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2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#661 » by ArthurVandelay » Tue May 23, 2023 10:59 am

Kevin Willis wrote:
MoneyBall wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:Bilal seems to be the favorite among the board so far....Which baffles me a bit because i watched alot of tape on him and his ceiling is literally OG ....We would be drafting him to hope he becomes maybe OG....When we have OG on the team already lol...

We do not need a player that we hope becomes OG cause we have this type of player already and we are struggling to make the playoffs year after year....We need guard depth and an elite guard....Its so obvious...

We had FVV/GTJR playing basically all the mins at both guard spots with no real backups who are NBA ready players.....We have 0 guards on the team with any upside if GTJR & FVV are out the door this offseason.

I think it would be a really big miskate if we do not go after one of these guards with potential....We legit need a guard with potential on this team...George or Bufkin ...One of them should be the pick at 13 for us.

I'm not sold on Bilal either. He looks clumsy and uncoordinated. His first step doesn't look particularly explosive. He's paper thin which means when he adds weight it'll slow him down some. He's super young and with impeccable work ethic he can become a solid player, but he just looks like a huge project with a mid level ceiling.


- Bilal is around 6'7" - 200lbs. That is the same range as the following- Dick, Thompson twins, Max Lewis, Black, Rupert, GG
-
Coulibaly relies on hesitations to get to his spots and will pull out combo moves. With his improved skill and agile physical profile, he’s become a more difficult player to guard. He keeps his dribble alive when pressured by opposing players or when offensive sets are blown up. The handle is still loose, leading to turnovers when slashing through traffic.

-
It’s his first year as a pro, so we had to go slowly,” explains Collet. “Everything looks easy when you watch him play. He is graceful. Bilal has been blessed with superior athletic abilities. He learns fast, he is smart, he feels the game, you tell him something once and he gets it. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted.


https://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/bilal-coulibaly/

https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/scouting-boulogne-levallois-wing-bilal-coulibaly/

;ab_channel=LockedOnFantasyBasketball



These takes on Coulibaly are wild. Clumsy and uncoordinated is definitely not how I'd describe him. A game like OG? OG would be a tiger to Coulibaly's cheetah to use an animal kingdom comparison. Coulibaly's handle is already better than OG, but no question OG is the better player and Coulibaly would have a lot of work to make that even a comparison.

“Everything looks easy when you watch him play. He is graceful. Bilal has been blessed with superior athletic abilities. He learns fast, he is smart, he feels the game, you tell him something once and he gets it. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted.


That last sentence has been my thought on Coulibaly for months now. The draft is about projection. You don't want the best player right now. You want the best player in 4-5 years...unless you're a GM worried about your job, and those GMs rarely win.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#662 » by Clutch0z24 » Tue May 23, 2023 12:03 pm

ArthurVandelay wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
MoneyBall wrote:I'm not sold on Bilal either. He looks clumsy and uncoordinated. His first step doesn't look particularly explosive. He's paper thin which means when he adds weight it'll slow him down some. He's super young and with impeccable work ethic he can become a solid player, but he just looks like a huge project with a mid level ceiling.


- Bilal is around 6'7" - 200lbs. That is the same range as the following- Dick, Thompson twins, Max Lewis, Black, Rupert, GG
-
Coulibaly relies on hesitations to get to his spots and will pull out combo moves. With his improved skill and agile physical profile, he’s become a more difficult player to guard. He keeps his dribble alive when pressured by opposing players or when offensive sets are blown up. The handle is still loose, leading to turnovers when slashing through traffic.

-
It’s his first year as a pro, so we had to go slowly,” explains Collet. “Everything looks easy when you watch him play. He is graceful. Bilal has been blessed with superior athletic abilities. He learns fast, he is smart, he feels the game, you tell him something once and he gets it. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted.


https://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/bilal-coulibaly/

https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/scouting-boulogne-levallois-wing-bilal-coulibaly/

;ab_channel=LockedOnFantasyBasketball



These takes on Coulibaly are wild. Clumsy and uncoordinated is definitely not how I'd describe him. A game like OG? OG would be a tiger to Coulibaly's cheetah to use an animal kingdom comparison. Coulibaly's handle is already better than OG, but no question OG is the better player and Coulibaly would have a lot of work to make that even a comparison.

“Everything looks easy when you watch him play. He is graceful. Bilal has been blessed with superior athletic abilities. He learns fast, he is smart, he feels the game, you tell him something once and he gets it. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted.


That last sentence has been my thought on Coulibaly for months now. The draft is about projection. You don't want the best player right now. You want the best player in 4-5 years...unless you're a GM worried about your job, and those GMs rarely win.


Theres no guarantee Bilal will be the best player in 4-5 years though....Hes already one of the more Raw players in the 1st round at least and at 13 there are a few guys who look to have more skills than Bilal overall and id trust to become better players...

I get people look at the body and say wow he has a great body for the NBA but that doesn't always translate to talent on the court....a guy like Bufkin to me is miles ahead of Bilal in the development and overall game atm..

;ab_channel=LeagueHim

Hes my pick anyways...Imo he has Fox type potential...Already has a good midrange/3pt game and is the best layup rim finishers in all of this draft....Also is a good fiesty defender and has the size for a guard to be elite, Can also get his shot off the dribble...Just in terms of overall game right now hes mile ahead of Bilal imo.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#663 » by The Duke » Tue May 23, 2023 12:03 pm

I’m looking for shot creating guard over 3+D prospect
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#664 » by Rodrickle » Tue May 23, 2023 12:19 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
- Bilal is around 6'7" - 200lbs. That is the same range as the following- Dick, Thompson twins, Max Lewis, Black, Rupert, GG
-
-

https://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/bilal-coulibaly/

https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/scouting-boulogne-levallois-wing-bilal-coulibaly/

;ab_channel=LockedOnFantasyBasketball



These takes on Coulibaly are wild. Clumsy and uncoordinated is definitely not how I'd describe him. A game like OG? OG would be a tiger to Coulibaly's cheetah to use an animal kingdom comparison. Coulibaly's handle is already better than OG, but no question OG is the better player and Coulibaly would have a lot of work to make that even a comparison.

“Everything looks easy when you watch him play. He is graceful. Bilal has been blessed with superior athletic abilities. He learns fast, he is smart, he feels the game, you tell him something once and he gets it. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted.


That last sentence has been my thought on Coulibaly for months now. The draft is about projection. You don't want the best player right now. You want the best player in 4-5 years...unless you're a GM worried about your job, and those GMs rarely win.


Theres no guarantee Bilal will be the best player in 4-5 years though....Hes already one of the more Raw players in the 1st round at least and at 13 there are a few guys who look to have more skills than Bilal overall and id trust to become better players...

I get people look at the body and say wow he has a great body for the NBA but that doesn't always translate to talent on the court....a guy like Bufkin to me is miles ahead of Bilal in the development and overall game atm..

;ab_channel=LeagueHim

Hes my pick anyways...Imo he has Fox type potential...Already has a good midrange/3pt game and is the best layup rim finishers in all of this draft....Also is a good fiesty defender and has the size for a guard to be elite, Can also get his shot off the dribble...Just in terms of overall game right now hes mile ahead of Bilal imo.


I think he's gonna be a good player, but not sure about Fox potential. He's really not a great athlete although he's decent. You're right in terms of finishing though. He's elite in that regard. His improvement over the year was great and he seems like a good character guy from a good family. I would prefer Cason if he drops (Who I don't think showed his full athleticism at Kentucky due to his back) but he's a close 2nd to me.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#665 » by HumbleRen » Tue May 23, 2023 12:21 pm

Drafting would be alot easier if we already had a stud guard on our team lol.

(god I wish Masai had the foresight to hop on that Haliburton trade)
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#666 » by Clutch0z24 » Tue May 23, 2023 12:34 pm

Rodrickle wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:

These takes on Coulibaly are wild. Clumsy and uncoordinated is definitely not how I'd describe him. A game like OG? OG would be a tiger to Coulibaly's cheetah to use an animal kingdom comparison. Coulibaly's handle is already better than OG, but no question OG is the better player and Coulibaly would have a lot of work to make that even a comparison.



That last sentence has been my thought on Coulibaly for months now. The draft is about projection. You don't want the best player right now. You want the best player in 4-5 years...unless you're a GM worried about your job, and those GMs rarely win.


Theres no guarantee Bilal will be the best player in 4-5 years though....Hes already one of the more Raw players in the 1st round at least and at 13 there are a few guys who look to have more skills than Bilal overall and id trust to become better players...

I get people look at the body and say wow he has a great body for the NBA but that doesn't always translate to talent on the court....a guy like Bufkin to me is miles ahead of Bilal in the development and overall game atm..

;ab_channel=LeagueHim

Hes my pick anyways...Imo he has Fox type potential...Already has a good midrange/3pt game and is the best layup rim finishers in all of this draft....Also is a good fiesty defender and has the size for a guard to be elite, Can also get his shot off the dribble...Just in terms of overall game right now hes mile ahead of Bilal imo.


I think he's gonna be a good player, but not sure about Fox potential. He's really not a great athlete although he's decent. You're right in terms of finishing though. He's elite in that regard. His improvement over the year was great and he seems like a good character guy from a good family. I would prefer Cason if he drops (Who I don't think showed his full athleticism at Kentucky due to his back) but he's a close 2nd to me.


Cason
Bufkin
Goerge
Black

All guards id be fine with us getting....I like all of them just on offense i think Bufkin has the highest upside.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#667 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue May 23, 2023 1:13 pm

I still got Bufkin, Bilal, Hawkins, Sidy at 13. If we can trade for #3 for Scoot that would be ideal but we'll see how things shake out
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#668 » by OakleyDokely » Tue May 23, 2023 1:14 pm

I like Bilal but he's a long way off from making an impact. He's a role player in the french league who just started getting decent minutes. Maybe he's not 2 years away from being 2 years away, but he's at least 1 year away from being 1 year away. He's a guy who won't probably give you a lot until his 2nd contract. I don't have an issue with this if you believe he's going to be good eventually. But he's not a guy you can slot into the rotation right away.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#669 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue May 23, 2023 1:31 pm

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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#670 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue May 23, 2023 1:41 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:I like Bilal but he's a long way off from making an impact. He's a role player in the french league who just started getting decent minutes. Maybe he's not 2 years away from being 2 years away, but he's at least 1 year away from being 1 year away. He's a guy who won't probably give you a lot until his 2nd contract. I don't have an issue with this if you believe he's going to be good eventually. But he's not a guy you can slot into the rotation right away.


He dominated the lower level in France and has graduated to a starter in the Jeep Elite league since mid-April. Considering most of the first round looks like one and done NCAA players, I don't think he should be knocked for being too raw for the NBA. Half the mocked lottery is too raw for the NCAA and GLeague.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#671 » by Rapsfan07 » Tue May 23, 2023 1:42 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
Rodrickle wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
Theres no guarantee Bilal will be the best player in 4-5 years though....Hes already one of the more Raw players in the 1st round at least and at 13 there are a few guys who look to have more skills than Bilal overall and id trust to become better players...

I get people look at the body and say wow he has a great body for the NBA but that doesn't always translate to talent on the court....a guy like Bufkin to me is miles ahead of Bilal in the development and overall game atm..

;ab_channel=LeagueHim

Hes my pick anyways...Imo he has Fox type potential...Already has a good midrange/3pt game and is the best layup rim finishers in all of this draft....Also is a good fiesty defender and has the size for a guard to be elite, Can also get his shot off the dribble...Just in terms of overall game right now hes mile ahead of Bilal imo.


I think he's gonna be a good player, but not sure about Fox potential. He's really not a great athlete although he's decent. You're right in terms of finishing though. He's elite in that regard. His improvement over the year was great and he seems like a good character guy from a good family. I would prefer Cason if he drops (Who I don't think showed his full athleticism at Kentucky due to his back) but he's a close 2nd to me.


Cason
Bufkin
Goerge
Black

All guards id be fine with us getting....I like all of them just on offense i think Bufkin has the highest upside.


This is what I have now too, minus Black. I might move down and grab two other players in the later part of the draft instead of taking Black.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#672 » by ArthurVandelay » Tue May 23, 2023 1:48 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
ArthurVandelay wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
- Bilal is around 6'7" - 200lbs. That is the same range as the following- Dick, Thompson twins, Max Lewis, Black, Rupert, GG
-
-

https://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/bilal-coulibaly/

https://www.sportsbusinessclassroom.com/scouting-boulogne-levallois-wing-bilal-coulibaly/

;ab_channel=LockedOnFantasyBasketball



These takes on Coulibaly are wild. Clumsy and uncoordinated is definitely not how I'd describe him. A game like OG? OG would be a tiger to Coulibaly's cheetah to use an animal kingdom comparison. Coulibaly's handle is already better than OG, but no question OG is the better player and Coulibaly would have a lot of work to make that even a comparison.

“Everything looks easy when you watch him play. He is graceful. Bilal has been blessed with superior athletic abilities. He learns fast, he is smart, he feels the game, you tell him something once and he gets it. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted. Bilal has a ways to go but he is gifted.


That last sentence has been my thought on Coulibaly for months now. The draft is about projection. You don't want the best player right now. You want the best player in 4-5 years...unless you're a GM worried about your job, and those GMs rarely win.


Theres no guarantee Bilal will be the best player in 4-5 years though....Hes already one of the more Raw players in the 1st round at least and at 13 there are a few guys who look to have more skills than Bilal overall and id trust to become better players...

I get people look at the body and say wow he has a great body for the NBA but that doesn't always translate to talent on the court....a guy like Bufkin to me is miles ahead of Bilal in the development and overall game atm..

;ab_channel=LeagueHim

Hes my pick anyways...Imo he has Fox type potential...Already has a good midrange/3pt game and is the best layup rim finishers in all of this draft....Also is a good fiesty defender and has the size for a guard to be elite, Can also get his shot off the dribble...Just in terms of overall game right now hes mile ahead of Bilal imo.


There is no guarantee on anything except 70% of players drafted are going to be out of the league in 4 years. Again it is about projecting. When you look how far Bilal has come in the last 2 years, how much he's grown, how quickly he has risen the ranks of professional league in Europe combined with his physical attributes I get excited about that. When you look at how he moves combined with a skill level that is certain to improve, I get excited about that. When you see his advanced defensive stats and his efficiency as a role player I get excited about that too.

I like Bufkin too, fwiw.

Bilal is putting up incredible defensive numbers already.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#673 » by WuTang_CMB » Tue May 23, 2023 1:55 pm

Miller's season, which saw him named SEC player of the year and a first-team All-American, elevated him on many NBA teams' big boards to the No. 2 prospect in the class. Tuesday's lottery results further solidified his chances of hearing his name called immediately after Victor Wembanyama at No. 1, as both of the teams who rose into the top three -- Charlotte and Portland -- have bigger needs on the wing than at guard. While there is a process that will need to play out over the next month, it was hard to find a single NBA executive at the draft combine who believed that G League Ignite guard Scoot Henderson will eventually rise into the No. 2 spot.

There are several mitigating factors that will still need to play out for that to become a reality, though. Hornets general manager Mitch Kupchak is known to place individual team workouts very high up on his priority list when it comes to his decision-making process, and its unclear what type of workout Miller -- who was recovering at home in Nashville from mononucleosis while his peers were training for the pre-draft process -- will be able to conduct on his visit to Charlotte. Miller has lost 13 pounds and hasn't conducted much basketball activity since the season ended, his agent Wilmer Jackson told ESPN.

The fact that Kupchak attended Miller's best game of the season -- a 41-point performance at South Carolina in late February -- should help alleviate that concern. But the door is still open for Henderson to blow Charlotte executives out of the water during his individual workout, something he's more than capable of doing based on what we've seen the past two years.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#674 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue May 23, 2023 2:03 pm

I don't think you meet with 12 teams if it's an open secret that you're going 2nd.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#675 » by T-d0t » Tue May 23, 2023 2:06 pm

A lot of draft experts say that if Charlotte takes Miller over Scoot it's a giant mistake.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#676 » by OAKLEY_2 » Tue May 23, 2023 2:13 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
h4rrison wrote:This draft is stacked. Lots of good players in the lottery that would be top 5 picks in previous years. I think this is the year we should try to get a second frp on top of our 13th pick.


I agree. The easiest way to do that is to agree to trade OG, Flynn and the 13th pick on draft night for the 7th pick, Benedict Malthurin, TJ McConnell, the 26th pick and two seconds. Pritchard might hard no that but...

The Nets.

Nets send Spencer Dinwiddie, Cam Thomas, the 21st, 22nd, future first and two seconds for OG Anunoby and Malachi Flynn.

Raps take Wallace or George or Bufkin at 13. 21and 22 is where Coulibaly, Jett Howard, Bryce Sensibaugh or even James Nnaji could all go. This is the reset that says good bye to Fred and OG era. It means two players headed for big money go elsewhere.

Pacers deal.

Paskal/Poetl/Gradey Dick
Scottie/Malthurin

Nets deal

Paskal/Poetl/Scottie
Spencer Dinwiddie/Keyonte George

Or
Paskal/Poetl/Scottie
Spencer Dinwiddie/Cason Wallace

Either of these refits I like Scariolo coaching.


Why on earth would Indy trade Ben Mac & 7 for, they wouldn't.


Running it back confirmed. Guaranteed Masai Bobby already asked for Malthurin. Let's not act like McCon breaks the deal. It is number 6 from last year's draft Malthurin who has to battle it with Hield and Haliburton for touches. We should be doing the full court press for players like that if these draft packages have been circling the OG wagons. Masai even rejected OG for Sharpe apparently...
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#677 » by OakleyDokely » Tue May 23, 2023 2:18 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:I like Bilal but he's a long way off from making an impact. He's a role player in the french league who just started getting decent minutes. Maybe he's not 2 years away from being 2 years away, but he's at least 1 year away from being 1 year away. He's a guy who won't probably give you a lot until his 2nd contract. I don't have an issue with this if you believe he's going to be good eventually. But he's not a guy you can slot into the rotation right away.


He dominated the lower level in France and has graduated to a starter in the Jeep Elite league since mid-April. Considering most of the first round looks like one and done NCAA players, I don't think he should be knocked for being too raw for the NBA. Half the mocked lottery is too raw for the NCAA and GLeague.


I don't think it's a knock at all, most draft picks in general don't provide positive impact initially, especially teenagers. Which is why you shouldn't be drafting for need because the player you pick likely won't fill that need in any real meaningful way right away anyways. By the time that player is good, you might have different needs.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#678 » by Dalek » Tue May 23, 2023 2:23 pm

There was a draft interview with Max Lewis and he talked about how he is up to 206 lbs and I just remain curious about this 6'7 wing.


Elite vertical athlete
Shot creator from the perimeter
Advanced step-thru and pivot moves
Capable defender
Can make basic pick and roll reads

There are very workable tools in there and he has been training against NBA guys like Keon Johnson at Impact.

I think he was lotto after 15 games because he was 50/40/80 after 15 games but his stock went down after teams adjusted to him. I remain curious about him because he looks like an NBA wing with some scoring upside to be over 20 a game.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#679 » by ItsDanger » Tue May 23, 2023 2:39 pm

T-d0t wrote:A lot of draft experts say that if Charlotte takes Miller over Scoot it's a giant mistake.

I don't see Scoot or Lamelo being good off ball players. Its a pairing that won't maximize each other's best assets, they each need the ball in their hands. You could still do it and adjust later and just accept its not the best version of a backcourt.
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Re: 2023 Draft Discussion Part 5 

Post#680 » by REJECTEDBYCLARK » Tue May 23, 2023 2:49 pm

Dalek wrote:There was a draft interview with Max Lewis and he talked about how he is up to 206 lbs and I just remain curious about this 6'7 wing.


Elite vertical athlete
Shot creator from the perimeter
Advanced step-thru and pivot moves
Capable defender
Can make basic pick and roll reads

There are very workable tools in there and he has been training against NBA guys like Keon Johnson at Impact.

I think he was lotto after 15 games because he was 50/40/80 after 15 games but his stock went down after teams adjusted to him. I remain curious about him because he looks like an NBA wing with some scoring upside to be over 20 a game.


I love Max Lewis and will be rooting for him hard to become a great NBA player. He's an exciting player to watch.

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