With the 45th pick, the Raptors select Jamal Shead

[manjusaka]

He is a 2nd rounder. So don’t put on too much expectation on him. If he becomes a solid backup PG, it’s a real win. I do agree his shooting looks much better compared to the beginning of the season.

[Tripod]

I'll never understand the compulsive need for ridiculously simplistic, overly black-and-white argumentation.

I loathed Fred for his frustrating pounding-the-rock, driving into three defenders, I'm the big man PG style after the '19 run. Does that mean any semi-promising second round pick (and I love Shead so far) is better than him? **** no, that's ridiculous.

FVV: I'm glad he's gone, but I can admit he still brings value to teams in this league. He helped bring us a championship ffs.
Shead: Very fun kid for how low he was drafted. Excited to see how he'll develop.
Overall: Nuance is not a french dessert. Get over your fragile little ego and be fair - your life will be better for it.

Exactly how I feel.

Happy Fred helped us win a Championship

Happy last few years Fred is no longer on team

Happy with Shead so far in his development but he is still far away from reaching FVV level. Let's just enjoy actually having some youth to develop. Been awhile.

[Vampirate]

Lets just chill on this.

I don't think Shead really has more athletic ability than young FVV. They are fairly similar athletic profiles.

Shead hit 127 3's in 238 college games at a 29.6% rate. FVV hit 141 in 141 games at a 38.6% clip. UNtil we get a better sample, it is tough to say if Shead is even an average shooter, let alone borderline elite like FVV was for a few years (was high volume + high % for many years)

Jamal has shot 38 mid ranget shots all year. His 60.7% is such a small sample we can barely even comment on it.

And no, his assist rate does not make up for it. FVV was like a 3.50 A/T ratio kind of guy. Shead is 2.3 right now, below Davion and IQ. In our championship season Lowry was 3.1 and FVV was 3.7. Shead has a LONG way to go here.


Jesus **** christ. You guys have no ability to be subjective re: FVV anymore.

Shead does NOTHING better than FVV does offensively right now. Nothing. Not saying he can't improve, but if he was better than FVV offensively he would be a **** starting PG from day 1

Are you comparing Shead to 1st year FVV or championship FVV? FVV wasn't a starting calibre PG in his first year. If he was he wouldn't have gone undrafted.

Vampire appears to be comparing FVV's entire career, so I assume peak or average FVV?

And to be fair, FVV was a 2nd round talent who refused a two-way thing (or was it a G-League rights thing?) which is why he went undrafted. He would've been drafted in the current NBA climate of two-way deals.

Shead went 45th in a weak class, FVV maybe goes early 2nd.

When you're comparing a rookie to a Vet, the Vet's always going to look better but we have enough of a sample size of both tell tell what their strengths and weaknesses are (mostly)

FVV's strengths are he's a good defender, good passer, decent enough playmaker, and good shooter overall.

FVV's biggest weaknesses are his finishing from 3-16 feet, in terms of at the rim he's about below average-average for a player his size.

His FG% dips below 40% quite a bit because well he's a career .320 from 3-10 ft, and .385 from 10-16ft, despite being a very good FT and 3P shooter he's not good enough in those areas, thus he has no real other way to score when his 3 is off. (when his 3 is onj he can single handily win you a game (or a series in the case against the Bucks).

Shead on the other hand feels like a different player entirely.

I have no idea what to make of his current 3 point shooting and his upside entirely holds if he can maintain at least about 35% or above from 3 (i'm not expecting him to be FVV in this area).

I'm expecting Shead to be the better 2P scorer to balance that out.

However from 3-16 feet, I think it's safe to say you can project him to be better in that area than FVV going forwards, give credit to the guy, .415 and .607 is impressive for a rookie. If he can maintain about .400 and .450 for the rest of the year (not a big ask) it's not hard to envision him being better than FVV in that area moving forwards.

As said, the biggest thing in my view that's holding Shead back is his piss poor Ftr .120 and mediocre FT shooting .682.

All in all, Shead might have more consistent scoring due to his 2P seemingly being more reliable (just projecting on what he's done) than FVV, however the variance of the 3 gives FVV the higher ceiling game to game. Scoring wise, it looks like with FVV the highs are higher and the lows are lower.

As for Shead's TO, since he has an above 2 to 1 A/TO ratio, it's not that a big deal to me.

Should also note, saying FVV is better than Shead in literally everything is over defending him, especially looking at them both very early in their careers.

[Ell Curry]

This guy is overrated. He's an older prospect at 22 and he's been leaking on defense despite that being his calling. His DBPM, DDARKO, DDRIP, and crafted DPM all rank 20th percentile in the NBA. That's **** brutal man.

Our back up C and PG positions are huge issues. If we ended up with the 7th pick and there's an opportunity to move down and get two picks between 10-20 and take Fland and Maluach I would take it. That could change the trajectory of our record next season and keep our starters' legs fresh and injury-free.

There's a chance he can improve but right now you have to say he has poor positional size, and shooting. That's a deadly combo (for us).

Learn more here: https://craftednba.com/players/jamal-shead

I see your point, but I'm always a bit careful when it comes to raw numbers without context. I'd be more interested in a comparison of Shead's numbers agains other rookie PGs who turned out to be rotation players, and even then the numbers don't show the history of a player's flaws, his propensity to improve when put into a good development program, etc.

For now, I'm rooting for the kid because I've seen a great attitude and flashes of skill and improvement, and I'll leave the rest to the professionals. Not so concerned with our backup PG issues at this moment, that's a piece you can add once you're trying to be competitive.

If you never watch a game/rely solely on a math/big picture eval, the casge for Shead is rough. Didn't really improve throughout college, doesn't draw FTs, isn't an elite 3pt shooter, is small, not a Kyrie or Garland type wizard with the ball or finishing at the rim.

If you watch the games, he definitely looks more promising, but I have no idea if he'll be a 10 year solid backup PG or a 3rd PG type. He was like a -14 a month ago and is now only -8, but considering his age and that he's Davion Mitchell isn't exactly skewing the stats, I'd still bet against Shead and have him in mind as a 3rd PG.

If you're high on him, then maybe he can be our T.J McConnell sparkplug type 3rd PG with Harper or Jakucionis as the Haliburton and Quickley as the Nembhard, where you do need a playable 3rd PG even when everyone is healthy, because one of your 2 main PGs plays a ton of 2-guard minutes along with a more traditional bigger 2-guard type like Mathurin/Sheppard, which for us would be say 2 of Agbaji/Dick/Walter with Dick/Agbaji as the backup 3 to whoever hopefully replaces RJ in that role long-term (draft or trade, impossible to say right now).

[YogurtProducer]

However from 3-16 feet, I think it's safe to say you can project him to be better in that area than FVV going forwards, give credit to the guy, .415 and .607 is impressive for a rookie. If he can maintain about .400 and .450 for the rest of the year (not a big ask) it's not hard to envision him being better than FVV in that area moving forwards.

Not a big ask, just shoot from the mid range at the same % as some of the better mid range players in the league You are getting WAY To hyped over Shead's 35ish mid range shots in his career. If he misses 5 in a row, he will drop below 50%. That is how volatile that stat is right now.

Sorry man. You are either heavily overrating Shead (who has been a below average NBA player in almost every respect this year) or underrating what FVV become.

To the point where you now say "Shead on the other hand feels like a different player entirely.". No, they really are not. They are both hard working small PGs except FVV had an exceptionally better shooting touch and playmaking chops.

But hey - keep brining FVV and his 294 minutes as a rookie as indicative of how Shea is better than him at the same age.

If you want, take a look at their G-League stats.

Shead - 10.8/2.6/10.8 on 43.5TS%
FVV - 18.8/3.9/8.5 on 52.8TS%

FVV is just miles ahead at the same age as an offensive player.

His FG% dips below 40% quite a bit because well he's a career .320 from 3-10 ft, and .385 from 10-16ft, despite being a very good FT and 3P shooter he's not good enough in those areas, thus he has no real other way to score when his 3 is off. (when his 3 is onj he can single handily win you a game (or a series in the case against the Bucks).

Sure - and Shead doesn't even have a 3 to rely on Shead simply CANT score at a significant rate at this point in his career and it would be shocking if he ever can. He just hasn't EVER been that guy.

[brownbobcat]

If you never watch a game/rely solely on a math/big picture eval, the casge for Shead is rough. Didn't really improve throughout college, doesn't draw FTs, isn't an elite 3pt shooter, is small, not a Kyrie or Garland type wizard with the ball or finishing at the rim.

If you watch the games, he definitely looks more promising, but I have no idea if he'll be a 10 year solid backup PG or a 3rd PG type. He was like a -14 a month ago and is now only -8, but considering his age and that he's Davion Mitchell isn't exactly skewing the stats, I'd still bet against Shead and have him in mind as a 3rd PG.

If you're high on him, then maybe he can be our T.J McConnell sparkplug type 3rd PG with Harper or Jakucionis as the Haliburton and Quickley as the Nembhard, where you do need a playable 3rd PG even when everyone is healthy, because one of your 2 main PGs plays a ton of 2-guard minutes along with a more traditional bigger 2-guard type like Mathurin/Sheppard, which for us would be say 2 of Agbaji/Dick/Walter with Dick/Agbaji as the backup 3 to whoever hopefully replaces RJ in that role long-term (draft or trade, impossible to say right now).

People underestimate how valuable it is to find a TJ McConnell type in the 2nd round. I'd be thrilled if Shead became that.

[tsherkin]

People underestimate how valuable it is to find a TJ McConnell type in the 2nd round. I'd be thrilled if Shead became that.

That'd only really relevant if we're sorted for our starters and our first two bench guys, I'd think. It'd be nice, but that could be said of any second rounder, no?

[Basketball_Jones]

I like him, but I still have PTSD over Malachi who showed way more then Shead in his rookie year and I never thought he was that good. Just helps put things in perspective, he needs massive improvement in shooting if he is to stick around post rookie contract. So far he appears to be on that path I think but we’ll see.

[Ell Curry]

If you never watch a game/rely solely on a math/big picture eval, the casge for Shead is rough. Didn't really improve throughout college, doesn't draw FTs, isn't an elite 3pt shooter, is small, not a Kyrie or Garland type wizard with the ball or finishing at the rim.

If you watch the games, he definitely looks more promising, but I have no idea if he'll be a 10 year solid backup PG or a 3rd PG type. He was like a -14 a month ago and is now only -8, but considering his age and that he's Davion Mitchell isn't exactly skewing the stats, I'd still bet against Shead and have him in mind as a 3rd PG.

If you're high on him, then maybe he can be our T.J McConnell sparkplug type 3rd PG with Harper or Jakucionis as the Haliburton and Quickley as the Nembhard, where you do need a playable 3rd PG even when everyone is healthy, because one of your 2 main PGs plays a ton of 2-guard minutes along with a more traditional bigger 2-guard type like Mathurin/Sheppard, which for us would be say 2 of Agbaji/Dick/Walter with Dick/Agbaji as the backup 3 to whoever hopefully replaces RJ in that role long-term (draft or trade, impossible to say right now).

People underestimate how valuable it is to find a TJ McConnell type in the 2nd round. I'd be thrilled if Shead became that.

Yeah. A 10M a year player in the 2nd round is a steal. There's normally about 3 per year on average, looking at it. If you get one of those guys you're doing great.

Personally, I have a hard time getting to McConnell level value here, even though I like what I see. The math is tough. Good news is he's cheap and fairly young and we've got playing time, and will next year unless we draft 2 guards, which seems unlikely. So we have the rest of this season to give him serious minutes and then even if we pick a PG/combo guard in the draft, a few minutes next year (though it's easy to see a scenario where Barrett + Agbaji play the SF minutes, Dick + Walter the SG minutes and Quickley + Rookie the PG minutes and the rookie even needs to grab 5-10 minutes a night at the 2 guard spot and we have a bit of a minute crunch. But there will be injuries and opportunities that way, or maybe some smallball minutes too.

[LoveMyRaps]

Damn, I went to see how Jalen McDaniels was doing this season and he hasn't even played a single minute in the NBA.

He's averaging 12ppg in the G-League

I can't believe we got Shead for him.

Not to mention, Masai is probably gonna draft another gem with that POR pick.

[brownbobcat]

People underestimate how valuable it is to find a TJ McConnell type in the 2nd round. I'd be thrilled if Shead became that.

That'd only really relevant if we're sorted for our starters and our first two bench guys, I'd think. It'd be nice, but that could be said of any second rounder, no?

Beggars can't be choosers.

[tsherkin]

People underestimate how valuable it is to find a TJ McConnell type in the 2nd round. I'd be thrilled if Shead became that.

That'd only really relevant if we're sorted for our starters and our first two bench guys, I'd think. It'd be nice, but that could be said of any second rounder, no?

Beggars can't be choosers.

Sure, sure. But all I'm saying is "it'd be nice" applies to any second round pick, ever.

[brownbobcat]

That'd only really relevant if we're sorted for our starters and our first two bench guys, I'd think. It'd be nice, but that could be said of any second rounder, no?

Beggars can't be choosers.

Sure, sure. But all I'm saying is "it'd be nice" applies to any second round pick, ever.

It does. There are some positives from Shead, but it's not like he's blowing the door off so I'm not super excited or anything. I certainly don't think his floor is FVV

[tsherkin]

It does. There are some positives from Shead, but it's not like he's blowing the door off so I'm not super excited or anything. I certainly don't think his floor is FVV

At that pick, anything he provides is good enough for me.

[deck]

Damn, I went to see how Jalen McDaniels was doing this season and he hasn't even played a single minute in the NBA.

He's averaging 12ppg in the G-League

I can't believe we got Shead for him.

Not to mention, Masai is probably gonna draft another gem with that POR pick.

And Davion. All three things we got back in that trade are individually worth more than McDaniels.

Even worse for Sacramento, adding Demar, which was the purpose of that trade, has not worked out.

[LoveMyRaps]

Damn, I went to see how Jalen McDaniels was doing this season and he hasn't even played a single minute in the NBA.

He's averaging 12ppg in the G-League

I can't believe we got Shead for him.

Not to mention, Masai is probably gonna draft another gem with that POR pick.

And Davion. All three things we got back in that trade are individually worth more than McDaniels.

Even worse for Sacramento, adding Demar, which was the purpose of that trade, has not worked out.

Masai is gonna flip Davion into two second round picks and will hit on at least one of 'em.

[Dennis 37]

Lets just chill on this.

I don't think Shead really has more athletic ability than young FVV. They are fairly similar athletic profiles.

Shead hit 127 3's in 238 college games at a 29.6% rate. FVV hit 141 in 141 games at a 38.6% clip. UNtil we get a better sample, it is tough to say if Shead is even an average shooter, let alone borderline elite like FVV was for a few years (was high volume + high % for many years)

Jamal has shot 38 mid ranget shots all year. His 60.7% is such a small sample we can barely even comment on it.

And no, his assist rate does not make up for it. FVV was like a 3.50 A/T ratio kind of guy. Shead is 2.3 right now, below Davion and IQ. In our championship season Lowry was 3.1 and FVV was 3.7. Shead has a LONG way to go here.


Jesus **** christ. You guys have no ability to be subjective re: FVV anymore.

Shead does NOTHING better than FVV does offensively right now. Nothing. Not saying he can't improve, but if he was better than FVV offensively he would be a **** starting PG from day 1

Are you comparing Shead to 1st year FVV or championship FVV? FVV wasn't a starting calibre PG in his first year. If he was he wouldn't have gone undrafted.

Vampire appears to be comparing FVV's entire career, so I assume peak or average FVV?

And to be fair, FVV was a 2nd round talent who refused a two-way thing (or was it a G-League rights thing?) which is why he went undrafted. He would've been drafted in the current NBA climate of two-way deals.

Shead went 45th in a weak class, FVV maybe goes early 2nd.

FVV would have gone 2nd round if a team was willing to give him a full contract, not a two-way. Therefore no team thought he was worthy of a full contract.

I'm getting the impression those who are dumping on my Shead optimism are comparing him to peak or average FVV and not 1st year FVV.

[YogurtProducer]

Are you comparing Shead to 1st year FVV or championship FVV? FVV wasn't a starting calibre PG in his first year. If he was he wouldn't have gone undrafted.

Vampire appears to be comparing FVV's entire career, so I assume peak or average FVV?

And to be fair, FVV was a 2nd round talent who refused a two-way thing (or was it a G-League rights thing?) which is why he went undrafted. He would've been drafted in the current NBA climate of two-way deals.

Shead went 45th in a weak class, FVV maybe goes early 2nd.

FVV would have gone 2nd round if a team was willing to give him a full contract, not a two-way. Therefore no team thought he was worthy of a full contract.

I'm getting the impression those who are dumping on my Shead optimism are comparing him to peak or average FVV and not 1st year FVV.

1st year FVV was still superior to 1st year Shead. He just didn’t play due to us having good PG depth (Lowry CoJo Delon). Go check the G League numbers.

FVV was drafted in a different climate. 2-ways didn’t exist so he declined a “NBA rights” thing where he goes to the g-league without an nba deal. Completely different from the 2-ways we have now… they didn’t exist yet

[Scase]

Damn, I went to see how Jalen McDaniels was doing this season and he hasn't even played a single minute in the NBA.

He's averaging 12ppg in the G-League

I can't believe we got Shead for him.

Not to mention, Masai is probably gonna draft another gem with that POR pick.

And Davion. All three things we got back in that trade are individually worth more than McDaniels.

Even worse for Sacramento, adding Demar, which was the purpose of that trade, has not worked out.

Definitely not detracting from Masai as it was a great trade, but honestly a kick in the dick would have been better than McDaniels lol.

[Psubs]

Vampire appears to be comparing FVV's entire career, so I assume peak or average FVV?

And to be fair, FVV was a 2nd round talent who refused a two-way thing (or was it a G-League rights thing?) which is why he went undrafted. He would've been drafted in the current NBA climate of two-way deals.

Shead went 45th in a weak class, FVV maybe goes early 2nd.

FVV would have gone 2nd round if a team was willing to give him a full contract, not a two-way. Therefore no team thought he was worthy of a full contract.

I'm getting the impression those who are dumping on my Shead optimism are comparing him to peak or average FVV and not 1st year FVV.

1st year FVV was still superior to 1st year Shead. He just didn’t play due to us having good PG depth (Lowry CoJo Delon). Go check the G League numbers.

FVV was drafted in a different climate. 2-ways didn’t exist so he declined a “NBA rights” thing where he goes to the g-league without an nba deal. Completely different from the 2-ways we have now… they didn’t exist yet

I thought Delon would be the better PG but he never put it together and was more like Alvin Williams.

Really it's the eye test that the plays he makes are more of what you want a PG to be. I can see sometimes he makes some riskier passes but he's playing the right way. Same way that Battle always seems to do what looks right. He's not the most athletic but at least like Mo Pete that shoots better.