Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[mrdressup]

If you treat this simply in asset management terms it is a solid move. Both Brown and KO would net you nothing on their own, and they had to go to offer a possibility of consolidating that money into a player. That first on its own only gets you a choice of whatever solid vet might be available (we don't get anywhere near an all-star for a mid to low first). To draft with the IND pick would have been a commitment to taking the long road to knowing what you have with a younger player (could easily be a miss or a waste of time) . A quality tradable asset that is signed doesn't represent a step back. It's there to assess, rehabilitate, try out and test the fit of. The question remains around what are we doing for size and strength going forward. We're not a tough team. We are lanky and undersized. We are probably fine with offensive talent for the time being. That's not what will hold us back. We really are a team that is rolling the dice on Barnes being better in 1A impact than what he is showing now. I don't see it, but that's not my call. If a team takes on the personality of their best player we are going to struggle to be forceful going forward, imo. I'd be more confident if dogged determination of the physical kind was in Barnes character. He seems to more concerned with developing an outside shot and a fadeaway. We're getting a shooter that can take those 7 threes that SB is forcing.

[ChillRelaxDude]

RJ going to make a killer 6th man

Yeah, I think one of the two will play the bulk of his minutes with the bench. Not sure either comes off the bench but one of them sits early first quarters next year, instead of Barnes.

Maybe.

I think Darko planted the seed last year when he talked about RJ's fav player being Manu.

RJ's biggest issue is defense imo. Playing the 6th man role will make that less of an issue and if he is having one of his "on" nights, he can end the game.

I agree. It's such a shame that NBA players typically have such fragile egos when it comes to starting vs bench. Winning teams have to make personal sacrifices and I really hope a player like RJ is mature enough to see that. If all else fails, first subs off to maximize time with the reserves would be excellent for him.

[dagger]

My thoughts. A good trade. It increases the asset base, and brings in a player who is quite complementary to Scottie. If he signs a reasonable contract, fine. I'll take a bit of a higher number (say, $40m) for a flatlined contract. If they can't sign him, they can do a sign and trade to recover some, maybe all of the value they gave up for him. Yes, down the road a year or two it makes more trades likely, and some tough decisions on first extensions for young players, but that is a good thing to have. The East is pitiful and old once you get past Cleveland and Boston. Even teams with more youth like Indiana have to face tough calls, like do they re-sign Turner when he hits free agency. I don't see our draft situation emperilled this year. It's not hard to find reasons to sit guys out of an abundance of caution. They won't win any games before the ASG, and that leaves about 20 games to finesse after the ASG. Just playing the kids hard is one way, and quite ethical.

[StopitLeo]

JLew: "They've preached patience and staying the course, and this is anything but that. This feels like a very shortsighted desperate attempt to expedite the process"

Sums up how I feel about the trade. I just don't see the point.

Would have preferred to use our expiring to get picks or low-end prospects. Instead we give up 2 picks

In essence you’d be counting on low-end prospects or those picks, likely in the future and also late 1sts or 2nds, to become better than Ingram.

The problem with the argument Lewenberg makes about this being too soon is that we only have multiple picks in 2026. There’s always a risk with trades since we can’t predict the future but the opportunity to buy low on Ingram today might be better than any options available next year. Honestly, acquiring talent of his level through trade is rare for what it cost.

[Gavin_TDThree]

So glad some of you are not the GM. This is the type of move you make 10/10 times.

Ingram is a great buy low candidate who, when healthy, has proven to be an unguardable 3 level scorer and a decent defender with tremendous length. He has not yet peaked imo and will be motivated with the raps.

There's a few elements to the trade that need to be considered.

In a vacuum sure, BI is a good player to add. Especially since we cannot score in the half court. But looking at the context of this team overall the move doesn't make a lot of sense.

BI is always hurt, there's no two ways around this. He is always hurt. He also operates heavily in the mid range (99th percentile i believe is what I read). SB operates in this area. RJ needs to get downhill to be effective. JP needs to be in the paint to be effective. Plus, BI's defence is nothing to write home about.

For midrange heavy players, spacing is really key, we don't have that with this team. The fit on this current roster is weird and clearly some follow up trades/signings will be needed.

The second piece is that if we look at where this team is in the current standings, we are the 5th worst team. Meaning we have a real shot at a top end player who fits the team's timeline.

The third piece, our FO preached patience and staying the course. Trading for BI is the opposite of this statement. If we were overachieving this year and they wanted to add then sure, why not. But we aren't overachieving, if anything we are right where we are supposed to be.

We did not give up much to get BI which is great! We turned an expiring, a backup big, and a 15-20th pick into a 27 year old scorer. That's not bad at all and based on a pure trade standpoint I think we won it.

I just don't think the trade makes sense in the context of the team

[YogurtProducer]

JLew: "They've preached patience and staying the course, and this is anything but that. This feels like a very shortsighted desperate attempt to expedite the process"

Sums up how I feel about the trade. I just don't see the point.

Would have preferred to use our expiring to get picks or low-end prospects. Instead we give up 2 picks

I've said this for a long time already...Masai didn't trade Pascal and OG in order to bottom out for years and years as other teams have and are still doing.

A multiple year tank was NEVER the plan. They purposely traded for RJ and IQ when they could have had IQ and picks. They took one of the picks that came back in the Pascal trade to get Ochai (already 23 years old at the time of trade) and Kelly. Masai values actual players over mystery box draft picks.

We all should have expected that Masai would try to do what he did with Kawhi...obtain a star at his lowest trade value...that is precisely what he did here.

Gotta disagree. IQ and picks was never an option because we had to take back salary.

If anything, RJ + picks might’ve been an option, but not IQ + picks

[delaney8]

In isolation trade value is fine if they can get him signed for a reasonable contract (hopefully 35 but I am probably dreaming).

Bigger problem is I don’t see how he fits. We have too many guys who can’t shoot 3s so the spacing will be bad. And we have several guys that you can attack on d.

But most importantly we still lack a true number 1 guy. Maybe you can use him in a package to get a 1? But I just don’t see how this team becomes a championship caliber team the way it is currently constructed.

[refshateRaps]

Yeah, I think one of the two will play the bulk of his minutes with the bench. Not sure either comes off the bench but one of them sits early first quarters next year, instead of Barnes.

Maybe.

I think Darko planted the seed last year when he talked about RJ's fav player being Manu.

RJ's biggest issue is defense imo. Playing the 6th man role will make that less of an issue and if he is having one of his "on" nights, he can end the game.

I agree. It's such a shame that NBA players typically have such fragile egos when it comes to starting vs bench. Winning teams have to make personal sacrifices and I really hope a player like RJ is mature enough to see that. If all else fails, first subs off to maximize time with the reserves would be excellent for him.

There are tens of millions of dollars at play for these players. Unless they are vets on a contending team, I don't blame them.

[YogurtProducer]

So glad some of you are not the GM. This is the type of move you make 10/10 times.

Ingram is a great buy low candidate who, when healthy, has proven to be an unguardable 3 level scorer and a decent defender with tremendous length. He has not yet peaked imo and will be motivated with the raps.

There's a few elements to the trade that need to be considered.

In a vacuum sure, BI is a good player to add. Especially since we cannot score in the half court. But looking at the context of this team overall the move doesn't make a lot of sense.

BI is always hurt, there's no two ways around this. He is always hurt. He also operates heavily in the mid range (99th percentile i believe is what I read). SB operates in this area. RJ needs to get downhill to be effective. JP needs to be in the paint to be effective. Plus, BI's defence is nothing to write home about.

For midrange heavy players, spacing is really key, we don't have that with this team. The fit on this current roster is weird and clearly some follow up trades/signings will be needed.

The second piece is that if we look at where this team is in the current standings, we are the 5th worst team. Meaning we have a real shot at a top end player who fits the team's timeline.

The third piece, our FO preached patience and staying the course. Trading for BI is the opposite of this statement. If we were overachieving this year and they wanted to add then sure, why not. But we aren't overachieving, if anything we are right where we are supposed to be.

We did not give up much to get BI which is great! We turned an expiring, a backup big, and a 15-20th pick into a 27 year old scorer. That's not bad at all and based on a pure trade standpoint I think we won it.

I just don't think the trade makes sense in the context of the team

Ingram is still a guy who puts up 6/7 3’s a night. Hes taking mid range shots instead of at the rim, not instead of from 3.

He’s also been a good shooter historically. IMO there is possibility to scale up his 3 ball a bit to 7/8 takes a night.

Really this move to me signals that next year our offense is gonna be IQ/BI featured more and Barnes moves into a more third option / connector role who is a beast defensively. That’s my hope at least.

Possibly go after Turner to just so we have a stretch 5. That would open it up a lot.

[agkagk]

Maybe.

I think Darko planted the seed last year when he talked about RJ's fav player being Manu.

RJ's biggest issue is defense imo. Playing the 6th man role will make that less of an issue and if he is having one of his "on" nights, he can end the game.

I agree. It's such a shame that NBA players typically have such fragile egos when it comes to starting vs bench. Winning teams have to make personal sacrifices and I really hope a player like RJ is mature enough to see that. If all else fails, first subs off to maximize time with the reserves would be excellent for him.

There are tens of millions of dollars at play for these players. Unless they are vets on a contending team, I don't blame them.

I blame it on the coaching.

I wish they used their substitutes like hockey coaches run whole lines.


Like why not have Kelly o conditioned to sub in and out every couple minutes?

[Merit]

I have a feeling it's the same group that cheered when we traded away a lottery pick for Poetl, that are happy with this trade.

Totally different scenarios. The cost was much too steep for poetl. Almost non existent for ingram. You don't see the difference?

The cost wasn’t even an issue with the trade for Jak. The timing of the trade was.

[mtcan]

JLew: "They've preached patience and staying the course, and this is anything but that. This feels like a very shortsighted desperate attempt to expedite the process"

Sums up how I feel about the trade. I just don't see the point.

Would have preferred to use our expiring to get picks or low-end prospects. Instead we give up 2 picks

I've said this for a long time already...Masai didn't trade Pascal and OG in order to bottom out for years and years as other teams have and are still doing.

A multiple year tank was NEVER the plan. They purposely traded for RJ and IQ when they could have had IQ and picks. They took one of the picks that came back in the Pascal trade to get Ochai (already 23 years old at the time of trade) and Kelly. Masai values actual players over mystery box draft picks.

We all should have expected that Masai would try to do what he did with Kawhi...obtain a star at his lowest trade value...that is precisely what he did here.

Gotta disagree. IQ and picks was never an option because we had to take back salary.

If anything, RJ + picks might’ve been an option, but not IQ + picks

If I recall correctly...the options were:
RJ+IQ

or

IQ+Fournier+filler+protected Dallas FRP+protected Detroit FRP

[Merit]

Why are people saying its the jak trade? how

He wont be out this whole season so hurts this years pick.
Gave up Indys pick which will be likely lotto with no protections.
Have to now re-sign Ingram.

This team is "tanking"

Pick is protected. Ingram will be re-signed. He won’t hurt our tank. He will be “load managed”.

[Thaddy]

In isolation trade value is fine if they can get him signed for a reasonable contract (hopefully 35 but I am probably dreaming).

Bigger problem is I don’t see how he fits. We have too many guys who can’t shoot 3s so the spacing will be bad. And we have several guys that you can attack on d.

But most importantly we still lack a true number 1 guy. Maybe you can use him in a package to get a 1? But I just don’t see how this team becomes a championship caliber team the way it is currently constructed.

IQ, RJ, and Ingram are all pretty good three point shooters. They've all reached or been near 40% at some stage of their careers.

Ingram had one bad playoff series where he came off injury. He can be a championship level scoring option. He needs to have his shot diet updated and playing with Barnes will be easier than Zion.

We become contender by letting these guys get to the playoffs, that would raise their value, and once a player like Zion is available you package one of them with a prospect on our bench and a pick. No one wants picks, everyone wants win now pieces.

[ash_k]

if it wasn't for that OKC series, I would have been much more excited. However, the trade is an absolutely no brainer! a F'ing Steal!

[Merit]

All I gotta say is Miami got Wiggins and we got Ingram.

That gives us the opportunity to leapfrog them potentially as we increased our talent level while they decreased theirs.

We protected the Indy pick 1-4. We still have our own first in that draft.

Ingram is going to be “load managed”, so our tank rolls on.

Like I said, talent aggregation.

[Gavin_TDThree]

So glad some of you are not the GM. This is the type of move you make 10/10 times.

Ingram is a great buy low candidate who, when healthy, has proven to be an unguardable 3 level scorer and a decent defender with tremendous length. He has not yet peaked imo and will be motivated with the raps.

There's a few elements to the trade that need to be considered.

In a vacuum sure, BI is a good player to add. Especially since we cannot score in the half court. But looking at the context of this team overall the move doesn't make a lot of sense.

BI is always hurt, there's no two ways around this. He is always hurt. He also operates heavily in the mid range (99th percentile i believe is what I read). SB operates in this area. RJ needs to get downhill to be effective. JP needs to be in the paint to be effective. Plus, BI's defence is nothing to write home about.

For midrange heavy players, spacing is really key, we don't have that with this team. The fit on this current roster is weird and clearly some follow up trades/signings will be needed.

The second piece is that if we look at where this team is in the current standings, we are the 5th worst team. Meaning we have a real shot at a top end player who fits the team's timeline.

The third piece, our FO preached patience and staying the course. Trading for BI is the opposite of this statement. If we were overachieving this year and they wanted to add then sure, why not. But we aren't overachieving, if anything we are right where we are supposed to be.

We did not give up much to get BI which is great! We turned an expiring, a backup big, and a 15-20th pick into a 27 year old scorer. That's not bad at all and based on a pure trade standpoint I think we won it.


I just don't think the trade makes sense in the context of the team

Ingram is still a guy who puts up 6/7 3’s a night. Hes taking mid range shots instead of at the rim, not instead of from 3.

He’s also been a good shooter historically. IMO there is possibility to scale up his 3 ball a bit to 7/8 takes a night.

Really this move to me signals that next year our offense is gonna be IQ/BI featured more and Barnes moves into a more third option / connector role who is a beast defensively. That’s my hope at least.

Possibly go after Turner to just so we have a stretch 5. That would open it up a lot.

Fair point, this year he did scale up his 3p volume to highest since his All-star season (5 years ago). He shoots a good percentage as well so it's safe to believe he can become a high volume floor spacer. He just doesn't seem to look for that shot as much as we'd need for this team.

I can see what you mean ref IQ/BI/SB. Allow SB to be the playmaking hub is his perfect position. He doesn't have those natural scoring instincts that an IQ or BI have. the RJ/JP fit I just don't see

[ArthurVandelay]

All I gotta say is Miami got Wiggins and we got Ingram.

That gives us the opportunity to leapfrog them potentially as we increased our talent level while they decreased theirs.

We protected the Indy pick 1-4. We still have our own first in that draft.

Ingram is going to be “load managed”, so our tank rolls on.

Like I said, talent aggregation.

Indiana protected their picked top 4. If it is 1-4 next year, it stays with Indy.

[Merit]

They are redoing the two timeline thing again, with Ingram/Poetl being the vets to replace Pascal /Fred. Lesson not learned.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using RealGM mobile app

Masai tries to preach patience knowing he don't got it himself

We could excuse him for being impatient because he knows he's about to be fired by Ed Rogers

Is this a basketball post or a commitment to hate?

[God Squad]

Which picks are being traded and are their protections? I don't love this trade without other moves happening, but the price wasn't too steep (depending on protection/picks).