Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Tripod]

I was a barnes fan, but it seems the bet on himself culture has rubbed on him as well, and it will be a disease getting to our rookies

What are you talking about?

Having a top guy willing to sacrifice pts for assists instead of having tunnel vision is a good thing.

He is FAR from selfish and to suggest it is odd

[tsherkin]

It's more that Jak is currently in that role, a complete non-shooter who everyone can ignore, and replace him with Barnes who would be leagues better as an offensive threat that defenses will actually pay attention to.

Actually, I think we regress offensively if Barnes replaces Jak. He's a worse finisher, he also doesn't have any range, he isn't as adept an off-ball guy... I don't actually see how we would be better in that situation. As a 4 or a 3, sure, but not at the 5 for many minutes at all, if he was replacing Poeltl.

I wouldn't be that shocked to see his 3 point % really improve playing so many bad teams coming up. Playing against bad defenses in a low pressure environment could lead to some inflated shooting numbers.

I would. He bricks primarily wide open shots to begin with. He can't really get MORE open against these teams.

[Boogie!]

He's probably the 4th best scorer on the roster, not sure why there's still talk of using him as a hub and having the offense go through him. They wouldn't have gotten Ingram if they still felt like he could become that.

I think it's more that we have seen positive value from his playmaking, so there's some sense that we should continue taking advantage of that ability, even if we need to drop his overall usage some and change how he approaches scoring.

It's more that Jak is currently in that role, a complete non-shooter who everyone can ignore, and replace him with Barnes who would be leagues better as an offensive threat that defenses will actually pay attention to.

Not sure how BI, a guy who was plan B to a plan A that was getting Wiggins or a dead contract factors into it.

Always weird that the thought goes to "he isn't Jokic? Can't do that then" in these convos when the alternative is some roleplayer who is currently also not Jokic in the role.

Everyone can ignore yak? They leave Barnes wide open from 3 because he can’t make ****. Jakob actually makes Barnes playmaking look a lot better with his ability to make these floaters that no other centre can make.

[tsherkin]

Everyone can ignore yak? They leave Barnes wide open from 3 because he can’t make ****. Jakob actually makes Barnes playmaking look a lot better with his ability to make these floaters that no other centre can make.

Other than Jokic.

But yeah, Jak does a bunch of good for us. He's like a 13/9 guy in 26 mpg roughly over his time as a Raptor the 2nd time around, and rocking like 63-65% TS. He's been wonderful.

[Los_29]

Scottie is in year 4 now and it’s not looking good. BI was a great addition to this team because the ball will be taken out of Scottie’s hands a lot more often. Scottie’s usage needs to be scaled down significantly. He needs to be an uber efficient 12-14ppg scorer. Not a terribly inefficient 20ppg scorer. You can’t have that from a PF.

This just shows you how foolish it was to want the ball taken out of Fred’s, Pascal’s and OG’s hands. Giving more shots to someone without a bag won’t make them better. You gotta have something to work with first.

[Scase]

It's more that Jak is currently in that role, a complete non-shooter who everyone can ignore, and replace him with Barnes who would be leagues better as an offensive threat that defenses will actually pay attention to.

Actually, I think we regress offensively if Barnes replaces Jak. He's a worse finisher, he also doesn't have any range, he isn't as adept an off-ball guy... I don't actually see how we would be better in that situation. As a 4 or a 3, sure, but not at the 5 for many minutes at all, if he was replacing Poeltl.

I wouldn't be that shocked to see his 3 point % really improve playing so many bad teams coming up. Playing against bad defenses in a low pressure environment could lead to some inflated shooting numbers.

I would. He bricks primarily wide open shots to begin with. He can't really get MORE open against these teams.

Dude just went 4/16 and 1/3 from 3 against by far the worst team in the league, and we're out here arguing his 3p% will improve so much against the bad teams lol.

When he can't hit wide open shots, the level of competition doesn't matter.

[tsherkin]

[
Dude just went 4/16 and 1/3 from 3 against by far the worst team in the league, and we're out here arguing his 3p% will improve so much against the bad teams lol.

When he can't hit wide open shots, the level of competition doesn't matter.

We've talked about his 3pt shooting at length in this thread and others. He's missing primarily wide open and open shots, catch-and-shoots and open pull-ups. If he can't hit those, he's never going to be a competent shooter. And he struggles relative to league average from the corners as well.

Scottie's will have to take other avenues to create or find effective scoring opportunities for himself. Roll man and other off-ball stuff are what's left, basically, though his middie from the left mid-post has been encouraging this year.

[PD28]

I thought Scottie would have had a few more leaps by now. His improvement are small and incremental. Let's hope he continues to make improvements - this version aint it offensively.

[tsherkin]

I thought Scottie would have had a few more leaps by now. His improvement are small and incremental. Let's hope he continues to make improvements - this version aint it offensively.

Waiting for him at this pace is a waste of time. We need to shift his role and pivot expectations at this point, try to find other ways to use him, because this isn't working.

[dballislife]

u guys remember first half of last season scottie had his 3 ball around 40%, and then in the second half his 3 ball percentage started with a 2 and brought it down to below 35% to end the season...so for almost 2 seasons now his 3 ball percentage has been around 20 something percent...and this is the time hes suppose to be improving but it looks like his offense is declining for some reason

[tsherkin]

u guys remember first half of last season scottie had his 3 ball around 40%, and then in the second half his 3 ball percentage started with a 2 and brought it down to below 35% to end the season

Yeah. He had his customary month or 2 of hot shooting and then fell off, as he usually does. But he had a shortened season, so the raw percentage stayed a bit higher.

...so for almost 2 seasons now his 3 ball percentage has been around 20 something percent..

He's shot 30.1, 28.1, 34.1 and 26.4% so far. And the 34.1 happened in a 60-game season. I think his norm is pretty clear at this stage.

[PushDaRock]

u guys remember first half of last season scottie had his 3 ball around 40%, and then in the second half his 3 ball percentage started with a 2 and brought it down to below 35% to end the season

Yeah. He had his customary month or 2 of hot shooting and then fell off, as he usually does. But he had a shortened season, so the raw percentage stayed a bit higher.

...so for almost 2 seasons now his 3 ball percentage has been around 20 something percent..

He's shot 30.1, 28.1, 34.1 and 26.4% so far. And the 34.1 happened in a 60-game season. I think his norm is pretty clear at this stage.

This season his monthly 3 point shoot percentages are 18.2%, 28.2%, 27.7%, 26.7%, 27.1%, 12.5%.

He hasn't even broken 30% in any month this year, which is why I think he might be due for one of his hot streaks with the combination of a weak schedule and maybe some reversion to the mean as well because while I think he's a bad 3 point shooter he's probably a bit better than 26.4%.

[tsherkin]

This season his monthly 3 point shoot percentages are 18.2%, 28.2%, 27.7%, 26.7%, 27.1%, 12.5%.

He hasn't even broken 30% in any month this year, which is why I think he might be due for one of his hot streaks with the combination of a weak schedule and maybe some reversion to the mean as well because while I think he's a bad 3 point shooter he's probably a bit better than 26.4%.

No doubt, he has been especially useless this year. At the FT line, too. I expect he's more of a 28-30% guy than a 26% guy, for sure.

[Scase]

I thought Scottie would have had a few more leaps by now. His improvement are small and incremental. Let's hope he continues to make improvements - this version aint it offensively.

It's time to be realistic with our expectations, I still think he's a really good player, but an offensive option he ain't. IMO, he could have been a really good mid range to paint guy, but we've spent multiple years of him taking bad shots and going away from his strengths. Too much time wasted on that and he can't even be considered below average, he was already coming into the league with no offensive game, and we spent too much time on the wrong skill sets, he will continue to improve over the years, but this is probably what we can expect from him moving forward, with improvements to efficiency.

It's probably too early to say his development has been screwed right up, but we’ve done a pretty bad job so far.

[dTox]

I am very frustrated that he always goes back to the same trainer every single offseason and comes back with the same skillset during the season. Would it kill him to explore another venue to Improve his game? How about a visit to Drew Hanlan this summer? He did wonders for guys like Giannis, Embiid, Tatum, etc. I hope the org puts some pressure on him to try a different approach than going back to the same dude in Florida he grew up with

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[LoveMyRaps]

4/16 against the Wizards is actually embarrassing.

Scottie has a lot of work to do.

Maybe he can start by playing against some real competition over the summer and not the damn Ryerson varsity team.

[Son Goku 25]

Reading these comments would make you think he's a bust lol

I agree we gotta lower our expectations a bit on the offensive side which is what the org probably saw and wanted to get Ingram. He excels as a PF and as a play maker similar to Jokic than having the ball in his hands most of the time like Luka or Bron. He's unselfish and actually a great paint defender plus rebounds. I still like him as our Lowry/Draymond type of impact player but he can actually score much better being a 3rd option on a championship team.

[HangTime]

Reading these comments would make you think he's a bust lol

I agree we gotta lower our expectations a bit on the offensive side which is what the org probably saw and wanted to get Ingram. He excels as a PF and as a play maker similar to Jokic than having the ball in his hands most of the time like Luka or Bron. He's unselfish and actually a great paint defender plus rebounds. I still like him as our Lowry/Draymond type of impact player but he can actually score much better being a 3rd option on a championship team.

I don't think people are watching the games.

He may be taking odd shots, and making some odd moves, but overall the focus is team development. The lower competition (current schedule) is a the perfect time.

Plus, him playing hurt is all the more reason to try it this way.

We know what he can do against way better competition.

[AbC?]

Painfully mid.

[HangTime]

I'll leave it at this.

A small percentage of people see/envision the greatness early on (I saw it in early in his rookie year). He's like a NBA's chameleon, greatness hidden in plain sight.

It took until his first development year, to "show" the "all-starness".

People want to say he's in year 4, but it's not a normal year 4, just look at the team as a whole.
If you don't understand that, I don't know what else to tell you.

But, Him being the selfless player, wants his teammates to develop (since the OG trade). He'll practice his odd shots and moves in between.
They'll be a few games he'll "explode" just to remind you he can do it.

But in the mean time, be patient.