2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 9

[DreamTeam09]

So updated mock based on intel:

1. Cooper (Dallas)
2. Dylan (SAS)
3. VJ (Philly) .. assuming no trade down
4. Tre (Char)
5. Ace (Utah)
6. KM (Wash)
7. Fears (NO)
8. Noa (BRK)

Kon drops to 9

Where's the KM to Washington Intel?

[NotMyKawhi]

I like will riley and Nembhard. Tbh id prefer only canadians. Invest in them. Use the raptors as a training camp for international play. Theres a Canadian in every draft.

We gotta learn our lesson. Superstars dont wanna play here.

[PoundTown]

So updated mock based on intel:

1. Cooper (Dallas)
2. Dylan (SAS)
3. VJ (Philly) .. assuming no trade down
4. Tre (Char)
5. Ace (Utah)
6. KM (Wash)
7. Fears (NO)
8. Noa (BRK)

Kon drops to 9

Where's the KM to Washington Intel?

You'd think with Coulibaly and Sarr these dudes would want an offensvie playmaker like Tre, or Fears or a shot maker like Ace.

[PhilBlackson]

So updated mock based on intel:

1. Cooper (Dallas)
2. Dylan (SAS)
3. VJ (Philly) .. assuming no trade down
4. Tre (Char)
5. Ace (Utah)
6. KM (Wash)
7. Fears (NO)
8. Noa (BRK)

Kon drops to 9

If that were the case then it totally makes sense to trade down with ATL if they’re just desperate for another C ie/ Queen…

We take one of Bryant (least likely to still be available), Coward or Traore with the 13th…then 22 on Fleming then package 39 + cash considerations to get back in the late first for one Yang or Kalkbrenner.

Then the roster is almost completely balanced and also plenty of tradeable chips.

[WuTang_CMB]

So updated mock based on intel:

1. Cooper (Dallas)
2. Dylan (SAS)
3. VJ (Philly) .. assuming no trade down
4. Tre (Char)
5. Ace (Utah)
6. KM (Wash)
7. Fears (NO)
8. Noa (BRK)

Kon drops to 9

Where's the KM to Washington Intel?

Fears and KM could flip or BRK takes him. But all signs is KM will be picked before.

[Spates]

While flawed, the average PER of the last 10 #9 picks is 13.4, their BPM is -1.4, and their average VORP is 1.2... there have been a total of 0 allstars.

Anyone expecting a star with the #9 pick is seriously hoping for a miracle. The chances are so slim.

With all due respect such a take is a negligent use of statistics.

An accurate probability of finding superstardom at 9 should include 9 and all the subsequent picks. Just because teams haven't selected a star doesn't mean that stars aren't available.

[grant101]

Newell is not a center and Wolf doesn't play like one either. I really hope the rumors of our interest are smoke. Would much prefer a bet on Wang or Reynaud. At least I can see the upside with those two.

How does Wolf not play like a C? He rebounds well, is mobile enough to contest shots. Maybe he is not a gritty defender, but neither is Wang or Raynaud.

What Wolf excels at is ball handling. You can invert pick and rolls with a big like him. If he develops his shot he can be an even bigger threat offensively. He is exactly like what we have been doing with Jontay Porter and Kello Olynyk. He is a Darko facilitator big and having him allows us to have more cutting and dynamic motion/flex offense.

Asa Newell is mostly an offensive-minded PF/C. He doesn't rebound enough defensively, and is a bit on the short side, but he is a high effort player. He seems like the most Raptorsy player in my mind being that quiet focused worker type. We do burn through these types like Precious and Mogbo, but Asa seems a bit bigger than the others. He hasn't shown any real passing chops which is a check against him.

Both these guys in theory can stretch the floor, so I think the outline of who they are makes sense for Toronto. I have been behind them for a while now as better value plays than Maluach or Queen who will go higher and not have as high an outcome as their draft slot if they go 9 or sooner.

Wolf is a poor perimeter and post defender, rim deterrent and just a theoretical shooter at this stage. He just doesn’t do (or do well) so many of the things I like from my centers: screen setting, interior finishing, vertical spacing, etc.

The on-ball skills are interesting, but not very useful. He’s a turnover machine, and I find it hard to believe he’s given the same opportunities to freelance in the league because of it. If what we’re dead set on is shooting, then Maxime Raynaud is a better choice. Better percentages on more attempts.

Newell on the other hand is too small to be a center, and has no go standout skills to make up for it IMO. I agree that we’ve been undersized at the position for a long time, so I don’t know why we’d double down on that with Newell. He reminds me of a better shooting, worse rebounding Ed Davis. There is better talent (including at center), even in the 20s

[XTC]

While flawed, the average PER of the last 10 #9 picks is 13.4, their BPM is -1.4, and their average VORP is 1.2... there have been a total of 0 allstars.

Anyone expecting a star with the #9 pick is seriously hoping for a miracle. The chances are so slim.

With all due respect such a take is a negligent use of statistics.

An accurate probability of finding superstardom at 9 should include 9 and all the subsequent picks. Just because teams haven't selected a star doesn't mean that stars aren't available.

Which is why I said its a flawed. Giannis was picked #15, Jokic in the second round, and Shai was the #11 pick. A star can be picked everywhere, but history shows your chances of acquiring a star after #5 is super slim.

[Dalek]

I like will riley and Nembhard. Tbh id prefer only canadians. Invest in them. Use the raptors as a training camp for international play. Theres a Canadian in every draft.

We gotta learn our lesson. Superstars dont wanna play here.

I like both those guys and agree with investing in them. We do need a future big man at some point, tho'.

[Dalek]

Newell is not a center and Wolf doesn't play like one either. I really hope the rumors of our interest are smoke. Would much prefer a bet on Wang or Reynaud. At least I can see the upside with those two.

How does Wolf not play like a C? He rebounds well, is mobile enough to contest shots. Maybe he is not a gritty defender, but neither is Wang or Raynaud.

What Wolf excels at is ball handling. You can invert pick and rolls with a big like him. If he develops his shot he can be an even bigger threat offensively. He is exactly like what we have been doing with Jontay Porter and Kello Olynyk. He is a Darko facilitator big and having him allows us to have more cutting and dynamic motion/flex offense.

Asa Newell is mostly an offensive-minded PF/C. He doesn't rebound enough defensively, and is a bit on the short side, but he is a high effort player. He seems like the most Raptorsy player in my mind being that quiet focused worker type. We do burn through these types like Precious and Mogbo, but Asa seems a bit bigger than the others. He hasn't shown any real passing chops which is a check against him.

Both these guys in theory can stretch the floor, so I think the outline of who they are makes sense for Toronto. I have been behind them for a while now as better value plays than Maluach or Queen who will go higher and not have as high an outcome as their draft slot if they go 9 or sooner.

Wolf is a poor perimeter and post defender, rim deterrent and just a theoretical shooter at this stage. He just doesn’t do (or do well) so many of the things I like from my centers: screen setting, interior finishing, vertical spacing, etc.

The on-ball skills are interesting, but not very useful. He’s a turnover machine, and I find it hard to believe he’s given the same opportunities to freelance in the league because of it. If what we’re dead set on is shooting, then Maxime Raynaud is a better choice. Better percentages on more attempts.

Newell on the other hand is too small to be a center, and has no go standout skills to make up for it IMO. I agree that we’ve been undersized at the position for a long time, so I don’t know why we’d double down on that with Newell. He reminds me of a better shooting, worse rebounding Ed Davis. There is better talent (including at center), even in the 20s

Beringer or Sorber sound like the type of big you prefer and I can see the case for defense but also you run into spacing issues like we had with Orlando Robinson.

I do think Danny Wolf has good feet to cover some smaller players and he averaged 1.4 blocks which was near the top in his conference. Plus, his rebounding is above average. Maybe no elite tools, but he is a normal back-up big.

I think the thing which sway me with Wolf is versatility. He went from a very traditional big man role at Yale to coming over to the Big 10 and playing in a challenging two big alignment in Michigan as the defacto PG.

He did this all at age 20 and it worked for Michigan. In a scaled back role (obviously he is not going to run point) and more shooting reps, you have a dynamic player. Listen to Wolf, you hear a very articulate guy who is high IQ.

Watch on YouTube

;t=1s&ab_channel=CyroAsseo

Ultimately, I don't think he gets drafted at 9, but in the mid-first range he is great value. If the NBA is made up of outliers, having a seven footer who can create shots and handle like Wolf fits the outlier template. He just plays with a ton of creativity and tends to win wherever he goes including the Israeli team (silver in U20 Euro championship), Yale (won their conference in 2024) and Michigan (won their conference in 2025).

[WuTang_CMB]

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The known list of players to have worked out with the Raptors:

TJ Bamba, Oregon
Johni Broome, Auburn
Lamont Butler, Kentucky
L.J. Cryer, Houston
Dain Dainja, Memphis
Egor Demin, BYU
RJ Felton, East Carolina
Dajuan Harris Jr., Kansas
Chucky Hepburn, Louisville
Ryan Nembhard, Gonzaga
Clifford Omoruyi, Alabama
Tahaad Pettiford, Auburn
Jase Richardson, Michigan State
Aaron Scott, St. John's
Alex Toohey, Sydney Kings (NBL)
Trey Townsend, Arizona
Nolan Traoré, Saint-Quentin (France)
Jamir Watkins, Florida State
Hansen Yang, Qingdao (China)

[WuTang_CMB]

It's obvious why Raps like Wolf knowing Darko is their head coach. Darko wants high processing big men that have foundational skills.

and they like his analytics

gotta trade back

[raptor jesus]

It's obvious why Raps like Wolf knowing Darko is their head coach. Darko wants high processing big men that have foundational skills.

and they like his analytics

gotta trade back

I'm really not sold that's the type of player Wolf is ("high processing big"). I was totally blown away by Wolf's highlights, but when watching his full games, I was struck by how many poor decisions he makes - that whopping 21.5 TOV% is very real.

[DG88]

Ace Bailey stock dropping.

Bailey losing momentum after refusing to visit, initially unsatisfied with his search for a proven pathway to development. However, Bailey is scheduled to work out in Philadelphia at the end of this week, and we'll see if he's able to sway the tides in his favor.
The feedback from his interviews at the draft combine in Chicago was not all that positive, with some teams expressing concern about his lack of preparation and focus. NBA executives say Bailey has been polarizing in internal front-office conversations because of questions about his feel for the game and lack of polish, creating a wider draft range than initially anticipated.

Bailey's predraft workout strategy has perplexed some observers, as he has yet to conduct a single known workout to date, having declined invitations from several teams within his draft range. Sources say Bailey's camp has informed interested teams that they believe he is a top-3 player in the draft, but also seeks a clear pathway to stardom, perhaps feeling comfortable that a team will trade up to get him at Nos. 3 or 4, should he drop.

Again not surprised. He's been an obvious fall candidate for me.

[Yallbecrazy]

Ace Bailey stock dropping.

Bailey losing momentum after refusing to visit, initially unsatisfied with his search for a proven pathway to development. However, Bailey is scheduled to work out in Philadelphia at the end of this week, and we'll see if he's able to sway the tides in his favor.
The feedback from his interviews at the draft combine in Chicago was not all that positive, with some teams expressing concern about his lack of preparation and focus. NBA executives say Bailey has been polarizing in internal front-office conversations because of questions about his feel for the game and lack of polish, creating a wider draft range than initially anticipated.

Bailey's predraft workout strategy has perplexed some observers, as he has yet to conduct a single known workout to date, having declined invitations from several teams within his draft range. Sources say Bailey's camp has informed interested teams that they believe he is a top-3 player in the draft, but also seeks a clear pathway to stardom, perhaps feeling comfortable that a team will trade up to get him at Nos. 3 or 4, should he drop.

Again not surprised. He's been an obvious fall candidate for me.

Remember draft thread #3? A bunch of guys said he's terribly overrated and then he had a good 3 game stretch and a bunch of people started salivating and "dunking" on everyone saying how it was confirmed he would be a star and some saying he's better than Flagg.

[MEDIC]

Ace Bailey stock dropping.

Bailey losing momentum after refusing to visit, initially unsatisfied with his search for a proven pathway to development. However, Bailey is scheduled to work out in Philadelphia at the end of this week, and we'll see if he's able to sway the tides in his favor.
The feedback from his interviews at the draft combine in Chicago was not all that positive, with some teams expressing concern about his lack of preparation and focus. NBA executives say Bailey has been polarizing in internal front-office conversations because of questions about his feel for the game and lack of polish, creating a wider draft range than initially anticipated.

Bailey's predraft workout strategy has perplexed some observers, as he has yet to conduct a single known workout to date, having declined invitations from several teams within his draft range. Sources say Bailey's camp has informed interested teams that they believe he is a top-3 player in the draft, but also seeks a clear pathway to stardom, perhaps feeling comfortable that a team will trade up to get him at Nos. 3 or 4, should he drop.

Again not surprised. He's been an obvious fall candidate for me.

Bailey is a tough one to take in the top 5. High risk.

He is worth a gamble at 8+ though. He could be a complete bust or he could mature psychologically & physically 2 seasons from now & become an allstar.

[DG88]

We sent scouts to watch Traore. Wouldn't be surprised if we took him 9th.

[RaptorPride]

So updated mock based on intel:

1. Cooper (Dallas)
2. Dylan (SAS)
3. VJ (Philly) .. assuming no trade down
4. Tre (Char)
5. Ace (Utah)
6. KM (Wash)
7. Fears (NO)
8. Noa (BRK)

Kon drops to 9

I would love Kon at 9

[Psubs]

We sent scouts to watch Traore. Wouldn't be surprised if we took him 9th.

Trade should be made with Atlanta for #13 and 22, with the Hawks looking at drafting Queen if Maluach is taken. Either would be good paired with Okongwu. Queen PF - Okongwu C or Okongwu PF - Maluach C.

Traore at #13. Trade Agbaji and #39 for as high a 1st pick you can get. With #22 and another 1st pick, get Bryant and Yang (or Raynaud or Markovic or Kalkbrenner)

[TimeForChange]

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