Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

[raptor21_85]

WHat if we win the lottery??? wed have to pick Davis, but that wont the answer since our priorities are the PG and SF positions.... what should we do in that scenario

[ATLTimekeeper]

And be a top player?
No you cannot; hopefully for him he follows the same "diet"(cough) as Wade to double his body size

Dude, he's not skinny. He's not small for his position. He's listed at 228. Last night the broadcasters were saying he weighed 235. If he's skinny. Then most of the wings in the league are anorexic, because that's exceptional size. If you don't want to go by listings (where he's heavier than Barnes as I've pointing out), go by your eyes. If he getting pushed around? No! Is he rebounding in traffic? Yes! Is he scoring in the paint? Yes! He's really strong for an 18 year old. If you want to call him wiry, fine. Kevin Garnett is wiry. I'll take that over muscle definition any day (which I think is probably what you're looking at). Knock his jump shot all you want, but his size is great. Andre Iguodala, generally considered one of the best wing defenders in the game, is listed at 6'6 and 217 pounds.

You do see on court out there, dont you?
Being 228 doesnt mean that he is a big and physical kid when body fat comes into play.

Wade is 220;and who has the bigger and stronger body between the two?

So he's wiry with a lot of body fat? I give up.

[ash_k]

talk to a nutritionist about skinny-fat; you might learn a thing or 2 about the human body

[ATLTimekeeper]

talk to a nutritionist about skinny-fat; you might learn a thing or 2 about the human body

I gave my argument. He's not geting pushed around. He plays mostly inside on offense and scores at a decent percentage. He doesn't get moved on post-ups. He doesn't get muscled on the perimeter. He's not weak. He's not slim for a wing player. Find me several examples of where he was overwhelmed physically this year and maybe I'll start to consider your argument.

[theocratic_n'_nature]

WHat if we win the lottery??? wed have to pick Davis, but that wont the answer since our priorities are the PG and SF positions.... what should we do in that scenario

Easy. Pick Drummond. Why? Because even if he sucks the next year, he'll still be seen as a franchise-level talent for the first 3 years of his rookie contract. Then if Bargs and Val are effective enough defensively and offensively, we trade Drummond (former #1 or 2) plus our 2013 pick for Shabazz Muhammed.

With our big 3 then SF and PG positions become glue guys that can defend and hit the open shot.

[TheMailMan3232]

Who is this guy in here keep hating on MKG?? lol... MKG killed Barnes in the match up early in the season..

[Rapsfan07]

WHat if we win the lottery??? wed have to pick Davis, but that wont the answer since our priorities are the PG and SF positions.... what should we do in that scenario

Easy. Pick Drummond. Why? Because even if he sucks the next year, he'll still be seen as a franchise-level talent for the first 3 years of his rookie contract. Then if Bargs and Val are effective enough defensively and offensively, we trade Drummond (former #1 or 2) plus our 2013 pick for Shabazz Muhammed.

With our big 3 then SF and PG positions become glue guys that can defend and hit the open shot.

We'd take Anthony Davis. If the "potential tag" is the argument being used, Davis has shown more and will likely be easier to move (if we want..not sure why we would but yeah).

I'm not sure if getting AD is the best thing for us. It's hard so say what AD will be at the next level since right now he looks like a defense only type of guy. Our team would likely need another overhaul to get pieces that fit and such...I'm not sure.

[ash_k]

talk to a nutritionist about skinny-fat; you might learn a thing or 2 about the human body

I gave my argument. He's not geting pushed around. He plays mostly inside on offense and scores at a decent percentage. He doesn't get moved on post-ups. He doesn't get muscled on the perimeter. He's not weak. He's not slim for a wing player. Find me several examples of where he was overwhelmed physically this year and maybe I'll start to consider your argument.

But it wont be facing too many players from Mississippi State at the next level if you know what I mean

[ATLTimekeeper]

talk to a nutritionist about skinny-fat; you might learn a thing or 2 about the human body

I gave my argument. He's not geting pushed around. He plays mostly inside on offense and scores at a decent percentage. He doesn't get moved on post-ups. He doesn't get muscled on the perimeter. He's not weak. He's not slim for a wing player. Find me several examples of where he was overwhelmed physically this year and maybe I'll start to consider your argument.

But it wont be facing too many players from Mississippi State at the next level if you know what I mean

[ATLTimekeeper]

talk to a nutritionist about skinny-fat; you might learn a thing or 2 about the human body

I gave my argument. He's not geting pushed around. He plays mostly inside on offense and scores at a decent percentage. He doesn't get moved on post-ups. He doesn't get muscled on the perimeter. He's not weak. He's not slim for a wing player. Find me several examples of where he was overwhelmed physically this year and maybe I'll start to consider your argument.

But it wont be facing too many players from Mississippi State at the next level if you know what I mean

Ha ha ha. I know what you mean, you have a slippery argument and it's losing steam. Go find some examples where scouts/draft sites have called him weak or skinny.

[Reignman]

WHat if we win the lottery??? wed have to pick Davis, but that wont the answer since our priorities are the PG and SF positions.... what should we do in that scenario

Easy. Pick Drummond. Why? Because even if he sucks the next year, he'll still be seen as a franchise-level talent for the first 3 years of his rookie contract. Then if Bargs and Val are effective enough defensively and offensively, we trade Drummond (former #1 or 2) plus our 2013 pick for Shabazz Muhammed.

With our big 3 then SF and PG positions become glue guys that can defend and hit the open shot.

LOL, you'd really pick Drummond with the #1? WTF?

- The easy decision is to take the clear cut best player from this class who looks like a defensive monster, Anthony Davis

- Then, you put him next to another blue chipper in J Val who will man the C spot

- Then, you focus all of your attention on developing those two both offensively and defensively

- Then, you laugh all the way to the bank as your frontcourt scares the ish out of 90% of teams in the league

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

LOL, you'd really pick Drummond with the #1? WTF?

- The easy decision is to take the clear cut best player from this class who looks like a defensive monster, Anthony Davis

- Then, you put him next to another blue chipper in J Val who will man the C spot

- Then, you focus all of your attention on developing those two both offensively and defensively

- Then, you laugh all the way to the bank as your frontcourt scares the ish out of 90% of teams in the league

Yup, and offensively, you surround those two with good shooting out of the PG, SG, and SF spots, and with a PG who can execute P'n'R to perfection.

[ash_k]

Ha ha ha. I know what you mean, you have a slippery argument and it's losing steam. Go find some examples where scouts/draft sites have called him weak or skinny.

If your argument is so strong, then respond to my question earlier to you

Wade is 220; who has the bigger and stronger body between the two?

or Look at Paul George the man is listed at 210 ; Who looks bigger and stronger on the court?

Edit:
Dont just rely on scouting reports, you can see things with your owns eyes.
Those scouts have been wrong many times

[theocratic_n'_nature]

WHat if we win the lottery??? wed have to pick Davis, but that wont the answer since our priorities are the PG and SF positions.... what should we do in that scenario

Easy. Pick Drummond. Why? Because even if he sucks the next year, he'll still be seen as a franchise-level talent for the first 3 years of his rookie contract. Then if Bargs and Val are effective enough defensively and offensively, we trade Drummond (former #1 or 2) plus our 2013 pick for Shabazz Muhammed.

With our big 3 then SF and PG positions become glue guys that can defend and hit the open shot.

We'd take Anthony Davis. If the "potential tag" is the argument being used, Davis has shown more and will likely be easier to move (if we want..not sure why we would but yeah).

I'm not sure if getting AD is the best thing for us. It's hard so say what AD will be at the next level since right now he looks like a defense only type of guy. Our team would likely need another overhaul to get pieces that fit and such...I'm not sure.

Imo, if the strategy I mentioned is being used, Davis is not the one to pick for several reasons (and not because I don't think he won't be good - which I think he'll be at the very least decent).

For starters, if Davis doesn't blow up he doesn't have (or is not seen as having) the physical attributes to be dominant - remember, what made KG (who Davis' body type resembles) so dominant was his insane intensity level in which scouts have said that while Davis has a good motor is not on the level that KG's intensity level propelled him to be (that intensity distinction is given to MKG). Therefore, I think the chances we'd be able to trade him (plus the pick) the following year for Muhammed would be slim at best, simply because other rival GMs would only see him as a probable 2nd tier player.

Where as if Drummond doesn't do well, because of his physical gifts and various skills, GM's will still see him as someone that can be a top 2 center in the league (to which they have the answer) and will take a shot at him (hedging against him busting with an additional 2013 pick). Simply put, in this scenario where neither would be great off the bat, Drummond is seen as having the higher potential to be the next big thing and would be easily worth the risk, where as Davis might be worth the risk but only to fewer GM's.

Second, if Drummond blows up and is dominant the way his body type affords that opportunity, you keep him, thank your lucky stars we have the next Dwight Howard and part ways with either Val (most likely) or Bargs and our 2013 and net us an all-star level swing. I think we can both agree that if both Davis and Drummond reach their full potential, you take Drummond hands down every time. This is the perception that GM's would most likely have and that's why Drummmond is the logical choice because even if Drummond busts that first year, he'd still have the widely perceived value of a DOMINANT franchise level player. With Davis, if he busts that first year, unlikely has that perceived value.

IMO, the only way this plan doesn't succeed is if Drummond is seen as having a chronic injury, and even then, there will be some GM's willing to take the chance (look at Oden) the rate of return though will not be as good as was planned.

[theocratic_n'_nature]

WHat if we win the lottery??? wed have to pick Davis, but that wont the answer since our priorities are the PG and SF positions.... what should we do in that scenario

Easy. Pick Drummond. Why? Because even if he sucks the next year, he'll still be seen as a franchise-level talent for the first 3 years of his rookie contract. Then if Bargs and Val are effective enough defensively and offensively, we trade Drummond (former #1 or 2) plus our 2013 pick for Shabazz Muhammed.

With our big 3 then SF and PG positions become glue guys that can defend and hit the open shot.

LOL, you'd really pick Drummond with the #1? WTF?

- The easy decision is to take the clear cut best player from this class who looks like a defensive monster, Anthony Davis

- Then, you put him next to another blue chipper in J Val who will man the C spot

- Then, you focus all of your attention on developing those two both offensively and defensively

- Then, you laugh all the way to the bank as your frontcourt scares the ish out of 90% of teams in the league

The goal is not the front court (Val and Bargs, if he continues on his trajectory) is good enough. The GOAL is a franchise 2 guard. Please re-read the strategy.

Edit* btw, do you REALLY wanna roll with 2 skinny front court players in a 7 game playoff series??

[ATLTimekeeper]

Ha ha ha. I know what you mean, you have a slippery argument and it's losing steam. Go find some examples where scouts/draft sites have called him weak or skinny.

If your argument is so strong, then respond to my question earlier to you

Wade is 220; who has the bigger and stronger body between the two?

or Look at Paul George the man is listed at 210 ; Who looks bigger and stronger on the court?

Edit:
Dont just rely on scouting reports, you can see things with your owns eyes.
Those scouts have been wrong many times

I can honestly say that Dwayne Wade is stronger than Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Paul George is not. Dwayne Wade is also 6"4 and 220. Kidd-Gilchrist is 6"6 and 228. Dwayne Wade is also a 30 year old man, and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is an 18 year old boy. I brought up weight to suggest he isn't skinny, you countered with "wiry." I said, fine. Then you said he had too much fat. I said, you can't be wiry and be considered fat, (as "wiry" implies musculature and strength.) You said "skinny-fat" and check with a nutritionist, at which point I mentally checked-out from having a serious debate with you. Then I tried to help your own argument out by suggesting some anecdotal evidence. You didn't provide any. So then I suggested you find some corroborating opinion from an expert. You didn't provide any. I haven't heard anyone else suggest he's skinny and weak for his position and age, and I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it myself, so I assume you are out on an island.

[ash_k]

Never said "he had too much fat"

Was tryin to open you eyes about Body weight; being 228 doesnt mean you are strong.

With your own eyes, you can clearly see Wade is bigger and stronger than MKG but again Wade is 220 vs 228.

Same for George with your own eyes, you can clearly see he is bigger than MKG and again Paul George is listed at 210 vs MKG 228.

Looking at MKG during games; he has narrow shoulders too, looks very lanky out there

[ty123]

I don't think Anthony Davis is a "clear cut #1". I think MKG will be the better pro.

[Reignman]

LOL, you'd really pick Drummond with the #1? WTF?

- The easy decision is to take the clear cut best player from this class who looks like a defensive monster, Anthony Davis

- Then, you put him next to another blue chipper in J Val who will man the C spot

- Then, you focus all of your attention on developing those two both offensively and defensively

- Then, you laugh all the way to the bank as your frontcourt scares the ish out of 90% of teams in the league

The goal is not the front court (Val and Bargs, if he continues on his trajectory) is good enough. The GOAL is a franchise 2 guard. Please re-read the strategy.

Edit* btw, do you REALLY wanna roll with 2 skinny front court players in a 7 game playoff series??

The goal is to put the best talent on the floor and A Davis is the best talent from this draft.

Secondly, if J Val and A Davis can reach their potential on the defensive end then you arguably could have the best defensive front court in the NBA. And yes, I'd love to roll with one of the best defensive frontcourts in the playoffs, that's an easy decision. Plus, they won't be skinny forever and we're not going to compete overnight. There's going to be time for them to get bigger, better and stronger.

Here's the thing, if you can't have a Lebron, Kobe or Wade (we can't and their doesn't seem to be one in this draft) then you go the other way and put in a defensive front court that can make their life a living hell.

Then you consolidate the rest of your assets and try and bring in your own tier 2 perimeter players.

Picking Drummond would be silly, especially based on the premise that you already think AD will fail.

[Reignman]

I don't think Anthony Davis is a "clear cut #1". I think MKG will be the better pro.

Really, I don't think you can make a case for anyone else as the #1 so it is clear cut.

I'm also pretty sure Barnes will go ahead of MKG.

If you want to project based on peripherals (size, skill, athleticism) then the only guys that look to have more potential at the #1 are Drummond and PJ3 but their on-court performances have been less than desireable.