobley hunting blocks is elite. Unfortunate.

He's a very good defender. His ability to stay vertical, avoid fouls, move with drives are very good. His length is good for his size not great. His reading the floor and timing his movements is very good. His propensity to keep his arms in the air while in motion to avoid fouling while keeping with the drive is great.

When he gets taken off the dribble he is incredibly unbalanced due to his high centre of gravity but he's able to adjust and recover but against a bigger or stronger opponent that won't work.

I'm even willing to call him a GREAT defender simply out of respect for his love for the craft but the fact that people are literally arguing to the death about the fact that he's not elite is a joke I'm sorry. I've never before seen people so adamant to defend the generational label of a player. People actually calling him KG is laughable. How many of those people even watched KG in 1995?

[CanadaB-Ball]

I'm sorry if you think I'm stupid but I've yet to hear an actual retort.

You posted three sets of raw stats with no context whatsoever.

So me saying he's not a generational prospect like being touted is me downplaying him?

Again, show me proof.

How do you retort an opinion? There was nothing objective in your statement.

"I think Mobley looks bad, irrespective of what the stats say"

How does one respond to that?

I personally think he looks good. Now we're at a stalemate because we're both arguing opinions.

That's a good point, I should've been more specific. I would be happy to.

But it's hard to prove his inferior athletically by far to other prospects if I get chastised for offering to watch film.

I also think he looks good. Very good.

What I was trying to say was compared to the hype he's receiving as a generational prospect akin to KG and AD, that is where I have an issue.

This is a fair statement.

I reacted harshly to what I viewed as an ornery post that was far too dismissive of Mobley’s talent, but I respect the clarity your last couple posts provided.

I happen to believe that Mobley’s defensive impact will be generational, but I fully understand and respect the reservations to his offensive impact (both current and future) and you’ve supported your opinion well.

I do think Mobley’s shooting will develop, and that his vision and passing ability will open up the high post for him, but I do understand the concerns. I also don’t believe he’ll ever be a number one option in the ilk of Davis or Garnett.

[10giz]

How do you retort an opinion? There was nothing objective in your statement.

"I think Mobley looks bad, irrespective of what the stats say"

How does one respond to that?

I personally think he looks good. Now we're at a stalemate because we're both arguing opinions.

That's a good point, I should've been more specific. I would be happy to.

But it's hard to prove his inferior athletically by far to other prospects if I get chastised for offering to watch film.

I also think he looks good. Very good.

What I was trying to say was compared to the hype he's receiving as a generational prospect akin to KG and AD, that is where I have an issue.

This is a fair statement.

I reacted harshly to what I viewed as an ornery post that was far too dismissive of Mobley’s talent, but I respect the clarity your last couple posts provided.

I happen to believe that Mobley’s defensive impact will be generational, but I fully understand and respect the reservations to his offensive impact (both current and future) and you’ve supported your opinion well.

I do think Mobley’s shooting will develop, and that his vision and passing ability will open up the high post for him, but I do understand the concerns. I also don’t believe he’ll ever be a number one option in the ilk of Davis or Garnett.

That';s the thing man. I'm a lover of defence more than anyone.

KG was my first favourite player. My dad got me illegal DirecTV in the late 90s just so I could watch every Twolves game.

OG is my favourite player in the league because I don't think there's a single player in the league that treats defence with more reverence.

It's frustrating because people think me challenging the idea that he could be is me wishing he won't. I have 6 broken noses playing defence that proves I'd prefer more good D in the league. I have a permanently swollen, arthritic ankle from 20 years of jumping to contest shots at the rim. And these **** think I'd just tear down a great defender and what seems like an excellent kid with a good character because...I'm a homer who's scared to lose an argument? Lol.

I hope people can imagine the just because I'm pushing back against the idea does not mean I am denying its possibility or even potential likelihood to happen. I'm trying to legitimately dig into what his current elite abilities and traits are other than the ones I've already admitted because when I watch the film, I see a very good defender who is far behind many other greats physically at this age and has a body type that may not be conducive to what he can do now in the future.

I appreciate your post though man.

[Scott Hall]

Read on Twitter

[WuTang_CMB]

2. Evan Mobley

The Sporting News' Micah Adams wrote about how Mobley's start stacks up against Hall of Famers like Kevin Garnett and current stars like Anthony Davis.

It's a small sample size, but Mobley has been that good. The Cavs' big man is averaging 13.3 points, 8.2 rebounds, 1.1 steals and 1.3 blocks per game while shooting an efficient 49.0 percent from the field.

According to Basketball-Reference's play-by-play data, Mobley has played 46.0 percent of his minutes at small forward this season.

For a player who's just a 20-year-old rookie, trying to figure out the game and on top of that may be playing out of position - he's had an impressive start and may in the near future find himself on the top of this ladder.

1. Scottie Barnes

The Raptors got it right. Remember when there was a debate about whether or not the Raptors should draft Barnes or Jalen Suggs with the No. 4 pick? It's early and I don't want to write Suggs off, but I think Toronto is happy with their selection.

Barnes is leading all rookies in scoring averaging 18.1 points, 8.9 rebounds and 2.0 assists per game.

If you stack up Barnes' first seven games next to that of former Raptors like Vince Carter, Chris Bosh and DeMar DeRozan in their rookie years it paints a pretty picture.

Rk Player Season Age MP FG% 3P% TRB AST STL BLK PTS
1 Scottie Barnes 2021-22 20 34.9 55.1 22.2 8.9 2.0 0.7 0.6 18.1
2 Chris Bosh 2003-04 19 33.5 45.9 35.7 7.4 1.0 0.8 1.4 11.5
3 Vince Carter 1998-99 22 35.2 45.0 28.8 5.7 3.0 1.1 1.5 18.3
4 DeMar DeRozan 2009-10 20 21.6 49.8 25.0 2.9 0.7 0.6 0.2 8.6

Barnes will have to sustain the production he's currently giving Toronto to be in the same class as Carter, but the start is promising.

He's been the best rookie to this point in the season, and there's truly no debating it.

[Indeed]

Who Barnes is compared to:
https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2021/11/05/scottie-barnes-basketball-study-guide/

[WuTang_CMB]

I definitely agree Mobley has been great but I'm just curious what you find fantastic.

He's made a lot of good defensive plays but I've seen all of them and literally the majority are terrible plays by the opposition or him just blocking someone under the rim using good verticality. It's great, but he's not going around creating these situations for the most part.

Most of these situations come to him and he's clearly being used as a hunter help defender.

Watch his defensive plays the moment the ball handler starts entering the arc his eyes focus primarily on the ball and he's prone to leaving his man wide open. Clearly this is by design but a disciplined team should punish that.

He's a rookie big who's got both real positive stats and analytics for his first 9 games in the NBA. Defensively his awareness/positioning and length gives him a real advantage over others. Just knows how to play and has been very impressive thus far. I think you're just knit picking at little things that don't really make any sense because you lost an argument and can't admit you're wrong.

Wrong about what? I agree he's been good, impressive, great IQ, great instincts. I have said multiple times he's an awesome prospect and I've been a fan of his.

I've lost no argument yet because not a single person has shown me any elite defence nor any generational elements of his game.

Positive stats and analytics don't make someone an all-time defender.

I don't care if a player gets 5 blocks a game how those blocks come and in what context are far more important to me.

Contesting Giannis on drives successfully is infinitely more impressive than players half your size taking dumb attempts at the rim that you can erase with minimal effort.

You arent making sense. You are admitting he's been great and agreeing with all I've said, yet have an issue calling his first 9 games fantastic? lol.

[Danny1616]

Who Barnes is compared to:
https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2021/11/05/scottie-barnes-basketball-study-guide/

Article is pretty outdated.

I would have agreed with it before the season started, but Barnes has shown that he has far more potential to become a great offensive scorer then what most of us realized.

Draymond Green had one season where he averaged over 11ppg and it was 14ppg.

Lamar Odom never averaged over 17ppg.

Andrei Kirilenko never averaged over 16ppg.

Barnes as a rookie is already exceeding what some of those guys did during the peak years of their career in terms of offensive production. Obviously it's a small sample size, but his offensive ceiling seems much higher. He has a very soft touch around the basket, he's an excellent finisher in transition, has a few hook shots in his arsenal, and already has shown that he's a pretty good mid-range shooter.

He has some Green and Odom in his game, but he also has some Magic/Lebron to his game also. Maybe he will become something in between. Who knows.

[Indeed]

Who Barnes is compared to:
https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2021/11/05/scottie-barnes-basketball-study-guide/

Article is pretty outdated.

I would have agreed with it before the season started, but Barnes has shown that he has far more potential to become a great offensive scorer then what most of us realized.

Draymond Green had one season where he averaged over 11ppg and it was 14ppg.

Lamar Odom never averaged over 17ppg.

Andrei Kirilenko never averaged over 16ppg.

Barnes as a rookie is already exceeding what some of those guys did during the peak years of their career in terms of offensive production. Obviously it's a small sample size, but his offensive ceiling seems much higher. He has a very soft touch around the basket, he's an excellent finisher in transition, has a few hook shots in his arsenal, and already has shown that he's a pretty good mid-range shooter.

He has some Green and Odom in his game, but he also has some Magic/Lebron to his game also. Maybe he will become something in between. Who knows.

I think it is explaining how they draw the comparison between those players mentioned, not saying he is peak at those players.

I think he also has some Giannis ability as and between Magic or Leborn, but his game is more unique than anyone we compare to, so at the end, Barnes is Barnes.

[Scott Hall]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[10giz]

He's a rookie big who's got both real positive stats and analytics for his first 9 games in the NBA. Defensively his awareness/positioning and length gives him a real advantage over others. Just knows how to play and has been very impressive thus far. I think you're just knit picking at little things that don't really make any sense because you lost an argument and can't admit you're wrong.

Wrong about what? I agree he's been good, impressive, great IQ, great instincts. I have said multiple times he's an awesome prospect and I've been a fan of his.

I've lost no argument yet because not a single person has shown me any elite defence nor any generational elements of his game.

Positive stats and analytics don't make someone an all-time defender.

I don't care if a player gets 5 blocks a game how those blocks come and in what context are far more important to me.

Contesting Giannis on drives successfully is infinitely more impressive than players half your size taking dumb attempts at the rim that you can erase with minimal effort.

You arent making sense. You are admitting he's been great and agreeing with all I've said, yet have an issue calling his first 9 games fantastic? lol.

Should clarify again.

My only qualm has simply been - I do not yet see a player who is deemed elite/generational. He's being put in a great position to succeed by his coaches but no big is an elite defender off the jump.

This all started because I keep seeing articles calling him one of the best prospects ever, already elite defensively, comparable to AD and KG etc...I find that **** to be wack.

So I watched all his highlights try to find what people were hyping up,

I'll admit, I was looking for flaws but I do that with everyone. He's definitely been good and has had some great impacts but I think a lot of what I saw was also him taking advantage of having the freedom to operate freely while having the luxury of other bigs to assume other primary responsibilities.

Not that its his fault, but so so many of his defensive plays (great ones still) were a result of absolutely boneheaded drives and decisions by the offence. Now he had plenty of great plays too and I've been saying all the things I liked about him as well.

But as someone who's watched the beginning and whole careers of KG, Dirk, TD, Gasol, Brand, Bosh, D12, Cousins, Ben Wallace, etc...

I obviously feel it a bit ridiculous to say that about any rookie because its literally impossible to project not to mention Mobley is nowhere near ass revered and elite prospect. That's literally all.

I basically got painted as tearing him down and **** on him because I didn't see anything ELITE.