Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V2.0

[WaltFrazier]

Sengun was awful. Got to play better than that if you're given the ball so often.

I felt bad for him because Draymond was allowed to maul him with no calls, but yeah he still has to make a lot of the paint shots he missed.

He looked very natural hitting a late 3, I wonder why he hasn't done more to develop that. Especially since the team needs shooting , and he's a bit undersized as a center

[Randle McMurphy]

FVV helped us win a championship as our 8th best player.

More like the 5th or 6th I'd say, but not sure what that has to do with anything. The guy still went 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of the playoffs that year in one of the clutchest shooting streaks you'll ever see. There's no parade if he's not on the roster.

[Agimat]

Sengun was awful. Got to play better than that if you're given the ball so often.

Sengun def needs to play better, but personally, I think Jalen's more to blame here only showed up once

[gp2015]

Of course, but the Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him, a guy who was significantly responsible for winning what will likely be the only Raptors title in our lifetimes, is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

People always go off about how he played in those series without talking about how horrible he was the first two, and him being unplayable almost cost us the 2nd round if it wasn’t for kawhi carrying.

Irrelevant to my point (and 3/4 of the roster was also unplayable against the 76ers). They don't win either the Bucks series or the Warriors series if FVV is not on the Raptors that season. Consequently, they don't win the championship without FVV. How much does that bother you?

We don't win the championship without any of these guys: Kawhi, Pascal, Lowry, Gasol, Powell, Fred, Ibaka.

[Randle McMurphy]

People always go off about how he played in those series without talking about how horrible he was the first two, and him being unplayable almost cost us the 2nd round if it wasn’t for kawhi carrying.

Irrelevant to my point (and 3/4 of the roster was also unplayable against the 76ers). They don't win either the Bucks series or the Warriors series if FVV is not on the Raptors that season. Consequently, they don't win the championship without FVV. How much does that bother you?

We don't win the championship without any of these guys: Kawhi, Pascal, Lowry, Gasol, Powell, Fred, Ibaka.

I would agree. All had their big moments/significant contributions at certain points of that run.

And all of those guys should be celebrated and not bizarrely trashed because their inexperienced team of young players acted like the inexperienced players they were in a game 7.

[WaltFrazier]

You do realize that FVV isn’t even in the top 2 of Houston’s leading scorers, right? That they are entirely dependent on both Sengun and Green to score in the half court? And that neither one showed up at all?

No, of course you don’t know that because your only agenda here is to bizarrely hate on a player that won a championship for this organization.

I’d put that championship more so on kawhi and Lowry.

Maybe fvv can help another team win one coming off the bench.

Of course, but the Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him, a guy who was significantly responsible for winning what will likely be the only Raptors title in our lifetimes, is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

The so called hate stems from his last 2-3 seasons here, not from 2019.

[Randle McMurphy]

I’d put that championship more so on kawhi and Lowry.

Maybe fvv can help another team win one coming off the bench.

Of course, but the Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him, a guy who was significantly responsible for winning what will likely be the only Raptors title in our lifetimes, is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

The so called hate stems from his last 2-3 seasons here, not from 2019.

I'm aware of that, but that doesn't mean the hate makes any more sense or is any more warranted.

[Tripod]

We don't win that Championship without FVV.

Or Kawhi. Or Lowry. Or Siakam. Or Gasol. Or Green. Or....

They all played important roles in winning a team game. Let's leave it at that.

[sidsid]

What this cemented is that Jalen Green is not getting traded for value unless he's being shipped out for Beal or Dame in a bigger trade.

Houston's going to have to pay the tax once they swap out Fred's contract for that star.

[bballsparkin]

Hey guys. I’m in Toronto for work this week and wanted to know if you guys have a good recommendation for a sports bar. Idgaf about the food just a good basketball atmosphere

I asked myself that many times before when going downtown to watch basketball games. I never really found a place. Your best bet is to find a bar that has lots of tvs/screens. sit at the bar. and tell the bartender you're a Knicks fan in Toronto for work and need one of the screens to be on your team. It's a reasonable request. Any sports bar worth it's weight in empty bottles will comply.

[Randle McMurphy]

We don't win that Championship without FVV.

Or Kawhi. Or Lowry. Or Siakam. Or Gasol. Or Green. Or....

They all played important roles in winning a team game. Let's leave it at that.

None of those guys get bizarrely hated by a large segment of this forum though.

[bballsparkin]

Fred had a great playoffs. Some of you are way too high on him. Some are way too low. Meet in the middle; whoop there it is.

[bballsparkin]

Sengun was awful. Got to play better than that if you're given the ball so often.

He's still 22. I don't like Draymond but he's not so bad at defence. Give him time.

[bballsparkin]

Sengun is a better version of Sabonis but still much of the same weaknesses. He may need to convert his game to taking more 3’s because that ugly post game only works against weak defenders.

Segun is "theoretically a better version of Sabonis". Don't be putting the cart before the horse bball jones! Let's be real. If you swap where they are as players now: Sabonis and Segun. Houston wins with Sabonis. Hopefully one day Segun surpasses him but it's all talk for now.

[sidsid]

The Warriors somehow found time to give Kuminga minutes, a guy who won't be on the team next year, while Ime couldn't find some burn for any if his bench kids to replace single digit scoring Green in a desperation situation.

[Tripod]

We don't win that Championship without FVV.

Or Kawhi. Or Lowry. Or Siakam. Or Gasol. Or Green. Or....

They all played important roles in winning a team game. Let's leave it at that.

None of those guys get bizarrely hated by a large segment of this forum though.

Honestly, because they are simply more likable.

Fred going to the media to take shots at teammates rubbed a ton of people the wrong way.

And he told media he HAD to be a top 3 option to be effective. He was the 2nd option in Tor...then once in Houston was the 3rd option and saw his FGA drop by 3/4 per game.

And he helped lead the selfish, awful to watch, play.

Even the behind the scenes doc on his contract negotiations, him telling his agent that if Toronto only matches another team, go with the other team, bothered people.

For some people it might only be 1 of these, others more. And for some people, there are other things I didn't list.

It's OK to thank FVV for his part in the Raps winning the Championship but also dislike what he became as the "leader".

[Tripod]

The Warriors somehow found time to give Kuminga minutes, a guy who won't be on the team next year, while Ime couldn't find some burn for any if his bench kids to replace single digit scoring Green in a desperation situation.

I was shocked to see Kuminga in. Too bad he went 0-4. Hope he goes somewhere and turns things around.

[FrozenLeafz]

People always go off about how he played in those series without talking about how horrible he was the first two, and him being unplayable almost cost us the 2nd round if it wasn’t for kawhi carrying.

Irrelevant to my point (and 3/4 of the roster was also unplayable against the 76ers). They don't win either the Bucks series or the Warriors series if FVV is not on the Raptors that season. Consequently, they don't win the championship without FVV. How much does that bother you?

We don't win the championship without any of these guys: Kawhi, Pascal, Lowry, Gasol, Powell, Fred, Ibaka.

[Boogie!]

Of course, but the Raptors don't win the 2019 title if FVV isn't on that team. He shot 30/57 from three in the last 9 games of that season while guarding the greatest offensive PG in the history of basketball for most of those.

The fact that this forum regularly goes out of their way to hate on him, a guy who was significantly responsible for winning what will likely be the only Raptors title in our lifetimes, is as much bizarre as it is ridiculous.

People always go off about how he played in those series without talking about how horrible he was the first two, and him being unplayable almost cost us the 2nd round if it wasn’t for kawhi carrying.

Irrelevant to my point (and 3/4 of the roster was also unplayable against the 76ers). They don't win either the Bucks series or the Warriors series if FVV is not on the Raptors that season. Consequently, they don't win the championship without FVV. How much does that bother you?

It bothers me that he has been overhyped. For years I was saying it would be a mistake to build around him, even before the raptors signed him to that long term deal, and everyone was calling me crazy and a troll and an idiot even though I knew he would forever limit the potential of the team expecting him tp carry us. Nick nurse wanted him as a top scoring option shooting such miserable percentages. And the raptors capped out as a middle first round exit team and year after year people keep acting like fvv is this amazing player:leader but he keeps losing in the first round.

So yes, my beef is largely with the fact that I was relentlessly attacked for stating my opinion on who he was as a player, that I feel the need to emphasize that he is still that same player wherever he goes.

Again, this isn’t even to say he’s a bad player. I respect his work ethic, I respect he made something of himself, I respect that he got the contract that he did. But again, he’s still the same player I said he was as a raptor and he’s forever gonna limit the potential of the teams he’s on in the role he’s in. Make him a sixth man on the warriors or something and he’ll be great.

[Boogie!]

We don't win that Championship without FVV.

Or Kawhi. Or Lowry. Or Siakam. Or Gasol. Or Green. Or....

They all played important roles in winning a team game. Let's leave it at that.

None of those guys get bizarrely hated by a large segment of this forum though.

Honestly, because they are simply more likable.

Fred going to the media to take shots at teammates rubbed a ton of people the wrong way.

And he told media he HAD to be a top 3 option to be effective. He was the 2nd option in Tor...then once in Houston was the 3rd option and saw his FGA drop by 3/4 per game.

And he helped lead the selfish, awful to watch, play.

Even the behind the scenes doc on his contract negotiations, him telling his agent that if Toronto only matches another team, go with the other team, bothered people.

For some people it might only be 1 of these, others more. And for some people, there are other things I didn't list.

It's OK to thank FVV for his part in the Raps winning the Championship but also dislike what he became as the "leader".

But also he’s just overrated by some people. Again everyone that defends him acts like him shooting the percentages he does has no bearing on his game. I don’t know any other player on todays nba that is seen as some sort of star or leader that shoots sub 40% from the field.