Official Scottie Barnes Thread

[DelAbbot]

Ya. He is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw people low key throwing shade at him after they beat us and it was like... Welp. I saw a star player. Don't know if he has the athletic ability to be KG or AD but he's at least going to be Bosh good.

He's way smarter than KG and Bosh. I got **** for comparing him to Duncan before the draft, but he definitely gives off Duncan vibes.

lol KG is as smart as Duncan if not more. Did you watch that era?

[pingpongrac]

A major flaw in your framing of this statistic is the fact that Scottie is still very hesitant to attempt catch and shoot jumpers/threes which eliminates a lot of assist opportunities for his teammates. With the exception of Mobley, those other rookies are primarily jump shooters averaging 5+ 3FGA. Barnes is also averaging a significantly higher amount of OREB in which he generally converts the putback, so his AST FGM% is already going to be lower by default.

The team does need to do a bit better of a job finding Scottie on his way to the rim (either as the roll man or cutting from the wings), but he also needs to be more quick and decisive whenever he gets the ball. Scottie has a tendency to hold the ball on the perimeter looking for a cutting/open teammate then ends up creating his own offence off the bounce. That should be looked at as a positive though.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Nick Nurse does say he wants him to take more shots so i dunno what the deal is

The personnel is the problem.

It's on Nurse as well, he doesn't have a disciplined offence system. He's a savant on the defence end but Lowry had been carrying him and the team when it comes to any semblance of an offensive system

Nurse was spoiled by having a PG like Lowry. High IQ, gets others involved at a high level, et

Nurse already trusts FVV as the same type of player as well and that was extended between the time with both Lowry and FVV and to now.

FVV acknowledged he was holding the ball too long earlier this season as well. It did seem to make a difference and probably needs half a season to find trust in his teammates. FVV probably doesn’t trust Barnes or his newer teammates as much but it’s going to take time. Hence why doesn’t work with Barnes more in a PnR or just giving him the ball.

Barnes also does have his weakness like ISO moves, jumpers beyond 20 feet, etc. and that’s going to take half a season to build that trust in his repertoire.

[Bruin]

A major flaw in your framing of this statistic is the fact that Scottie is still very hesitant to attempt catch and shoot jumpers/threes which eliminates a lot of assist opportunities for his teammates. With the exception of Mobley, those other rookies are primarily jump shooters averaging 5+ 3FGA. Barnes is also averaging a significantly higher amount of OREB in which he generally converts the putback, so his AST FGM% is already going to be lower by default.

The team does need to do a bit better of a job finding Scottie on his way to the rim (either as the roll man or cutting from the wings), but he also needs to be more quick and decisive whenever he gets the ball. Scottie has a tendency to hold the ball on the perimeter looking for a cutting/open teammate then ends up creating his own offence off the bounce. That should be looked at as a positive though.

Scottie actually has shown to be willing to take catch and shoot jumpers in the midrange. The problem is that he hardly gets those passes. Most of the passes he gets are not in scoring position

[10giz]

Ya. He is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw people low key throwing shade at him after they beat us and it was like... Welp. I saw a star player. Don't know if he has the athletic ability to be KG or AD but he's at least going to be Bosh good.

He's way smarter than KG and Bosh. I got **** for comparing him to Duncan before the draft, but he definitely gives off Duncan vibes.

He may be smarter than KG, but he is nowhere near the absolute freak athlete KG was.

KG had Lebron level athleticism coming in. 7'5 wingspan. 45" vert.

Nor does he have his all-time aggressiveness and intensity. Nowhere near similar players.

Duncan...

1st all time total rebounds ACC/2nd all time NCAA (1270)
1st all time rebounds per game ACC/9th all time NCAA (12.3)
1 all time blocks ACC/4th all time NCAA (481)
1st all time blocks per game ACC/20th all time NCAA (3.8)

Won nearly every accolade other than a national title over 4 years at Wake Forest.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=duncati01&p1yrfrom=1998&p1yrto=1998&player_id2=mobleev01&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022

Honestly, its just bad process to compare anybody to once in a lifetime player. Not to mention the level of competition back then, especially at 4 and 5.

21 points - 11.9 rebounds - 2.7 assists - 2.5 blocks - 0.7 steals

All NBA 1st team. All-D 2nd team. All star. Rookie year.

Mobley can have a HOF career without needing to become KG or TD.

[Raps in 4]

I saw people low key throwing shade at him after they beat us and it was like... Welp. I saw a star player. Don't know if he has the athletic ability to be KG or AD but he's at least going to be Bosh good.

He's way smarter than KG and Bosh. I got **** for comparing him to Duncan before the draft, but he definitely gives off Duncan vibes.

He may be smarter than KG, but he is nowhere near the absolute freak athlete KG was.

KG had Lebron level athleticism coming in. 7'5 wingspan. 45" vert.

Nor does he have his all-time aggressiveness and intensity. Nowhere near similar players.

Duncan...

1st all time total rebounds ACC/2nd all time NCAA (1270)
1st all time rebounds per game ACC/9th all time NCAA (12.3)
1 all time blocks ACC/4th all time NCAA (481)
1st all time blocks per game ACC/20th all time NCAA (3.8)

Won nearly every accolade other than a national title over 4 years at Wake Forest.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=duncati01&p1yrfrom=1998&p1yrto=1998&player_id2=mobleev01&p2yrfrom=2022&p2yrto=2022

Honestly, its just bad process to compare anybody to once in a lifetime player. Not to mention the level of competition back then, especially at 4 and 5.

21 points - 11.9 rebounds - 2.7 assists - 2.5 blocks - 0.7 steals

All NBA 1st team. All-D 2nd team. All star. Rookie year.

Mobley can have a HOF career without needing to become KG or TD.

No it's not. People say the same about every young player. Nobody thought MJ would become the GOAT until he did. No one thought Steph would become the GOAT shooter until he did.

Will Mobley reach a similar level of impact to Duncan? Who knows. He certainly has the tools to be an all-time great big and his game compares favourably to other all-time greats.

[pingpongrac]

A major flaw in your framing of this statistic is the fact that Scottie is still very hesitant to attempt catch and shoot jumpers/threes which eliminates a lot of assist opportunities for his teammates. With the exception of Mobley, those other rookies are primarily jump shooters averaging 5+ 3FGA. Barnes is also averaging a significantly higher amount of OREB in which he generally converts the putback, so his AST FGM% is already going to be lower by default.

The team does need to do a bit better of a job finding Scottie on his way to the rim (either as the roll man or cutting from the wings), but he also needs to be more quick and decisive whenever he gets the ball. Scottie has a tendency to hold the ball on the perimeter looking for a cutting/open teammate then ends up creating his own offence off the bounce. That should be looked at as a positive though.

Scottie actually has shown to be willing to take catch and shoot jumpers in the midrange. The problem is that he hardly gets those passes. Most of the passes he gets are not in scoring position

Scottie has attempted just 17 catch and shoot jumpers so far. Boucher is averaging more C&S jumpers in 1/3 of the minutes and Svi is averaging the same amount of C&S jumpers as Barnes in basically half as many minutes.

Considering more than half of Scottie's 13.8 FGA come from a combination of transition (3.3), putbacks (2.0) and isolation (1.8), it's no surprise most of his FGM have been unassisted. He is also taking just 1.1 C&S midrange jumpers in 35 MPG and has attempted only 10 total threes. Scottie's and our style as a team just isn't very conducive to racking up assists.

[10giz]

I saw people low key throwing shade at him after they beat us and it was like... Welp. I saw a star player. Don't know if he has the athletic ability to be KG or AD but he's at least going to be Bosh good.

He's way smarter than KG and Bosh. I got **** for comparing him to Duncan before the draft, but he definitely gives off Duncan vibes.

lol KG is as smart as Duncan if not more. Did you watch that era?

Sorry I can't take anybody seriously who 10 games in put a rookies outlook at the greatest bigs of all time levels.

These people clearly don't know what guys like Robinson, Shaq, or even Zo did in their rookie years.

[Reeko]

He's way smarter than KG and Bosh. I got **** for comparing him to Duncan before the draft, but he definitely gives off Duncan vibes.

lol KG is as smart as Duncan if not more. Did you watch that era?

Sorry I can't take anybody seriously who 10 games in put a rookies outlook at the greatest bigs of all time levels.

These people clearly don't know what guys like Robinson, Shaq, or even Zo did in their rookie years.

Shaq is a freak of nature and to my knowledge hasn't been and shouldn't be compared to. As for Robinson and Zo, they were 24 and 22 respectively as rookies. Could Mobley average 20 and 10 by the time he's 22? I think so. Could he average 24 and 12 by the time he's 24? Possibly. The real question is can he average 3 blocks per game like those two did? Given how much the league has changed that's up for debate.

[10giz]

lol KG is as smart as Duncan if not more. Did you watch that era?

Sorry I can't take anybody seriously who 10 games in put a rookies outlook at the greatest bigs of all time levels.

These people clearly don't know what guys like Robinson, Shaq, or even Zo did in their rookie years.

Shaq is a freak of nature and to my knowledge hasn't been and shouldn't be compared to. As for Robinson and Zo, they were 24 and 22 respectively as rookies. Could Mobley average 20 and 10 by the team he's 22? I think so. Could he average 24 and 12 by the time he's 24? Possibly. The real question is can he average 3 blocks per game like those two did? Given how much the league has changed that's up for debate.

That's true, age matter I cannot deny that point.

But I think those guys doing that with the talent that was around makes their accomplishments even more impressive.

League wide BPG is about 0.1 - 0.2 lower than the 90s even though there are about 8-10 more FGA today compared to then.

Nobody has even hit 3.7+ since Ratliff in 2000.

Its not just the blocks per game.Its that these guys did it while being their teams #1 scorers, post defenders, rebounders and overall best players (for the most part).

I dont want to take anything away from Mobley he's hyper exciting as a prospect but he needs to first get to a level whereas he can expect to eclipse the (defensive) careers of guys like D12, Camby, Draymond, Ben Wallace, Marion, Boston KG, and Gobert.

Those are already some of the best big defenders of the last 20 years.

Wallace won DPOY 4 times! Tied with Mutombo for most ever.

D12 + Gobert 3 each.

[Madhouse]

matches the eye test.

also, should we rename this the Evan Mobley thread?

[links135]

Sorry I can't take anybody seriously who 10 games in put a rookies outlook at the greatest bigs of all time levels.

These people clearly don't know what guys like Robinson, Shaq, or even Zo did in their rookie years.

Shaq is a freak of nature and to my knowledge hasn't been and shouldn't be compared to. As for Robinson and Zo, they were 24 and 22 respectively as rookies. Could Mobley average 20 and 10 by the team he's 22? I think so. Could he average 24 and 12 by the time he's 24? Possibly. The real question is can he average 3 blocks per game like those two did? Given how much the league has changed that's up for debate.

That's true, age matter I cannot deny that point.

But I think those guys doing that with the talent that was around makes their accomplishments even more impressive.

League wide BPG is about 0.1 - 0.2 lower than the 90s even though there are about 8-10 more FGA today compared to then.

Nobody has even hit 3.7+ since Ratliff in 2000.

Its not just the blocks per game.Its that these guys did it while being their teams #1 scorers, post defenders, rebounders and overall best players (for the most part).

I dont want to take anything away from Mobley he's hyper exciting as a prospect but he needs to first get to a level whereas he can expect to eclipse the (defensive) careers of guys like D12, Camby, Draymond, Ben Wallace, Marion, Boston KG, and Gobert.

Those are already some of the best big defenders of the last 20 years.

Wallace won DPOY 4 times! Tied with Mutombo for most ever.

D12 + Gobert 3 each.

Well I mean it's alot harder to block 3's

[links135]

A major flaw in your framing of this statistic is the fact that Scottie is still very hesitant to attempt catch and shoot jumpers/threes which eliminates a lot of assist opportunities for his teammates. With the exception of Mobley, those other rookies are primarily jump shooters averaging 5+ 3FGA. Barnes is also averaging a significantly higher amount of OREB in which he generally converts the putback, so his AST FGM% is already going to be lower by default.

The team does need to do a bit better of a job finding Scottie on his way to the rim (either as the roll man or cutting from the wings), but he also needs to be more quick and decisive whenever he gets the ball. Scottie has a tendency to hold the ball on the perimeter looking for a cutting/open teammate then ends up creating his own offence off the bounce. That should be looked at as a positive though.

Scottie actually has shown to be willing to take catch and shoot jumpers in the midrange. The problem is that he hardly gets those passes. Most of the passes he gets are not in scoring position

Scottie has attempted just 17 catch and shoot jumpers so far. Boucher is averaging more C&S jumpers in 1/3 of the minutes and Svi is averaging the same amount of C&S jumpers as Barnes in basically half as many minutes.

Considering more than half of Scottie's 13.8 FGA come from a combination of transition (3.3), putbacks (2.0) and isolation (1.8), it's no surprise most of his FGM have been unassisted. He is also taking just 1.1 C&S midrange jumpers in 35 MPG and has attempted only 10 total threes. Scottie's and our style as a team just isn't very conducive to racking up assists.

Well I mean the entire Raptors team outside Barnes attempt a whopping .8 midrange Catch and Shoot shots a game.

It should be noted though all of OG, Trent and FVV are making 42%+ on catch and shoot 3's, it's their pullups that are complete ass.

OG's doing okay for less than 10 at 48%, but Trent, FVV and Precious are shooting 43% or under. Which makes Barnes 60% for less than 10 even more impressive.

Bigger problem I think is no one is really shooting well from FVV's passes except Birch from 2 point and Svi from 3point. (a combined 1.7 shots a game)

I think Barnes can improve his passing for 3 point shots by the looks of it, but it's also worth noting his worst shooting comes from FVV's passes at the 2point range. Something probably related to FVV's size.

And while it's not many Barnes is still shooting 60% on C&S 2's. (In fact he's 9th in the league in C&S 2's per game)

Boucher for the record has more because of C&S 3's, and he's shooting 22% from there. So I mean.......ok.

[10giz]

Shaq is a freak of nature and to my knowledge hasn't been and shouldn't be compared to. As for Robinson and Zo, they were 24 and 22 respectively as rookies. Could Mobley average 20 and 10 by the team he's 22? I think so. Could he average 24 and 12 by the time he's 24? Possibly. The real question is can he average 3 blocks per game like those two did? Given how much the league has changed that's up for debate.

That's true, age matter I cannot deny that point.

But I think those guys doing that with the talent that was around makes their accomplishments even more impressive.

League wide BPG is about 0.1 - 0.2 lower than the 90s even though there are about 8-10 more FGA today compared to then.

Nobody has even hit 3.7+ since Ratliff in 2000.

Its not just the blocks per game.Its that these guys did it while being their teams #1 scorers, post defenders, rebounders and overall best players (for the most part).

I dont want to take anything away from Mobley he's hyper exciting as a prospect but he needs to first get to a level whereas he can expect to eclipse the (defensive) careers of guys like D12, Camby, Draymond, Ben Wallace, Marion, Boston KG, and Gobert.

Those are already some of the best big defenders of the last 20 years.

Wallace won DPOY 4 times! Tied with Mutombo for most ever.

D12 + Gobert 3 each.

Well I mean it's alot harder to block 3's

It's also harder to be the best defender in the league if you're not going to be guarding the best players all game long who mostly spend their time on the perimeter.

That's why Mobley spent more time guarding Robinson and Noel today and Barnes spent almost a third of his minutes guarding Durant and Harden.

Go see the list of who Mobley has spent the majority of his time guarding. (He has had a few tough assignments and great performance including Bridges, AD, Collins).

Then go see who Barnes has...Mobley, Tatum, Doncic, Harden, Durant, Demar, Beal, Sabots, Kuzma.

Now if Mobley becomes an elite perimeter defender, different story but I don't see it. I value elite on ball defence, perimeter excellence and high minute defensive intensity/consistency above post D, help D, counting stats and general interior dominance. I don't, again, want to take anything away from Mobley he's incredible. But same reason why I don't think Gobert will ever help his team win a title.

Bam I feel is definitely an outlier here. If Mobley follows that path, I'll gladly shut my mouth.

But Mobley is being put in a great position by the staff to do his thing and impact the game tremendously without having to spend most of his time no the most challenging assignments. That matters, at least to me.

[HumbleRen]

That's true, age matter I cannot deny that point.

But I think those guys doing that with the talent that was around makes their accomplishments even more impressive.

League wide BPG is about 0.1 - 0.2 lower than the 90s even though there are about 8-10 more FGA today compared to then.

Nobody has even hit 3.7+ since Ratliff in 2000.

Its not just the blocks per game.Its that these guys did it while being their teams #1 scorers, post defenders, rebounders and overall best players (for the most part).

I dont want to take anything away from Mobley he's hyper exciting as a prospect but he needs to first get to a level whereas he can expect to eclipse the (defensive) careers of guys like D12, Camby, Draymond, Ben Wallace, Marion, Boston KG, and Gobert.

Those are already some of the best big defenders of the last 20 years.

Wallace won DPOY 4 times! Tied with Mutombo for most ever.

D12 + Gobert 3 each.

Well I mean it's alot harder to block 3's

It's also harder to be the best defender in the league if you're not going to be guarding the best players all game long who mostly spend their time on the perimeter.

That's why Mobley spent more time guarding Robinson and Noel today and Barnes spent almost a third of his minutes guarding Durant and Harden.

Go see the list of who Mobley has spent the majority of his time guarding. (He has had a few tough assignments and great performance including Bridges, AD, Collins).

Then go see who Barnes has...Mobley, Tatum, Doncic, Harden, Durant, Demar, Beal, Sabots, Kuzma.

Now if Mobley becomes an elite perimeter defender, different story but I don't see it. I value elite on ball defence, perimeter excellence and high minute defensive intensity/consistency above post D, help D, counting stats and general interior dominance. I don't, again, want to take anything away from Mobley he's incredible. But same reason why I don't think Gobert will ever help his team win a title.

Bam I feel is definitely an outlier here. If Mobley follows that path, I'll gladly shut my mouth.

But Mobley is being put in a great position by the staff to do his thing and impact the game tremendously without having to spend most of his time no the most challenging assignments. That matters, at least to me.

Mobley has a way tougher task on defence. He’s anchoring a team with his defence as a rookie. Thats almost unheard of.

Interior defence will always be more important than perimeter defence.

[CptCrunch]

Dunno why Raptors fans talk about Mobley and compare him to Barnes when the Raptors never had a chance to pick him. Rockets and Pistons fans should be crying about Mobley every night.

[720]

Dunno why Raptors fans talk about Mobley and compare him to Barnes when the Raptors never had a chance to pick him. Rockets and Pistons fans should be crying about Mobley every night.

Humbleren is a mobley fan. I think he wanted us to pick him before the draft.

[NinjaBro]

Dunno why Raptors fans talk about Mobley and compare him to Barnes when the Raptors never had a chance to pick him. Rockets and Pistons fans should be crying about Mobley every night.

They've moved on from Jalen Suggs and now need another prospect to feul their insecurities. They can never be happy with what they've got.

[Bruin]

A major flaw in your framing of this statistic is the fact that Scottie is still very hesitant to attempt catch and shoot jumpers/threes which eliminates a lot of assist opportunities for his teammates. With the exception of Mobley, those other rookies are primarily jump shooters averaging 5+ 3FGA. Barnes is also averaging a significantly higher amount of OREB in which he generally converts the putback, so his AST FGM% is already going to be lower by default.

The team does need to do a bit better of a job finding Scottie on his way to the rim (either as the roll man or cutting from the wings), but he also needs to be more quick and decisive whenever he gets the ball. Scottie has a tendency to hold the ball on the perimeter looking for a cutting/open teammate then ends up creating his own offence off the bounce. That should be looked at as a positive though.

Scottie actually has shown to be willing to take catch and shoot jumpers in the midrange. The problem is that he hardly gets those passes. Most of the passes he gets are not in scoring position

Scottie has attempted just 17 catch and shoot jumpers so far. Boucher is averaging more C&S jumpers in 1/3 of the minutes and Svi is averaging the same amount of C&S jumpers as Barnes in basically half as many minutes.

Considering more than half of Scottie's 13.8 FGA come from a combination of transition (3.3), putbacks (2.0) and isolation (1.8), it's no surprise most of his FGM have been unassisted. He is also taking just 1.1 C&S midrange jumpers in 35 MPG and has attempted only 10 total threes. Scottie's and our style as a team just isn't very conducive to racking up assists.

Why are we comparing Scottie to Boucher? We all know Boucher is a chucker. Ofc he’s gonna attempt more in less minutes. He’s not a very smart player

[10giz]

Well I mean it's alot harder to block 3's

It's also harder to be the best defender in the league if you're not going to be guarding the best players all game long who mostly spend their time on the perimeter.

That's why Mobley spent more time guarding Robinson and Noel today and Barnes spent almost a third of his minutes guarding Durant and Harden.

Go see the list of who Mobley has spent the majority of his time guarding. (He has had a few tough assignments and great performance including Bridges, AD, Collins).

Then go see who Barnes has...Mobley, Tatum, Doncic, Harden, Durant, Demar, Beal, Sabots, Kuzma.

Now if Mobley becomes an elite perimeter defender, different story but I don't see it. I value elite on ball defence, perimeter excellence and high minute defensive intensity/consistency above post D, help D, counting stats and general interior dominance. I don't, again, want to take anything away from Mobley he's incredible. But same reason why I don't think Gobert will ever help his team win a title.

Bam I feel is definitely an outlier here. If Mobley follows that path, I'll gladly shut my mouth.

But Mobley is being put in a great position by the staff to do his thing and impact the game tremendously without having to spend most of his time no the most challenging assignments. That matters, at least to me.

Mobley has a way tougher task on defence. He’s anchoring a team with his defence as a rookie. Thats almost unheard of.

Interior defence will always be more important than perimeter defence.

Anchoring a team. Sure, but how do you quantify that? How much credit does Allen get doing most of the dirty work rebounding the ball, crashing the offensive glass, banging inside. Is it cause of his blocks? Highlights? Overall performance?

I'm not saying you're wrong man. I'm just trying to see what the data shows.

Do we need a defensive anchor when we have a highly advanced and nuanced defensive system?

Does Suggs not get the credit for being one of the best defenders in the class? How about Mitchell?

Interior defence more important? I mean, I don't think its right to choose one or the other cause it depends on the opponent. Overall team defence matters more but the only DPOYs that have actually won titles in the last decade are Giannis, Kawhi, and Dray. Marc won one 6-7 years after his DPOY. Chandler won one the year after he won a title with DAL.

When was the last time a team with the best interior defender won the championship?