Raps 2020 Picks (Prospect Watch, Update: Vecenie Mock Released)

[HeadtopChunes]

That's your opinion which I disagree with. NBADraft.net is a legit site just as legit as the other sites that you mentioned. So you stick to what you know and I'll do the same, pal.

It is more about the accuracy with the draft result years after years. There was site comparing between websites after players were drafted.

Fair enough. The sites you listed have drawbacks as well.

Tankathon has Tyrell Terry (Stanford) & Tyler Bey (Colorado) projected in the first round while CJ Elleby (Washington State) is better than both of those players.

The Stepien and NBAScoutingLive don't even have a 2020 mock draft up.

NBADraftRoom doesn't even have certified first round pick Isaiah Stewart (Washington) listed as a first round pick, they have him projected as a second round pick.

My go to NBADraft sites are: NBADraft.net (who has projections and analysis for NBA drafts 2 years in advance) and DraftExpress. Draft Express just recently sold out to ESPN. I would be interesting in looking at that site you mentioned that compares NBA draft sites if you have a link to it. Peace

As far as projecting where guys are likely to be drafted only ESPN and The Athletic have any actual sources, every other site is just guesswork and projections. Not to say these sites are useless but not really what I'd use for draft range projections.

[Indeed]

Ya, he'd be a nice #58 lotto ticket.

I like his size and tools (7'3 winspan I think) plus shooting potential. I remember reading a red flag somewhere though either about his effort or defense. Can anyone confirm?

It appears to be regarding his IQ and decision making not his motor, it appears he picked up basketball pretty late starting in 2014

Eboua’s challenges have changed quite a bit since he first arrived in the Italian capital in the summer of 2015. Back then, he left his family, including an older brother and two younger sisters, to come to Europe – without speaking Italian or English. Eboua said he had not even seen an airport before his journey to Italy.

...

The move to Italy also meant a major change in his commitment to basketball. He had only learned about basketball about a year before coming to Italy and said he was practicing only about five or six times a month. That quickly became two practices a day in Rome.

Another option is Amar Sylla, who has a 7'2 wingspan, and quick on his feet. Some project him to be drafted much earlier than Eboua, while both of them are raw.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

It is more about the accuracy with the draft result years after years. There was site comparing between websites after players were drafted.

Fair enough. The sites you listed have drawbacks as well.

Tankathon has Tyrell Terry (Stanford) & Tyler Bey (Colorado) projected in the first round while CJ Elleby (Washington State) is better than both of those players.

The Stepien and NBAScoutingLive don't even have a 2020 mock draft up.

NBADraftRoom doesn't even have certified first round pick Isaiah Stewart (Washington) listed as a first round pick, they have him projected as a second round pick.

My go to NBADraft sites are: NBADraft.net (who has projections and analysis for NBA drafts 2 years in advance) and DraftExpress. Draft Express just recently sold out to ESPN. I would be interesting in looking at that site you mentioned that compares NBA draft sites if you have a link to it. Peace

As far as projecting where guys are likely to be drafted only ESPN and The Athletic have any actual sources, every other site is just guesswork and projections. Not to say these sites are useless but not really what I'd use for draft range projections.

All reputable NBA Draft sites have NBA sources and insiders. Both ESPN and The Athletic guess just as much as many other sites even with all of their inside information. They get used by teams to throw other teams off of prospects that they might be wanting to draft or are truly interested in drafting. DraftExpress was the best NBA Draft site in my mind but ESPN bought them out last year and now they charge for information that used to be free.

Watch on YouTube

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Watch on YouTube

[HeadtopChunes]

I like his size and tools (7'3 winspan I think) plus shooting potential. I remember reading a red flag somewhere though either about his effort or defense. Can anyone confirm?

It appears to be regarding his IQ and decision making not his motor, it appears he picked up basketball pretty late starting in 2014

Eboua’s challenges have changed quite a bit since he first arrived in the Italian capital in the summer of 2015. Back then, he left his family, including an older brother and two younger sisters, to come to Europe – without speaking Italian or English. Eboua said he had not even seen an airport before his journey to Italy.

...

The move to Italy also meant a major change in his commitment to basketball. He had only learned about basketball about a year before coming to Italy and said he was practicing only about five or six times a month. That quickly became two practices a day in Rome.

Another option is Amar Sylla, who has a 7'2 wingspan, and quick on his feet. Some project him to be drafted much earlier than Eboua, while both of them are raw.

Sylla is not declaring this year it appears

Read on Twitter

[Indeed]

It is more about the accuracy with the draft result years after years. There was site comparing between websites after players were drafted.

Fair enough. The sites you listed have drawbacks as well.

Tankathon has Tyrell Terry (Stanford) & Tyler Bey (Colorado) projected in the first round while CJ Elleby (Washington State) is better than both of those players.

The Stepien and NBAScoutingLive don't even have a 2020 mock draft up.

NBADraftRoom doesn't even have certified first round pick Isaiah Stewart (Washington) listed as a first round pick, they have him projected as a second round pick.

My go to NBADraft sites are: NBADraft.net (who has projections and analysis for NBA drafts 2 years in advance) and DraftExpress. Draft Express just recently sold out to ESPN. I would be interesting in looking at that site you mentioned that compares NBA draft sites if you have a link to it. Peace

As far as projecting where guys are likely to be drafted only ESPN and The Athletic have any actual sources, every other site is just guesswork and projections. Not to say these sites are useless but not really what I'd use for draft range projections.

I am not even sure ESPN and Athletic would have guessed we drafted Siakam. There is simply no way to know who the teams are picking, all I understand is that we can rank the talent and see who would be available by then. Both ESPN (previously Draft Express) and Athletic are good, while the others have free scouting report in detail.

[HeadtopChunes]

Fair enough. The sites you listed have drawbacks as well.

Tankathon has Tyrell Terry (Stanford) & Tyler Bey (Colorado) projected in the first round while CJ Elleby (Washington State) is better than both of those players.

The Stepien and NBAScoutingLive don't even have a 2020 mock draft up.

NBADraftRoom doesn't even have certified first round pick Isaiah Stewart (Washington) listed as a first round pick, they have him projected as a second round pick.

My go to NBADraft sites are: NBADraft.net (who has projections and analysis for NBA drafts 2 years in advance) and DraftExpress. Draft Express just recently sold out to ESPN. I would be interesting in looking at that site you mentioned that compares NBA draft sites if you have a link to it. Peace

As far as projecting where guys are likely to be drafted only ESPN and The Athletic have any actual sources, every other site is just guesswork and projections. Not to say these sites are useless but not really what I'd use for draft range projections.

All reputable NBA Draft sites have NBA sources and insiders. Both ESPN and The Athletic guess just as much as many other sites even with all of their inside information. They get used by teams to throw other teams off of prospects that they might be wanting to draft or are truly interested in drafting. DraftExpress was the best NBA Draft site in my mind but ESPN bought them out last year and now they charge for information that used to be free.

I highly doubt that, Athletic and Draftexpress/ESPN have been the most accurate mocks the last couple years, draftnet, tanktathon etc have been way off and don't claim any sources like the other 2 do.

DX is ESPN now, but yeah they are charging for some dumb reason. Although you can see most of their draft content for free if you just go on the Australian ESPN site

[HeadtopChunes]

Fair enough. The sites you listed have drawbacks as well.

Tankathon has Tyrell Terry (Stanford) & Tyler Bey (Colorado) projected in the first round while CJ Elleby (Washington State) is better than both of those players.

The Stepien and NBAScoutingLive don't even have a 2020 mock draft up.

NBADraftRoom doesn't even have certified first round pick Isaiah Stewart (Washington) listed as a first round pick, they have him projected as a second round pick.

My go to NBADraft sites are: NBADraft.net (who has projections and analysis for NBA drafts 2 years in advance) and DraftExpress. Draft Express just recently sold out to ESPN. I would be interesting in looking at that site you mentioned that compares NBA draft sites if you have a link to it. Peace

As far as projecting where guys are likely to be drafted only ESPN and The Athletic have any actual sources, every other site is just guesswork and projections. Not to say these sites are useless but not really what I'd use for draft range projections.

I am not even sure ESPN and Athletic would have guessed we drafted Siakam. There is simply no way to know who the teams are picking, all I understand is that we can rank the talent and see who would be available by then. Both ESPN (previously Draft Express) and Athletic are good, while the others have free scouting report in detail.

I am not saying they know exactly who's gonna draft who, the draft is a crapshoot and i doubt any mock draft ever surpasses like 70% accuracy. Still if i had to tier it in terms of whats probably correct, i'd put them in the first tier with Bleacher Report and SI in the next tier and draftnet in the bottom tier.

[Dalek]

Dalek any good international prospects around our range?

I think there a lot of International prospects which people have covered (Bolmara, Maledon, Eboua). I really like Mannion but it is hard to call him an international playing so much in the US. I have one guy that screams being a Masai pick:

Yves Pon - might be the Masai pick that no one expects (I only waited until he confirmed that he would stay in the draft). He played with Tennessee and as a Junior went from being just a high energy defender to a shooting threes and being a more diverse scorer. The Flying Frenchman is an absolute monster on defense. He covers a ton of ground and can probably play a bit of C ala PJ Tucker once he gets into the NBA. Challenge is that this guy barely speaks English, at least I haven't seen him do too many interviews. Need a multi-lingual guy like Serge or Siakam to bring him along, but his ability to just play his role well really shows how he doesn't need anything called for him to be effective. Really reminds me of Montrezl Harrell coming out of college with that crazy motor and aggression.

Watch on YouTube

“Pons is the best athlete and the best defender in this entire 2020 NBA mock draft class,” Dauster wrote. “You often hear things like ‘he can guard all five positions’ which tends to be an exaggeration. Not for Pons. He can, quite literally, guard any point guard, any center and anyone in between. He can play the four, and at times even the five, in small-ball lineups in the NBA to great effect. What makes him even more intriguing is that he shot 42 percent on unguarded catch-and-shoot threes. I think this is the most important number when it comes to his three-point shooting, because these are the face-up, step-in threes that he’ll be shooting at the next level.”

https://www.rockytopinsider.com/2020/04/15/analyst-yves-pons-is-best-athlete-and-best-defender-in-nba-draft/

Maybe you look at Precious Achiuwa and Patrick Williams who are similar, but this guy knows his role really well.

[LoveMyRaps]

Andrew Nembhard just declared for the draft.
He'll still be maintaining his college eligibility in case he goes undrafted. (I believe the same thing happened last year)
I didn't like what I saw from him this season, but MAYYYBEE Nurse gets Masai to draft him in the second round?

I think he should stay in college honestly, coming out now would be a mistake for him

It's odd that he's even testing waters. Returning to the Gators seems like a no-brainer to me.

[LoveMyRaps]

Jahmius Ramsey declared for the draft today.
19 years old and considered the best defender in the draft.
Expected to be a late first round pick. Maybe we pick him up with our first rounder?

Where did you get best defender in the draft? Hes a projected negative on D

Projected negative on D? Damn. I don't think that's a fair assessment. I also don't think my initial statement about him being the best defender in the draft is accurate either but Ramsey has a lot of defensive potential. Reminds me of TD, hard nosed defender with the strength & measurements to excel on the defensive end but just needs to be put in the right system to improve his defensive discipline/instincts.

This clip does him some justice:

Read on Twitter

[HeadtopChunes]

Jahmius Ramsey declared for the draft today.
19 years old and considered the best defender in the draft.
Expected to be a late first round pick. Maybe we pick him up with our first rounder?

Where did you get best defender in the draft? Hes a projected negative on D

Projected negative on D? Damn. I don't think that's a fair assessment. I also don't think my initial statement about him being the best defender in the draft is accurate either but Ramsey has a lot of defensive potential. Reminds me of TD, hard nosed defender with the strength & measurements to excel on the defensive end but just needs to be put in the right system to improve his defensive discipline/instincts.

This clip does him some justice:

Read on Twitter

He's not hopeless but he's got a lot of awareness and footwork issues. Good defensive stats though stats and blocks rate both over 2%.

He wasn't the best defender on his team, (probably not even top 3).

Here's a picture of his defensive synergy chart.

Spoiler:

Source w/ much more detail about his game https://www.thestepien.com/2020/03/09/jahmius-ramsey-scouting-report/

Bad off-ball defenders are usually negatives (see Norman Powell), Ramsey has the same issue but without Norm's good point of attack defense at this stage.

As for the clip, he's bullying some high school kids it looks impressive but not really something I'd use for NBA projection lol.

[Psubs]

He's like the SG version of Rudy Gay.

[Dalek]

Another video to highlight Yves Pons. This is pretty much the whole Tennesee - Kansas game.

Pons matched up with Udoka Aziubuke giving up size and weight but gave him trouble. Udoka got 18 and 11 and 4 blocks while Pons got 24 - 7 and 3 blocks though he seemed to block more.

You will see his awesome switching D on Buke, to Dotson. You can see why he was DPOY of the SEC.

Watch on YouTube

[casual_raps_fan]

His game is far better rounded than Terry though. Terry doesn't have the ball handling that you would expect from a player his size AND you're probably going to have to hide him on defence. Elleby's ball handling is fine for a player his size/position and he has good steal block statistics along with decent size which gives him potential to be an above average defender.

I have interest in Terry but I'm having a hard time seeing him contributing enough on offence to makeup for what he doesn't bring.

Well, I think a handle is one of the easier things to improve and Terry already has some solid vision/passing skills. I doubt he's ever a true point but I think he can bring value as a combo. I like Terry as a college defender, but he will definitely be a NBA negative until he can put on some strength. Given the potentially elite shooting, okay ball-handling, and potential to be a net 0 defender in a couple of years I like what Terry can become as a high-end rotation player.

Like I mentioned earlier with Elleby, jack of all trades college types don't tend to translate well on to NBA teams. His best skill is shooting but he didn't do that well and nothing else about his game stands out to me, so what's the point in playing him if he doesn't make a meaningful impact on either side of the court? Even if Terry is a negative defender in the NBA, he can at least provide significant offensive impact. For example, Seth Curry was 54th in the league in OPIPM this year, ahead of guys like Lou Will, Joel Embiid, Derozan etc.) It's not sexy but there's definitely value to that type of player.

You bring up a lot of good points. I'd like to reposition my stance that I would prefer not grabbing either of them.

Regards to Elleby, after thinking it through, you're right. He has a low floor since he doesn't have a skill that's ready for the NBA. He has potential to be a rotational level player but is more likely to bust. At the NBA level, he will be more style than substance.

Terry is still interesting but his floor is pretty low and his ceiling is barely a starter. He'd have to become an absolute beast at shooting and off ball movement for him to reach that point and it's probably unlikely. He seems like the opposite of a Raptors draft selection.

[casual_raps_fan]

Terry is close to Stephen Curry at Davidson. If he would've stayed for his sophomore season he'd be putting up over 20 ppg in a stronger conference.



Raptors put all the time in development into Norm and loyalty. He'll be able to start at SG and be better defensively and 75% cheaper than say Donovan Mitchell.

The thing is norm has a player option in 2021 and if he keeps playing like he did this season then he's going to be looking for a payday. If we are going all on on 2021 then I dont think we can retain norm and sign another free agent.

We would have some sort of rights to offer him a contract over the cap. Hopefully it's conveyed to him that they have to focus on Giannis first. After that's settled, can offer him something. Let's hope Giannis doesn't pull a Kawhi and milk it.

I can understand Kyle waiting for Giannis to make his decision but do you really think Norm would play that game? He'll be looking for his big payday and unless he has locked down the starting shooting guard spot on the Raptors, he will most likely immediately take the best looking offer that comes his way.

The risk could be worth it but it's not unlikely that he would just walk.

edit: Also I don't know how I feel about a Norm and Fred starting backcourt. Not bad but it definitely lacks playmaking.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

His game is far better rounded than Terry though. Terry doesn't have the ball handling that you would expect from a player his size AND you're probably going to have to hide him on defence. Elleby's ball handling is fine for a player his size/position and he has good steal block statistics along with decent size which gives him potential to be an above average defender.

I have interest in Terry but I'm having a hard time seeing him contributing enough on offence to makeup for what he doesn't bring.

Well, I think a handle is one of the easier things to improve and Terry already has some solid vision/passing skills. I doubt he's ever a true point but I think he can bring value as a combo. I like Terry as a college defender, but he will definitely be a NBA negative until he can put on some strength. Given the potentially elite shooting, okay ball-handling, and potential to be a net 0 defender in a couple of years I like what Terry can become as a high-end rotation player.

Like I mentioned earlier with Elleby, jack of all trades college types don't tend to translate well on to NBA teams. His best skill is shooting but he didn't do that well and nothing else about his game stands out to me, so what's the point in playing him if he doesn't make a meaningful impact on either side of the court? Even if Terry is a negative defender in the NBA, he can at least provide significant offensive impact. For example, Seth Curry was 54th in the league in OPIPM this year, ahead of guys like Lou Will, Joel Embiid, Derozan etc.) It's not sexy but there's definitely value to that type of player.

You bring up a lot of good points. I'd like to reposition my stance that I would prefer not grabbing either of them.

Regards to Elleby, after thinking it through, you're right. He has a low floor since he doesn't have a skill that's ready for the NBA. He has potential to be a rotational level player but is more likely to bust. At the NBA level, he will be more style than substance.

Terry is still interesting but his floor is pretty low and his ceiling is barely a starter. He'd have to become an absolute beast at shooting and off ball movement for him to reach that point and it's probably unlikely. He seems like the opposite of a Raptors draft selection.

I disagree that Elleby doesn't have a skill that's NBA ready. I believe that his shooting, rebounding, defense and decision making is NBA ready. Elleby has shown that he can score from all 3 levels off of the bounce or in catch and shoot situations, his passing is above average, he can create for others and plays with a high basketball IQ.

CJ's defense has improve each season in college to wit he led the Pac-12 in total steals and steals per game this past season. He has has guarded pgs, sgs, sfs, pfs effectively showing that he can switch off on defense no matter the situation. He rebounds very well on both ends of the court while using his body to block out to gain position on bigger opponents and using his size against smaller opponents to leverage rebounds in his favor.

CJ has all the physical attributes & mental intangibles needed to play effectively at the NBA level for an extended period of years as he doesn't rely strictly on his athleticism to get by but on a combination of both his physical skill set and his basketball acumen. CJ Elleby has the very real potential to be a bigger Norman Powell type of player on both ends of the court. CJ is the type of player that would excel in the Raptors environment given that he's a certified gym rat not a club hopper or running in the streets.

[Psubs]

What does he do better than Paul Reed; who plays a position of need? I suppose passing and 3pt shooting (which can be worked on).

This articles has some nice breakdown of his game.

http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

The point is that Paul Reed has character. His career trajectory once he makes it to the NBA will incline. His work ethic, and love for the game can be seen through his eye-catching rise in the rankings over the past couple of years alone.

In high school, Reed was never ranked by ESPN top 100. In his senior year, he was ranked the 271st best high school player in the nation by 247 Sports, with nearly a 0% chance of making it to the NBA. As a freshman at DePaul, Reed played less than 10 minutes per game, and put up less than four points per game. Even by that point, nobody had him on their radar to go to the big leagues, except for himself.

It was in the 2018-2019 season after one of Paul’s teammates had graduated that he began to see more floor time, and his production spiked along with that. He took advantage of the 26.9 minutes that he earned, and produced 12.3 points per game on an efficient 56.2% from the floor and 40.5% from deep, while also improving his free throw percentage by 19.1%.

Paul was available for an interview, and when asked what got him into basketball, he responded “What made me fall in love with basketball is just the amount of fun that I had playing it.”

[Dalek]

What does he do better than Paul Reed; who plays a position of need? This articles has some nice breakdown of his game.

http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

The point is that Paul Reed has character. His career trajectory once he makes it to the NBA will incline. His work ethic, and love for the game can be seen through his eye-catching rise in the rankings over the past couple of years alone.

In high school, Reed was never ranked by ESPN top 100. In his senior year, he was ranked the 271st best high school player in the nation by 247 Sports, with nearly a 0% chance of making it to the NBA. As a freshman at DePaul, Reed played less than 10 minutes per game, and put up less than four points per game. Even by that point, nobody had him on their radar to go to the big leagues, except for himself.

It was in the 2018-2019 season after one of Paul’s teammates had graduated that he began to see more floor time, and his production spiked along with that. He took advantage of the 26.9 minutes that he earned, and produced 12.3 points per game on an efficient 56.2% from the floor and 40.5% from deep, while also improving his free throw percentage by 19.1%.

Paul was available for an interview, and when asked what got him into basketball, he responded “What made me fall in love with basketball is just the amount of fun that I had playing it.”

Paul Reed has character, and has great stats and overall progression. Yet, I cannot reconcile that with the eye test. His video makes him look like Marvin Williams - can stretch the floor a bit but not a great handle to do anything more than straight-line drives. Just a heady player but not a special athlete.

I think it is fair to ask how much of ceiling he has as a prospect. Can this guy defend multiple positions? Can he play C or SF, or is he more of an undersized PF. To me, he seems like a guy that is too good for college but in the G-League he would be one of those guys that are borderline NBA guys.

[LoveMyRaps]

I'm still really hoping we draft Karim Mane. I'm very him on him.
Frank Jackson/Terence Davis hybrid.

[Psubs]

What does he do better than Paul Reed; who plays a position of need? This articles has some nice breakdown of his game.

http://www.raptorscage.ca/the-late-20s-paul-reed/

The point is that Paul Reed has character. His career trajectory once he makes it to the NBA will incline. His work ethic, and love for the game can be seen through his eye-catching rise in the rankings over the past couple of years alone.

In high school, Reed was never ranked by ESPN top 100. In his senior year, he was ranked the 271st best high school player in the nation by 247 Sports, with nearly a 0% chance of making it to the NBA. As a freshman at DePaul, Reed played less than 10 minutes per game, and put up less than four points per game. Even by that point, nobody had him on their radar to go to the big leagues, except for himself.

It was in the 2018-2019 season after one of Paul’s teammates had graduated that he began to see more floor time, and his production spiked along with that. He took advantage of the 26.9 minutes that he earned, and produced 12.3 points per game on an efficient 56.2% from the floor and 40.5% from deep, while also improving his free throw percentage by 19.1%.

Paul was available for an interview, and when asked what got him into basketball, he responded “What made me fall in love with basketball is just the amount of fun that I had playing it.”

Paul Reed has character, and has great stats and overall progression. Yet, I cannot reconcile that with the eye test. His video makes him look like Marvin Williams - can stretch the floor a bit but not a great handle to do anything more than straight-line drives. Just a heady player but not a special athlete.

I think it is fair to ask how much of ceiling he has as a prospect. Can this guy defend multiple positions? Can he play C or SF, or is he more of an undersized PF. To me, he seems like a guy that is too good for college but in the G-League he would be one of those guys that are borderline NBA guys.

To me he's like a lanky version of OG. He has such good instincts on defense and doesn't look off-balance. Siakam didn't any better running the floor as a playmaker. His ceiling is 1st team all NBA defense and 3rd team on offense. Paul Reed sounds like someone that can raise their perceived ceiling.