Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Quattro]

"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period."

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-we-are-infectious-disease-experts-its-time-to-lift-the-covid-19-lockdowns

Screw old people and unhealthy younger people. What use are they right?

[Vaclac]

The report on conditions in Ontario nursing homes is appalling. This is where the vast majority of people have been dying from covid - and these conditions, basically abandonment of these patients, plus allowing covid positive patients to wander the halls and even share a room with residents who have not yet tested positive, are insane. And these observations came from the military, who were called in after the pandemic was well under way with full knowledge that the elderly were at most risk and these homes should have been under the strictest hygiene protocols already. The failures to follow protocols to save lives right in the heart of the problem makes a mockery of the collective efforts by everyone else to save those same lives.

[Vaclac]

"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period."

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-we-are-infectious-disease-experts-its-time-to-lift-the-covid-19-lockdowns

Screw old people and unhealthy younger people. What use are they right?

No, but maybe target policies a little better to protect those vulnerable people? You can't tell me that the most efficient way to protect them is to lockdown everyone else harder while at the same time having horrifying conditions in nursing homes where, among other things, covid positive patients are just wandering the halls and rooming with other residents who haven't yet tested positive.

[Quattro]

"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period."

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-we-are-infectious-disease-experts-its-time-to-lift-the-covid-19-lockdowns

Screw old people and unhealthy younger people. What use are they right?

No, but maybe target policies a little better to protect those vulnerable people? You can't tell me that the most efficient way to protect them is to lockdown everyone else harder while at the same time having horrifying conditions in nursing homes where, among other things, covid positive patients are just wandering the halls and rooming with other residents who haven't yet tested positive.

What else is new. Nursing homes in this province have ALWAYS been appalling. Every few years a newspaper does an expose exposing the awful way our elderly are treated, the government at the time bleats about how they are committed to change and then they go back to ignoring the issue.

[Vaclac]

Screw old people and unhealthy younger people. What use are they right?

No, but maybe target policies a little better to protect those vulnerable people? You can't tell me that the most efficient way to protect them is to lockdown everyone else harder while at the same time having horrifying conditions in nursing homes where, among other things, covid positive patients are just wandering the halls and rooming with other residents who haven't yet tested positive.

What else is new. Nursing homes in this province have ALWAYS been appalling. Every few years a newspaper does an expose exposing the awful way our elderly are treated, the government at the time bleats about how they are committed to change and then they go back to ignoring the issue.

Agreed... if there's anything rational or consistent at all about our response to this, one good thing is it might make us more willing to fund longterm care facilities. Of course they are very expensive to operate at a high standard, so what governments have done is underfund them, but covid has revealed people willing to sacrifice much more to help protect the elderly and hopefully that attitude continues with a greater willingness to properly provide fundung and oversight to ensure a high standard of care in these institutions going forward.

[The Duke]

34 cases in Canada outside of Ontario (404) and Quebec (573) today. The frustration with these two provinces, especially the largest centres will continue to grow across the rest of the country.

Many people I know aren't taking the quarantine seriously anymore. If this keeps up, the government will need to get strict and start fining people for being morons. We clearly aren't disciplined enough for loosened restrictions.

I hope the rest of the provinces restrict travel from Ontario and Quebec.

I hope Ontario and Quebec taxpayers can stop sending tax funds to other provinces

[Fairview4Life]

A way to predict outbreaks a week in advance from a small number of centralized locations seems super useful. Or I guess not predict outbreaks, but identify them a week earlier then we currently do by testing symptomatic people.

Read on Twitter

[bballsparkin]

Why are we opening up cooling centres? I don't know how popular these are, but if they attract a crowd, it sounds like it will just increase the risk of spread. Unless someone is old or sick, they can live without AC for a few days (maybe just limit these places to that demographic?).

I've read it could get mighty hot this summer. And not everyone has A/C. So I would imagine they are very important for some people like you said. Heat strokes could likely send many people to hospitals as well. Which we clearly don't want. How do you decide to turn someone away who claims they need cooling? What would the criteria be?

Also I wonder, if we can't handle cooling centres now, what is going to happen in the winter when a cold spell hits with the flu and cornavirus at the same time?

[bballsparkin]

What else is new. Nursing homes in this province have ALWAYS been appalling. Every few years a newspaper does an expose exposing the awful way our elderly are treated, the government at the time bleats about how they are committed to change and then they go back to ignoring the issue.

I've heard stories that depends/adult diapers at some (many?) places are not to be changed until the colour on them changes to blue. So if someone partially soils themselves they could be sitting in wet padding for long stretches. People controlling those things like they're cigarettes in the Gulag. It's a pretty sad state of affairs.

[nikster]

"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period."

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-we-are-infectious-disease-experts-its-time-to-lift-the-covid-19-lockdowns

Screw old people and unhealthy younger people. What use are they right?

No, but maybe target policies a little better to protect those vulnerable people? You can't tell me that the most efficient way to protect them is to lockdown everyone else harder while at the same time having horrifying conditions in nursing homes where, among other things, covid positive patients are just wandering the halls and rooming with other residents who haven't yet tested positive.

Few questions about the article. I didnt see where they got the mortality rate, was that deaths/cases or deaths/population of young people? It compares the risk to MVAs, which is kind of strange as MVAs are one of the leading causes of death in young canadians, adding COVID on top of that isnt exactly miniscule. It mentions cases rise with testing, but Ontario has been seeing increases even when the testing numbers were low or comprable to earlier days. As for Sweden, they have double the death rate despite vastly less population density and being an isolated island vs Ontario having one of the worst hit states on its border. Also it appears Swedens lack of lockdown has not really eased the economic burden of the disease. Im surprised they ended with reccomending a "swift" lifting of lockdown restrictions.

I agree with some of the premises tho, finding the relevant risk factors for death or sever outcomes is gonna be very important. I also think determining an appropriate threshold. Ontarios current threshold is very low and likely unantainable once testing increases. Hospital strain might be a better metric. Hoping more sewage based testing can be used to help identify the appropriate threshold and/or predict spikes.

[Vaclac]

^ Right, I think the point of comparing to motor vehicle accidents is to say that at some point we accept even fairly significant risks, even for otherwise young healthy people, because the benefit of motor vehicles is just so high. We could ban them or reduce speed limits to 5 kph, but that would cause a lot more problems than it's worth - causing an economic collapse, increasing the prices of most things, including food, etc, not to mention the reduced personal convenience for most people. Of course thinking about similar issues regarding covid and our response to it means you are evil and just care about money more than lives.

[Fairview4Life]

A way to predict outbreaks a week in advance from a small number of centralized locations seems super useful. Or I guess not predict outbreaks, but identify them a week earlier then we currently do by testing symptomatic people.

Read on Twitter

UPDATE: http://teaching.sociology.ul.ie/bhalpin/wordpress/?p=669

Not quite as promising but not complete trash.

[VicG]

34 cases in Canada outside of Ontario (404) and Quebec (573) today. The frustration with these two provinces, especially the largest centres will continue to grow across the rest of the country.

Many people I know aren't taking the quarantine seriously anymore. If this keeps up, the government will need to get strict and start fining people for being morons. We clearly aren't disciplined enough for loosened restrictions.

I hope the rest of the provinces restrict travel from Ontario and Quebec.

I hope Ontario and Quebec taxpayers can stop sending tax funds to other provinces

Yes! Well said.

[Hero]

The way I see it, if an individual is now making $2000 a month and that is an INCREASE on what they were making before, the only issue is why we as a society allow some of our citizens to be compensated so poorly to begin with.

As a family, combined income.

Husband, wife, the 15 year old, and the 18 year old. 8 grand. How the 15 year old qualifies for the max is beyond me.

They will be coming back hard on people taking advantage of the system.

96,000 a year (before tax) for a family of four sounds almost fair to me.

Not when they're all not working and contributing very little. Not when our society is going through a crisis. It means living on less and using their savings or cutting back as much as they can.

[Fairview4Life]

I really doubt there are very many people taking advantage of the system. My wife is in medical school at the moment, and in theory the pandemic is preventing her from working. So I guess we could apply for some money? But it's actually somewhat of a hassle to do, the rules aren't super clear for her situation and I make more than enough money to keep paying for everything, so we aren't going to bother. If I wasn't making much money, we probably would, but then we would also need the money and I wouldn't consider that as taking advantage of the system.

[beanbag]

As a family, combined income.

Husband, wife, the 15 year old, and the 18 year old. 8 grand. How the 15 year old qualifies for the max is beyond me.

They will be coming back hard on people taking advantage of the system.

96,000 a year (before tax) for a family of four sounds almost fair to me.

Not when they're all not working and contributing very little. Not when our society is going through a crisis. It means living on less and using their savings or cutting back as much as they can.

And what about people who have no savings and have already cut back as much as they can? **** them eh?

Imagine laying off a family (essentially saying we are actively going to prevent you from contributing to society) and then explaining to them they don't deserve a living wage because they are "contributing very little" to society. Bonkers.

[BBallInSight]

"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period."

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-we-are-infectious-disease-experts-its-time-to-lift-the-covid-19-lockdowns

See. That's why I don't drive. Shut 'er down - hard.

Not.

[BBallInSight]

"In Canada, the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent. This is roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period."

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-we-are-infectious-disease-experts-its-time-to-lift-the-covid-19-lockdowns

Screw old people and unhealthy younger people. What use are they right?

Nobody is denying people from taking precautions. Heck, if you're sick or old, stay home. It'd be better for Ontario to pay only those people to stay home.

If we keep this up there will be no money for ohip. No procedures for old people. What about the multitude of programs designed for those groups? Gone.

Ask an 80 old who's staying home anyway if they want all of society to be locked up as well at the cost of their grandchild's future.

Makes zero sense.

[BBallInSight]

The report on conditions in Ontario nursing homes is appalling. This is where the vast majority of people have been dying from covid - and these conditions, basically abandonment of these patients, plus allowing covid positive patients to wander the halls and even share a room with residents who have not yet tested positive, are insane. And these observations came from the military, who were called in after the pandemic was well under way with full knowledge that the elderly were at most risk and these homes should have been under the strictest hygiene protocols already. The failures to follow protocols to save lives right in the heart of the problem makes a mockery of the collective efforts by everyone else to save those same lives.

And yet, only 4 staff have died of over 1700 cases. It's possible covid didn't even cause their deaths, given how deaths are being recorded. What more evidence is needed for opening up?

[Raps in 4]

I love the irony of Doug Ford's government taking over management of long term care homes. Here I thought government was inefficient and government regulation of industry was not needed.