2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 5

[NotMyKawhi]

Trading for a star is the move. We have 6 15+ scorers. It's gonna be hard to develop a rookie into a superstar without them having the ball

[Clutch0z24]

Trading for a star is the move. We have 6 15+ scorers. It's gonna be hard to develop a rookie into a superstar without them having the ball

Which stars are really available though that could move the needle for us to make a trade? I mean you have guys like Zion, Tre Young, KD off the top of my head.....Trading a 7th pick + RJ + Dick for one of them guys really put us in a better position? Zion would be the best upside swing but we would just be the Pelicans of the east at that point....Idk if there is a Star available worth it atm...

[God Squad]

I think if you hate Maulauch's feel than if you gamble on anyone to be a star, I think Noa Essengue should be a in consideration at 7 as he is getting stronger over the past few games. He has this whole Tashaun Prince vibe to him.

Noa Essengue is 6'11 has a 9'3.25'' standing reach better than Alex Sarr and Yves Missi.
62 TS%
He is usually the faster player running end to end.
.80 FTR
Willing passer - neutral ast-to ; mostly in a finisher role.
Youngest player in the class (I think)

Last five games:
51/44/64
12 PPG
5.8 TRB
1.6 AST
1.2 STL
0.6 BLK

I've been beating this drum for weeks, maybe longer.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I think if you hate Maulauch's feel than if you gamble on anyone to be a star, I think Noa Essengue should be a in consideration at 7 as he is getting stronger over the past few games. He has this whole Tashaun Prince vibe to him.

Noa Essengue is 6'11 has a 9'3.25'' standing reach better than Alex Sarr and Yves Missi.
62 TS%
He is usually the faster player running end to end.
.80 FTR
Willing passer - neutral ast-to ; mostly in a finisher role.
Youngest player in the class (I think)

Last five games:
51/44/64
12 PPG
5.8 TRB
1.6 AST
1.2 STL
0.6 BLK

I've been beating this drum for weeks, maybe longer.

looks like he could end up being a + version of jerami grant and grant is 12th in class vorp in a pretty strong class

maybe 6 is too high but definitely if that's his mold should be like 8-10 in this year's class. firmly mid lotto talent i think.

[NotMyKawhi]

Trading for a star is the move. We have 6 15+ scorers. It's gonna be hard to develop a rookie into a superstar without them having the ball

Which stars are really available though that could move the needle for us to make a trade? I mean you have guys like Zion, Tre Young, KD off the top of my head.....Trading a 7th pick + RJ + Dick for one of them guys really put us in a better position? Zion would be the best upside swing but we would just be the Pelicans of the east at that point....Idk if there is a Star available worth it atm...

Its a tough situation. If dick, jakobe or 7 outperforms a starter, we will have a bad contract. It's almost like a no win situation

[God Squad]

I think if you hate Maulauch's feel than if you gamble on anyone to be a star, I think Noa Essengue should be a in consideration at 7 as he is getting stronger over the past few games. He has this whole Tashaun Prince vibe to him.

Noa Essengue is 6'11 has a 9'3.25'' standing reach better than Alex Sarr and Yves Missi.
62 TS%
He is usually the faster player running end to end.
.80 FTR
Willing passer - neutral ast-to ; mostly in a finisher role.
Youngest player in the class (I think)

Last five games:
51/44/64
12 PPG
5.8 TRB
1.6 AST
1.2 STL
0.6 BLK

I've been beating this drum for weeks, maybe longer.

looks like he could end up being a + version of jerami grant and grant is 12th in class vorp in a pretty strong class

maybe 6 is too high but definitely if that's his mold should be like 8-10 in this year's class. firmly mid lotto talent i think.

This is what I'm trying to grasp. I love his potential and what he brings now, but 6 seems rich. So I'd look for a trade-back scenario. But for all I know his stock will rise once teams get him in.

I'm a fan and think his ceiling is quite high, yet he still seems under the radar. Weirdly I think his floor is still a 2way player lol.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I've been beating this drum for weeks, maybe longer.

looks like he could end up being a + version of jerami grant and grant is 12th in class vorp in a pretty strong class

maybe 6 is too high but definitely if that's his mold should be like 8-10 in this year's class. firmly mid lotto talent i think.

This is what I'm trying to grasp. I love his potential and what he brings now, but 6 seems rich. So I'd look for a trade-back scenario. But for all I know his stock will rise once teams get him in.

I'm a fan and think his ceiling is quite high, yet he still seems under the radar. Weirdly I think his floor is still a 2way player lol.

yep he's an nba athlete, has very good baseline skills and good iq, is improving, young enough to really be molded too. i think he's the best french kid out of the bunch since wemby.

his rebounding #s p36 last year were great (same w/ stocks) maybe he can still get his REB% up as he matures physically which would be huge for him as projected PF.

[Dalek]

I think if you hate Maulauch's feel than if you gamble on anyone to be a star, I think Noa Essengue should be a in consideration at 7 as he is getting stronger over the past few games. He has this whole Tashaun Prince vibe to him.

Noa Essengue is 6'11 has a 9'3.25'' standing reach better than Alex Sarr and Yves Missi.
62 TS%
He is usually the faster player running end to end.
.80 FTR
Willing passer - neutral ast-to ; mostly in a finisher role.
Youngest player in the class (I think)

Last five games:
51/44/64
12 PPG
5.8 TRB
1.6 AST
1.2 STL
0.6 BLK

I've been beating this drum for weeks, maybe longer.

looks like he could end up being a + version of jerami grant and grant is 12th in class vorp in a pretty strong class

maybe 6 is too high but definitely if that's his mold should be like 8-10 in this year's class. firmly mid lotto talent i think.

I was looking at his advanced numbers and they match up pretty much exactly with Bilal Coulibaly in his draft year. They are practically the same age, and same physical dimensions and a lot of the same flaws. I think Bilal really progressed this year showing his feel for passing.

Bilal was picked at 7 in a pretty decent draft class. He ended up on Washington who ended up trading back a couple seconds and Jarace Walker. Toronto is in a good place to pull off a similar move.

[Thaddy]

Trading for a star is the move. We have 6 15+ scorers. It's gonna be hard to develop a rookie into a superstar without them having the ball

Ingram, IQ, Barnes, and RJ.

Dick and Poeltl?

Dick isn't going to get a lot of minutes next year. Removing him turned us into a top 5 defense lol. Poeltl also has an expanded role this year.

If anything we should be looking to do a pump and dump trade with Dick for this reason. In negotiations teams draw at anything they can to drive down a players value. A stats drop from 2nd to 3rd year would definitely hurt him.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I've been beating this drum for weeks, maybe longer.

looks like he could end up being a + version of jerami grant and grant is 12th in class vorp in a pretty strong class

maybe 6 is too high but definitely if that's his mold should be like 8-10 in this year's class. firmly mid lotto talent i think.

I was looking at his advanced numbers and they match up pretty much exactly with Bilal Coulibaly in his draft year. They are practically the same age, and same physical dimensions and a lot of the same flaws. I think Bilal really progressed this year showing his feel for passing.

Bilal was picked at 7 in a pretty decent draft class. He ended up on Washington who ended up trading back a couple seconds and Jarace Walker. Toronto is in a good place to pull off a similar move.

different players, essengue is a power foward and while you're right the adv stats are comparable essengue still clears him a little bit and then some more factoring in age assuming comp is comparable. most importantly the growth has been better over 2 yrs pre-nba span and i think positionally he just projects better to PF than BC did to wing. the types of looks he gets should keep his 2pt% high early and he is getting better fast at protecting the ball and making solid reads.

[billy_hoyle]

here's my t8 for now but my board changes daily based on new data and things i absorb so grain of salt and also not considering a bunch of guys like stirtz who are likely returning

1. Flagg
2. Queen
3. Fears (measurement dependent)
4. Maluach
5. Broome
6. Essengue
7. Harper
8. Edgecombe

Not a single game played, but my board changes daily...

Why even post when your opinion changes with the wind?

sorry for not locking in all my opinions and being close minded, seems like a great way to evaluate players

just a sorry passive aggressive post from you yet again, as if nobody is constantly changing their board up until draft day (note: every single person on the planet does)

Sorry, what's passive aggressive about my post?

I find your posts (historically) very fleeting, but strangely also very definitive.

You're the poster on this site, that every draft cycle, has very strong opinions on prospects. People try and discuss prospects with you, and you say stuff like 'Podz was great at x and his value is y and I had him z on my big board'.

The fact your big board is constantly changing undermines your 'argument' style IMO. I'm using argument in the classic sense here.

All I'm saying.

I typically enjoy your posts.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Not a single game played, but my board changes daily...

Why even post when your opinion changes with the wind?

sorry for not locking in all my opinions and being close minded, seems like a great way to evaluate players

just a sorry passive aggressive post from you yet again, as if nobody is constantly changing their board up until draft day (note: every single person on the planet does)

Sorry, what's passive aggressive about my post?

I find your posts (historically) very fleeting, but strangely also very definitive.

You're the poster on this site, that every draft cycle, has very strong opinions on prospects. People try and discuss prospects with you, and you say stuff like 'Podz was great at x and his value is y and I had him z on my big board'.

The fact your big board is constantly changing undermines your 'argument' style IMO. I'm using argument in the classic sense here.

All I'm saying.

I typically enjoy your posts.

and i didn't fully come around on podz until i reviewed all of his possessions in may, got dirt about his mentality/work ethic, got his official measurements and more data among other things

i can tell you straight up right now queen and fears look like #2 and #3 creators to me. there are a whole bunch of guys i have already exposed as fraudulent like danny wolf who is a darling in some circles and guys i am unwaveringly high on like kalkbrenner and broome.

i haven't ruled out DH, Tre or Ace but nothing has really convinced me yet that DH is gonna stroke it well in nba, that tre is gonna get to hole and facilitate OTD or that ace is gonna get his **** together.

surprisingly enough i'm more open to idea that ace is actually 75% free throw shooter so his % there isn't damning (too small of a sample this year from line) and that he might be able to pull off MPJish type outcome in right system. when evaluating him and tre the fact he does more positionally positive things w/ rebounds and stocks and def potential is appealing to me more.

and this is where what occurs in next months matters in order to sort those guys out

in terms of guys who might be big time late risers for me i'm looking at pettiford, thiero, starting to reconsider nique again but he might just be devin carter-esque. dimensions matter too, if some guards measure in w 6'9+ WS that is eye-opening for NBA potential and same w/ wings w/ 7'2+ WS

[RomaniaLuvTR]

I am off Maluach, Kasp and Demin train, i want Tre Queen or Fears

[Tripod]

Nothing wrong with people changing their minds on guys as they gather more info.

The draft is 2.5 months away and not only will posters lists change, but NBA's lists will as well

[BoyzNTheHood]

I am off Maluach, Kasp and Demin train, i want Tre Queen or Fears

Tre’s going to be a beast, but he’s probably locked into that top 5.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I am off Maluach, Kasp and Demin train, i want Tre Queen or Fears

Tre’s going to be a beast, but he’s probably locked into that top 5.

tre is the most talented 2 level scorer on the planet at 19

the problem is that if he goes forward in love with the middy and hunting them instead of hunting the rim more and finding guys off the dribble it's gonna bottleneck his AST% and he's going to have few paths to being more than just a run of the mill volume scorer for a mediocre team

i discussed this in-depth with someone recently but if tre is doomed when it comes to getting to hole he MIGHT still be worth a high pick but only if he ends up on a team that will demand he shoots more 3s and less middies to where his 3par teeters on .600 and also keeps his TOV% down to the special place it's at right now while still dishing out like 4 AST/36.

it's a really tough call for me rn

[BoyzNTheHood]

I am off Maluach, Kasp and Demin train, i want Tre Queen or Fears

Tre’s going to be a beast, but he’s probably locked into that top 5.

tre is the most talented 2 level scorer on the planet at 19

the problem is that if he goes forward in love with the middy and hunting them instead of hunting the rim more and finding guys off the dribble it's gonna bottleneck his AST% and he's going to have few paths to being more than just a run of the mill volume scorer for a mediocre team

i discussed this in-depth with someone recently but if tre is doomed when it comes to getting to hole he MIGHT still be worth a high pick but only if he ends up on a team that will demand he shoots more 3s and less middies to where his 3par teeters on .600 and also keeps his TOV% down to the special place it's at right now while still dishing out like 4 AST/36.

it's a really tough call for me rn

I’m taking him top5 because of his ability to shoot the 3, and especially the pull up fastbreak 3 which is an unguardable shot unless you’re trailing him on the play and he doesn’t see you. That shot alone is enough for me to warrant a top 5 selection for Tre Johnson in this class.

[Tripod]

Is it fair to say drafting Tre, gives you RJ's replacement in 2 years when RJ's contract is up?

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Tre’s going to be a beast, but he’s probably locked into that top 5.

tre is the most talented 2 level scorer on the planet at 19

the problem is that if he goes forward in love with the middy and hunting them instead of hunting the rim more and finding guys off the dribble it's gonna bottleneck his AST% and he's going to have few paths to being more than just a run of the mill volume scorer for a mediocre team

i discussed this in-depth with someone recently but if tre is doomed when it comes to getting to hole he MIGHT still be worth a high pick but only if he ends up on a team that will demand he shoots more 3s and less middies to where his 3par teeters on .600 and also keeps his TOV% down to the special place it's at right now while still dishing out like 4 AST/36.

it's a really tough call for me rn

I’m taking him top5 because of his ability to shoot the 3, and especially the pull up fastbreak 3 which is an unguardable shot unless you’re trailing him on the play and he doesn’t see you. That shot alone is enough for me to warrant a top 5 selection for Tre Johnson in this class.

yeah he has crazy deep range but is he gonna start launching circus shots like steph every game to get his 3par up or is he too hard wired to hunt for midrange jumpers. he has ZERO room for error given how weak he is on glass and D and getting to rim.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Is it fair to say drafting Tre, gives you RJ's replacement in 2 years when RJ's contract is up?

In my opinion RJ is a seriously flawed player. It’s nice that he’s Canadian, but something as elementary as going right is going to get him shut down in the playoffs.