Raptors coaching search - Part 2

[BDE]

Kenny and Sergio are win right now coaches. They're not going to tank it out. So, if the Raptors get the strong sense they can't afford FVV/Poeltl/Trent and don't want to pay Siakam, then it makes no sense to hire those two guys. In that case, they may open the competition back up to Nash and Fernandez. Those guys may still try to win, but they would have worse tools to work with.

I dont see how keeping FVV and Siakam are Win-Now moves though.

If we trade Siakam for the 3rd pick - for example - and if Scoot is there, do we really take a step back? If we trade FVV for a 1st or future considerations , do we take a step back or forward with that?

We missed the playoffs with those two and Nurse's stubborn coaching. Making some changes in that regard shouldn't necessarily equate to taking a step back.

Yes. Siakam and Fred are good NBA players. Scoot was a bad GLeague player. They were .500. They would be in the .300s with those moves and hope to turn it around 2-3 years from now. Sergio isn't coming over just to babysit and tell Scoot his airballs look good leaving his hand.

Fred is a good NBA player? If his percentages and constant "Me/Bet on myself ball" are what you call good basketball, then I think we just need to agree to disagree. I'm not interested in .500 ball and replacing FVV with Scoot is a risk I'm willing to take.

I dont think Sergio or Kenny would have the stomach to watch FVV throw up random 3-balls and drive into the lane to get blocked over and over again.

[Dennis 37]

I dont see how keeping FVV and Siakam are Win-Now moves though.

If we trade Siakam for the 3rd pick - for example - and if Scoot is there, do we really take a step back? If we trade FVV for a 1st or future considerations , do we take a step back or forward with that?

We missed the playoffs with those two and Nurse's stubborn coaching. Making some changes in that regard shouldn't necessarily equate to taking a step back.

Yes. Siakam and Fred are good NBA players. Scoot was a bad GLeague player. They were .500. They would be in the .300s with those moves and hope to turn it around 2-3 years from now. Sergio isn't coming over just to babysit and tell Scoot his airballs look good leaving his hand.

Fred is a good NBA player? If his percentages and constant "Me/Bet on myself ball" are what you call good basketball, then I think we just need to agree to disagree. I'm not interested in .500 ball and replacing FVV with Scoot is a risk I'm willing to take.

I dont think Sergio or Kenny would have the stomach to watch FVV throw up random 3-balls and drive into the lane to get blocked over and over again.

Many of us feel getting nothing for FVV is a step forward, so I am confused as to how getting the 3rd overall would make that a negative.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I dont see how keeping FVV and Siakam are Win-Now moves though.

If we trade Siakam for the 3rd pick - for example - and if Scoot is there, do we really take a step back? If we trade FVV for a 1st or future considerations , do we take a step back or forward with that?

We missed the playoffs with those two and Nurse's stubborn coaching. Making some changes in that regard shouldn't necessarily equate to taking a step back.

Yes. Siakam and Fred are good NBA players. Scoot was a bad GLeague player. They were .500. They would be in the .300s with those moves and hope to turn it around 2-3 years from now. Sergio isn't coming over just to babysit and tell Scoot his airballs look good leaving his hand.

Fred is a good NBA player? If his percentages and constant "Me/Bet on myself ball" are what you call good basketball, then I think we just need to agree to disagree. I'm not interested in .500 ball and replacing FVV with Scoot is a risk I'm willing to take.

I dont think Sergio or Kenny would have the stomach to watch FVV throw up random 3-balls and drive into the lane to get blocked over and over again.

There's a discord for these takes. See if you can snag an invite.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Kenny is a good coach who was really only canned because of Brooklyn's superteam delusions. It's not like that front office's decision making has been exemplary in any way in the Joe Tsai era (or for that matter the Prokhorov era before it).

[WuTang_CMB]

Raptors are not tanking in any scenario ie. younger vs older coach, getting rid of fred.

Masai wants to develop and win (45-50 wins) at the same time just like the Casey years.

I'd guess there will be some early growing pains with Darko/Jordi vs Sergio/Atkinson just from pure experience

But I think we need to realize we aren't rebuilding but rather "re-tooling" while staying competitive. And then add more talent as we go. That's just how I'm viewing our situation (rightly or wrongly)

I don’t think they will tank either. Though if they decide to go ‘younger’ it will probably be trading Fred/Siakam and acquiring young talent with upside but still competing to win games. You can’t really tank if Barnes takes a step forward in year 3 either.

I think they extend OG and Siakam this off-season and then let FVV walk or S&T him. I just have a hard time seeing Masai moving on from Siakam. I agree the goal should be getting younger. #13 will help - they need to hit.

[Dalek]

Kenny Atkinson turned down HC job in Charlotte last year. Steve Kerr mentioned why:

“We’re in a great place. We’ve got great players. We live in a beautiful part of the country. Kenny’s got two kids, teenagers, who really wanted to stay,” Kerr said. “It’s a really difficult thing to try to take a job in the middle of the Finals without really getting a chance to unwind. I think over the course of the Finals he just felt like this is not the best time for my family and me to leave.”

Kenny in the recent interview again mentioned The Bay area and prep school for his kids. I think he loves it there and doesn't want the stress of change. I am thinking that is the slowness with him.

[Thaddy]

I don't know anything about any of these coaches and quite frankly have no interest in learning about them. The only way you will ever truly know how they coach is when they actually coach your team and that's really all I care about - not their great histories.

I just hope Masai isn't planning on running it back with the same team, hoping that a European team ball approach will suddenly make his flawed roster a team worth wasting a season and young player development on.

I think the key for all of this to work is to find great guard talent for OG. I really doubt we can get Scoot for OG, a realistic package would probably be something from Memphis or maybe even NOP.

Tyus Jones, Brooks, Aldama, 2 firsts, 2 first round swaps for OG would be realistic.

Poeltl - Achiuwa - Koloko
Siakam - Boucher - Aldama
Barnes - Brooks - OPJ
FVV - Trent
Jones - Wallace (13th)

An additional guard on the floor is another extension of the coach on the floor. We had no competent guards last season by having at least 3 on our roster that can run a pick and roll we would be miles better already. That was the more pressing need last season than a center like Poeltl.

What an awful trade idea.

Yeah because a team is giving up a top 3 pick for OG

[ATLTimekeeper]

Kenny Atkinson turned down HC job in Charlotte last year. Steve Kerr mentioned why:

“We’re in a great place. We’ve got great players. We live in a beautiful part of the country. Kenny’s got two kids, teenagers, who really wanted to stay,” Kerr said. “It’s a really difficult thing to try to take a job in the middle of the Finals without really getting a chance to unwind. I think over the course of the Finals he just felt like this is not the best time for my family and me to leave.”

Kenny in the recent interview again mentioned The Bay area and prep school for his kids. I think he loves it there and doesn't want the stress of change. I am thinking that is the slowness with him.

The other angle was that Charlotte didn't want to pay for his choice of assistants. If he doesn't want the Raptors job then he shouldn't have interviewed at all.

[PhilBlackson]

I think the key for all of this to work is to find great guard talent for OG. I really doubt we can get Scoot for OG, a realistic package would probably be something from Memphis or maybe even NOP.

Tyus Jones, Brooks, Aldama, 2 firsts, 2 first round swaps for OG would be realistic.

Poeltl - Achiuwa - Koloko
Siakam - Boucher - Aldama
Barnes - Brooks - OPJ
FVV - Trent
Jones - Wallace (13th)

An additional guard on the floor is another extension of the coach on the floor. We had no competent guards last season by having at least 3 on our roster that can run a pick and roll we would be miles better already. That was the more pressing need last season than a center like Poeltl.

What an awful trade idea.

Yeah because a team is giving up a top 3 pick for OG

A top 3 pick wasn't said by me but a team was willing to give a top 7 pick just last year and there are still teams in the top 5-10 that will gladly take him now which is MUCH better than that heaping pile of dog turd of role players and meaningless picks you're suggesting which is FAR more laughable

Hold this L.

[lorax]

If he doesn't want the Raptors job then he shouldn't have interviewed at all.

He may not know if he wants the job until he interviews. Management may not know if they want him until he interviews.
He may want a head coaching job with the right fit and leave his family in the Bay Area. Who knows?
One does not have to commit to interview.
I have told my kids to go to job interviews even if they don’t want the jobs just for skill building.
I realize that should not apply at this level of hiring.

[ATLTimekeeper]

If he doesn't want the Raptors job then he shouldn't have interviewed at all.

He may not know if he wants the job until he interviews. Management may not know if they want him until he interviews.
He may want a head coaching job with the right fit and leave his family in the Bay Area. Who knows?
One does not have to commit to interview.
I have told my kids to go to job interviews even if they don’t want the jobs just for skill building.
I realize that should not apply at this level of hiring.

This is the 2nd interview.

[Kingsway_fan]

Kenny Atkinson turned down HC job in Charlotte last year. Steve Kerr mentioned why:

“We’re in a great place. We’ve got great players. We live in a beautiful part of the country. Kenny’s got two kids, teenagers, who really wanted to stay,” Kerr said. “It’s a really difficult thing to try to take a job in the middle of the Finals without really getting a chance to unwind. I think over the course of the Finals he just felt like this is not the best time for my family and me to leave.”

Kenny in the recent interview again mentioned The Bay area and prep school for his kids. I think he loves it there and doesn't want the stress of change. I am thinking that is the slowness with him.

No chance in hell he leaves that for frigid Toronto, sadly... hope I am proven wrong. He would be excellent choice.

[ItsDanger]

Its been almost 7 weeks. That's excluding any prep work done prior to firing Nurse. Maybe they don't really like any of the candidates. Or maybe they're just indecisive.

[douggood]

kenny atkinson aint no spring chicken. he is 56 years old. he isnt in a position to be very picky about his future if he wants to be head coach again.

[OAKLEY_2]

Its been almost 7 weeks. That's excluding any prep work done prior to firing Nurse. Maybe they don't really like any of the candidates. Or maybe they're just indecisive.

Which is nothing. Raps should take their time. What's the urgency? No new hire is swaying their draft work anyway. Nobody from Europe is pitching free agents. Trade season they can help there. One way or another this team is getting a coach with a European resume.

[Dalek]

Kenny Atkinson turned down HC job in Charlotte last year. Steve Kerr mentioned why:

“We’re in a great place. We’ve got great players. We live in a beautiful part of the country. Kenny’s got two kids, teenagers, who really wanted to stay,” Kerr said. “It’s a really difficult thing to try to take a job in the middle of the Finals without really getting a chance to unwind. I think over the course of the Finals he just felt like this is not the best time for my family and me to leave.”

Kenny in the recent interview again mentioned The Bay area and prep school for his kids. I think he loves it there and doesn't want the stress of change. I am thinking that is the slowness with him.

The other angle was that Charlotte didn't want to pay for his choice of assistants. If he doesn't want the Raptors job then he shouldn't have interviewed at all.

That is really interesting about the assistants. Kenny in the radio interview I watched emphasized how coaching staffs have grown over the years. He mentioned GSW have something like 15 members of the staff if you include strength and conditioning, and the other coaches on staff. He said Steve Kerr's job is the in-game decision making, but also coordinating all of those people and activities.

My sense is that Atkinson after having worked with Coach Kerr, Budd, and D'Antoni, has a strong idea of how he would like to structure his coaching staff, and that might be different than what Toronto is used to.

The quality of assistants is quickly going down as we wait on this process everyday. Toronto needs to move quick because the draft and summer league and training are in mid-motion for most teams.

[Dalek]

kenny atkinson aint no spring chicken. he is 56 years old. he isnt in a position to be very picky about his future if he wants to be head coach again.

I think he can be picky and proved it with Charlotte last year. If Kerr leaves for San Antonio in a year or two he might have the Warriors job lined up. He lives in California and probably has a good role and voice within the locker room.

Maybe he has some tactical leverage in that the longer Toronto is strung out the more they are willing to pay him. Look at what happened to Detroit with Monty Williams. Early reports said he was out and rejecting their offer, and then a couple weeks later he becomes one of the league's highest paid coaches.

[StopitLeo]

I think all this talk about the type coach determining the direction of the team is overstated and silly. Hiring a coach is a long-term play. Masai could decide to blow up the team this summer or next summer. We're not going to hire a new coach everytime we change directions.

That’s why you want a coach with good player development abilities. Atkinson fits the bill but I think FVV needs to go to allow Atkinson to be most effective.

[ATLTimekeeper]

kenny atkinson aint no spring chicken. he is 56 years old. he isnt in a position to be very picky about his future if he wants to be head coach again.

I think he can be picky and proved it with Charlotte last year. If Kerr leaves for San Antonio in a year or two he might have the Warriors job lined up. He lives in California and probably has a good role and voice within the locker room.

Maybe he has some tactical leverage in that the longer Toronto is strung out the more they are willing to pay him. Look at what happened to Detroit with Monty Williams. Early reports said he was out and rejecting their offer, and then a couple weeks later he becomes one of the league's highest paid coaches.

Monty's leverage was 20 million. The Pistons were screwed because they had already announced their 'final 2' were meeting with ownership, and then they got caught going after Monty. They ended up bidding against themselves.

Atkinson's already been rejected for the Suns and Bucks job. He's not being picky.

[Zeno]

If we get Atkinson, you can almost already see the Russel, FVV sign and trade where they try to convince us that Atkinson is the DeAngelo whisperer cause he had his all-star season in Brooklyn under him. Hopefully it's like a two year, 2nd year team option type deal if that happens and we get something more out of it because I am not a fan of Russell at all.