Draft Thread Part 8: 4th pick !!!!

[Rodrickle]

Roy had that Harden-esq old man game. Insane polish for a guy in the draft, almost Cade like.

That polish isn't there on Suggs, they are selling the promise of that. Not the actual product.

Suggs has better or comparable stats in his 1 yr to Roy's years 1-3 in college. Just worth noting.

For sure, it’s always possible that Suggs makes a leap like Roy did. Lonzo did as well and he turned out to be a 14/7/7 career guy. (Which isn’t bad at all)

I think Suggs is of that rather than being a franchise changing guy, that’s all I’m saying.

Hope he proves me wrong though.

True, but Suggs uses quickness and athleticism to get to the rim, and plays more off instinct. Brandon Roy uses more craft/pace and reads the defence better. Cade is much more like Roy with a few extra inches.

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[HumbleRen]

Suggs has better or comparable stats in his 1 yr to Roy's years 1-3 in college. Just worth noting.

For sure, it’s always possible that Suggs makes a leap like Roy did. Lonzo did as well and he turned out to be a 14/7/7 career guy. (Which isn’t bad at all)

I think Suggs is of that rather than being a franchise changing guy, that’s all I’m saying.

Hope he proves me wrong though.

True, but Suggs uses quickness and athleticism to get to the rim, and plays more off instinct. Brandon Roy uses more craft/pace and reads the defence better. Cade is much more like Roy with a few extra inches.

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Yeah, I personally don’t see the Roy comparisons at all.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

You should check out Roy's AST-TO ratio in college. Not that nice to look at, especially for such a 'polished' guy

Was he or Nate Robinson playing PG? It's been a minute, but I thought they used him as a wing/SG.

[Federalies]

Looks like we made it…again Boys and Girls!

Watch on YouTube

Imagine somehow the following happens:
- raps draft mobley
- s&t lowry for Ben Simmons

Simmons
FVV
OG
Siakam
Mobley

Offence would have some shooting concerns, but that would be nightmare defence for other teams to deal with

Big yikes. That lineup literally screams fraudulent playoff pretenders.

Philly would never do that trade and Raptors would be in salary cap hell being a perennial 1st to 2nd round exit.

I’d suggest we’ll be in salary cap hell either way.

We’ll be paying whoever we get back in a sign and trade for Lowry or the dude we go get using the Cap Space if he walks for nothing (Holmes) then we pay GTJ in any case. We were always going to be an over the cap team, it’s just about us deciding who we’re going to go with.

FVV/Flynn
Suggs/GTJ
OG/GTJ-Yuta/Wieskamp
Pascal/Boucher
Simmons/Khem/2nd rounder-Freddie G

Or

FVV/Flynn
Suggs/GTJ
OG/GTJ-Yuta/Wieskamp
Pascal/Boucher
Holmes/Khem/2nd rounder-Freddie G

[HumbleRen]

Imagine somehow the following happens:
- raps draft mobley
- s&t lowry for Ben Simmons

Simmons
FVV
OG
Siakam
Mobley

Offence would have some shooting concerns, but that would be nightmare defence for other teams to deal with

Big yikes. That lineup literally screams fraudulent playoff pretenders.

Philly would never do that trade and Raptors would be in salary cap hell being a perennial 1st to 2nd round exit.

I’d suggest we’ll be in salary cap hell either way.

We’ll be paying whoever we get back in a sign and trade for Lowry or the dude we go get using the Cap Space if he walks for nothing (Holmes) then we pay GTJ in any case. We were always going to be an over the cap team, it’s just about us deciding who we’re going to go with.

FVV/Flynn
Suggs/GTJ
OG/GTG-Yuta/Wieskamp
Pascal/Boucher
Simmons/Khem/2nd rounder-Freddie G

Or

FVV/Flynn
Suggs/GTJ
OG/GTG-Yuta/Wieskamp
Pascal/Boucher
Holmes/Khem/2nd rounder-Freddie G

Rather go with this tbh.

I think Simmons can still be a good player despite his performances in the playoffs but we’re absolutely one of the worst rosters to compliment his strengths IMO.

[VanWest82]

The thing that worries me with Suggs is even though he's a good athlete his movements are stiff (i.e. not a lot of wiggle). He's a straight line driver which makes me wonder how effective he'll be at creating his own shot in the pros let alone creating for others.

The more I look at Kuminga the more I can see us going that direction even though there are concerns with him as well.

[So Clutch]

Brandon Roy was called a jack of all trades.

Brandon Roy was elite, that's where that comparison stops. At least in my mind, I doubt we're talking about Suggs as top five.

20ish, sure. I can see him making the all-star at some point. Maybe a few times. Starting...I don't know.

Brandon Roy scouting report at the time.

Weaknesses: Does everything very well but nothing out of this world … On the small side. Lacks tremendous size and length at just 6-6 with a short wing span … Lacks great body strength. His body is solid but not overpowering … Foot speed and quickness is strong but wont stand out on the next level …

Sounds a lot like the critique of Suggs. And Roy was a 4 year guy too whereas Suggs is coming out as a freshman

People are comparing the end product of these NBA comparisons (Brandon Roy) to a college freshman. Just doesn’t work like that.


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[Grew]

Top 4 have a floor of boarder line all star imo. Only injuries or being drafted by a team that has no clue how to utilize and develop them could derail the talent these guys have.

Even if something went wrong, they all seem to have a better mindset than a guy like Bagley, and they all have more complete games than a guy like Fultz.

Not a bust in the bunch. I like Barnes and Kuminga too, but if Cleveland reaches for one of them, I think we might be looking back at them as the Darko of this draft.

[So Clutch]

Brandon Roy scouting report at the time.

Weaknesses: Does everything very well but nothing out of this world … On the small side. Lacks tremendous size and length at just 6-6 with a short wing span … Lacks great body strength. His body is solid but not overpowering … Foot speed and quickness is strong but wont stand out on the next level …

Sounds a lot like the critique of Suggs. And Roy was a 4 year guy too whereas Suggs is coming out as a freshman

Roy had that Harden-esq old man game. Insane polish for a guy in the draft, almost Cade like.

That polish isn't there on Suggs, they are selling the promise of that. Not the actual product.

Brandon Roy was a senior coming into the draft. Suggs is a freshman. You’d have a point maybe if Suggs stated the same player after 3 more years.


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[Clutch0z24]

Yep. People are so rigid on the top 4 in this class. Any other name mentioned is blasphemy. Like it’s so inconceivable to think that anyone else could turn out better. It’s as if the top 4 are destined to be perennial All-Stars before even debuting, while everyone else will be a clear tier behind. I guarantee that when there’s a draft do-over in future, the top 4 will be different. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that the top 4 aren’t the top 4, but I find it laughable how people talk in such absolutes and are outraged by any other name mentioned, as if going another route would be the biggest mistake in franchise history. History shows the draft is a crapshoot.

Its a crapshoot to a certain extent , When there are undeniable talent its pretty obvious who will become good to Great NBA players in the league if you do your homework like im sure Masai is doing....

There are some drafts where every player has alot of question marks and some drafts where there are just players who are destined to succeed....kD/Rose/Magic/Bird/Shaq/Zion/AD/LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/Ming/Iverson...Just to name a few guys who coming into their classes were all guys you can see were already going to make an impact in the NBA...

Sometimes there are players who surprise you that get picked late...It just all depends on the draft Class in general....

This Class looks to be one of the more Talented Classes we seen in recent memory so to say the top 4, And beyond won't be gems could also be wrong...

All of Cade/Mobley/Green/Suggs are top tier looking prospects and all 4 have undeniable potential just by studying and watching film you can see greatness in all 4 player, Will one of them turn out to be better then another ofc, But i still feel this Top 4 all are destined for greatness in their own ways in the NBA...

Barnes/Kuminga/Senguns of the worlds all have them question marks that guys like DerricK Williams/MKG/Kanter had coming into the draft... So they might have bust potential more so.....Ofc there will be a few Gems in the Later Lottery ...One name to watch is Bouknight who could end up being one of the better players in the class at the end of the day...

But still at where we are drafting im taking my bets on one of the top 4 atm cause they all have All star potential right away

The point is: there is literally a 0% chance that all NBA teams have Cunningham, Mobley, Green and Suggs as the top 4 on their boards. So just because the vacuum of public opinion on the internet talks about a consensus "top 4" doesn't mean this exists in reality.

I will say for certain its about a 90 percent chance the Pistons,Rockets,Cavs,Raptors are all going to be Drafting Cunningham,Mobley,Green,Suggs in the Top 4 and it just depends on which one goes where....

The other prospects are the ones that GMs are worried about the Kumingas/Barnes/Senguns/Giddys of the world are all guys who have the Bust potential in this draft so they will be picked outside of the top picks for that reason...

The top 4 in this draft all have the highest ceilings in this draft for a reason thats why they are ranked so high....The crapshoot in this draft starts at 5 and onwards

[So Clutch]

The thing with Suggs is that he’s not elite at anything, he’s a jack of all trades type of player which isn’t bad at all but it’s not a franchise changing player.

Having a complete tear down of the roster because we drafted Suggs would be a huge mistake.

Brandon Roy was called a jack of all trades.

Completely different players.

Roy was fundamentally sound, 6’6 and a superior athlete.

Suggs is easily the most raw player in the top 4 with the floor of a Lonzo Ball/Ceiling of a Jrue Holiday imo.

So he’s the most raw player....and he has the lowest ceiling. Interesting.


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[So Clutch]

Roy was also a 4 year guy and 3 years older when he was coming out, so its no doubt he was more polished. The same critiques existed tho. Jack of all trades, master of none with questions surrounding his athleticism (dont think those athletic questions are really there with Suggs)

He played slower, so they questioned his athleticism. But it's like Kawhi, when you have that of polish in your game. You pick the speed you play at.

Suggs on the other hand, that assist to turnover ratio isn't something you can just practice. I don't know many drills for that. Not easily fixed and it limits where you can use him.

You’re literally talking out your ass. Look at Cades terrible assist to turnover ratio. Guaranteed bust I guess, since “it’s not something you can practice”.


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[Jcity08]

The draft cant get here sooner. The wait since we got the 4th pick has been a test of endurance. I dont care who we get in the top4 because I like what I see from each of them.

[Buff]

The thing with Suggs is that he’s not elite at anything, he’s a jack of all trades type of player which isn’t bad at all but it’s not a franchise changing player.

I don't think that's completely true. I think he has elite size for a PG. People have compared him to Lowry, now imagine a Lowry that can slam lobs and do 360s... that is scary. By all accounts he's defense, at least in college, it's elite. He is also elite in the fast break both as a passer and a finisher (not sure he's elite there).

Having a complete tear down of the roster because we drafted Suggs would be a huge mistake.

Here I agree and it was the point of my post, you don't need to tear anything down when you get Suggs, he's got the right mentality and the right tools to play with anybody. For instance, I salivate at Pascal running the break with Suggs, even a bit at FVV playing off the ball with him.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

You’re literally talking out your ass. Look at Cades terrible assist to turnover ratio. Guaranteed bust I guess, since “it’s not something you can practice”.


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I never said anything about Cades assist/turnover ratio.

I said his game was polished, and it is.

[HumbleRen]

The thing with Suggs is that he’s not elite at anything, he’s a jack of all trades type of player which isn’t bad at all but it’s not a franchise changing player.

I don't think that's completely true. I think he has elite size for a PG. People have compared him to Lowry, now imagine a Lowry that can slam lobs and do 360s... that is scary. By all accounts he's defense, at least in college, it's elite. He is also elite in the fast break both as a passer and a finisher (not sure he's elite there).

Having a complete tear down of the roster because we drafted Suggs would be a huge mistake.

Here I agree and it was the point of my post, you don't need to tear anything down when you get Suggs, he's got the right mentality and the right tools to play with anybody. For instance, I salivate at Pascal running the break with Suggs, even a bit at FVV playing off the ball with him.

Yeah, completely agree on your second point. I just really hope by the end of the year that FVV is playing off the ball and Suggs is the primary ball handler.

FVV is at his best playing off the ball with his shooting.

[Buff]

He is likely not nor will he ever be a "superstar". Could he be a floor general leader and champion like Lowry? I would say that is his ceiling.

I'd take that, a 6'4 205 version of Lowry is a hell of a player, albeit not a superstar.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I'd take that, a 6'4 205 version of Lowry is a hell of a player, albeit not a superstar.

It's settling. Unless you want to come back to this past season 4-5 times.

It's like hitting a triple in the home run contest.

[So Clutch]

You’re literally talking out your ass. Look at Cades terrible assist to turnover ratio. Guaranteed bust I guess, since “it’s not something you can practice”.


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I never said anything about Cades assist/turnover ratio.

I said his game was polished, and it is.

Let me remind you:

[quote=“Harcore Fenton Mun”]Suggs on the other hand, that assist to turnover ratio isn't something you can just practice. I don't know many drills for that. Not easily fixed and it limits where you can use him.[/quote]

You’re criticizing Suggs about his assist/TO ratio, and how it’s unfixable because “you can’t practice that” and “there are no drills for that”. One can assume with that logic, that with Cade’s even worse assist/TO ratio, that he’s a pretty hopeless prospect.


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[Harcore Fenton Mun]

You’re criticizing Suggs about his assist/TO ratio, and how it’s unfixable because “you can’t practice that” and “there are no drills for that”. One can assume with that logic, that with Cade’s even worse assist/TO ratio, that he’s a pretty hopeless prospect.


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I'm allowed to disagree.

Further, you want Cade to pass? That's your argument?