Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[djsunyc]

[ishoy123]

Reality is that Scottie is never going to be a good 3pt shooter, but that doesn't mean he can't be good offensively... Giannis is the obvious example.

I do expect adding Ingram will unlock Scottie in a way that most people don't expect.

[Tacoma]

Reading these comments would make you think he's a bust lol

I agree we gotta lower our expectations a bit on the offensive side which is what the org probably saw and wanted to get Ingram. He excels as a PF and as a play maker similar to Jokic than having the ball in his hands most of the time like Luka or Bron. He's unselfish and actually a great paint defender plus rebounds. I still like him as our Lowry/Draymond type of impact player but he can actually score much better being a 3rd option on a championship team.

I don't think people are watching the games.

He may be taking odd shots, and making some odd moves, but overall the focus is team development. The lower competition (current schedule) is a the perfect time.

Plus, him playing hurt is all the more reason to try it this way.

We know what he can do against way better competition.

Team development is incongruent with trying to lose and tanking. Instead, we are more focused on individual development, especially that of our younger players like Scottie. If anything, he's shooting more than he ought to because he's trying to develop his shot in live game situations. Next season when we're likely focusing on team effort putting it altogether to hunt for playoffs at which time I expect him to shoot more selectively and developing the team to win games.

I'll leave it at this.

A small percentage of people see/envision the greatness early on (I saw it in early in his rookie year). He's like a NBA's chameleon, greatness hidden in plain sight.

It took until his first development year, to "show" the "all-starness".

People want to say he's in year 4, but it's not a normal year 4, just look at the team as a whole.
If you don't understand that, I don't know what else to tell you.

But, Him being the selfless player, wants his teammates to develop (since the OG trade). He'll practice his odd shots and moves in between.
They'll be a few games he'll "explode" just to remind you he can do it.

But in the mean time, be patient.

I think the concern these days is the "greatness early on" is not materializing as expected. He' not showing the growth that we had hoped for and expected. It's looking like his "selfless" play may be because he's deferring to others out of necessity because he's not good at scoring. If he could shoot like Curry, he'd be shooting more often.

And I don't buy the idea that Year 4 is really year 2 or whatever. This sounds like Bargnani era excuse. If it were true, you can argue Cade is only in Year 1. No. It's Year 4 for both. Superior talent will rise to the top notwithstanding.

[Boogie!]

Reality is that Scottie is never going to be a good 3pt shooter, but that doesn't mean he can't be good offensively... Giannis is the obvious example.

I do expect adding Ingram will unlock Scottie in a way that most people don't expect.

Guy Giannis does things that Barnes will never be able to do.

That’s like saying, “the reality is Barrett will never be a good ft shooter but that doesn’t mean he can’t be good offensively, look at Shaq for example.”

[tsherkin]

Reality is that Scottie is never going to be a good 3pt shooter, but that doesn't mean he can't be good offensively... Giannis is the obvious example.

That's about as bad a comparison as I can think of.

Giannis is an athletic 7-footer with considerably more to work with on O than Scottie. They don't play anything alike. They CANNOT play anything alike. Scottie will never look like Giannis. GA was MIP in his age 22 season and All-NBA 2nd Team. At 23, as Barnes is now, he was an AS and All-NBA 2nd Team for the second straight season and just shy of 60% TS for the second straight season. Had rocked 22.9 / 8.8 / 5.4 in his age-22 season, then 26.9 / 10.0 / 4.8 in his age-23 season.

They are nothing alike, in development arc, physical tools or skillset.

But in the mean time, be patient.

Scottie will be 40, playing for Guandong, and you will still be telling people to "be patient" and wait for him to develop, man.

[Thaddy]

Reality is that Scottie is never going to be a good 3pt shooter, but that doesn't mean he can't be good offensively... Giannis is the obvious example.

That's about as bad a comparison as I can think of.

Giannis is an athletic 7-footer with considerably more to work with on O than Scottie. They don't play anything alike. They CANNOT play anything alike. Scottie will never look like Giannis. GA was MIP in his age 22 season and All-NBA 2nd Team. At 23, as Barnes is now, he was an AS and All-NBA 2nd Team for the second straight season and just shy of 60% TS for the second straight season. Had rocked 22.9 / 8.8 / 5.4 in his age-22 season, then 26.9 / 10.0 / 4.8 in his age-23 season.

They are nothing alike, in development arc, physical tools or skillset.

But in the mean time, be patient.

Scottie will be 40, playing for Guandong, and you will still be telling people to "be patient" and wait for him to develop, man.

The hope should be now to just let him roam free as the number 1 option and jack up shots. It'll help us tank and this would be the last chance for him to prove he can be that kind of player. Even if it's just mid range shots and FTs, he needs to show he can at least be a high volume scorer on mediocre efficiency.

[tsherkin]

The hope should be now to just let him roam free as the number 1 option and jack up shots.

Yeah, nothing should change right now. We can't really offer him anything which would help, and even though management doesn't seem to fully agree, we kind of need to be losing over the remainder of the season to max out our draft prospects. This isn't the moment to suddenly optimize Scottie, and certainly not to play Ingram.

There really isn't anything else to say at this point, I feel. We have 18 games left, we're not going to miraculously solve anything and he isn't going to suddenly suck less from 3 or do better about his other deficiencies. So we may as well just say "eh, **** it." We all know he's a bawlz volume scorer, but it is helping us lose, so there's that. And we don't have BI out there and we don't have whomever we draft and we haven't had an offseason for Masai to screw around and see if he can't make another move. So we don't know what we might look like going into next season which might influence how we can deploy Scottie.

It'll help us tank and this would be the last chance for him to prove he can be that kind of player. Even if it's just mid range shots and FTs, he needs to show he can at least be a high volume scorer on mediocre efficiency.

He isn't going to do that. He flatly hasn't shown us one thing which suggests that he can support that at all. Not in 4 years. And like, shooting decently on 2 short middies per game isn't going to change that. We know what we need to know about him in that particular role. We have learned other things that he does well, and there are ways to increase his overall efficiency, though it will require him to get off-ball and lower his overall possession count. And that's more for next year, when we should be taking an honest crack at winning as many games as we can again.

[Tripod]

Reading these comments would make you think he's a bust lol

I agree we gotta lower our expectations a bit on the offensive side which is what the org probably saw and wanted to get Ingram. He excels as a PF and as a play maker similar to Jokic than having the ball in his hands most of the time like Luka or Bron. He's unselfish and actually a great paint defender plus rebounds. I still like him as our Lowry/Draymond type of impact player but he can actually score much better being a 3rd option on a championship team.

I don't think people are watching the games.

He may be taking odd shots, and making some odd moves, but overall the focus is team development. The lower competition (current schedule) is a the perfect time.

Plus, him playing hurt is all the more reason to try it this way.

We know what he can do against way better competition.

Team development is incongruent with trying to lose and tanking. Instead, we are more focused on individual development, especially that of our younger players like Scottie. If anything, he's shooting more than he ought to because he's trying to develop his shot in live game situations. Next season when we're likely focusing on team effort putting it altogether to hunt for playoffs at which time I expect him to shoot more selectively and developing the team to win games.

I'll leave it at this.

A small percentage of people see/envision the greatness early on (I saw it in early in his rookie year). He's like a NBA's chameleon, greatness hidden in plain sight.

It took until his first development year, to "show" the "all-starness".

People want to say he's in year 4, but it's not a normal year 4, just look at the team as a whole.
If you don't understand that, I don't know what else to tell you.

But, Him being the selfless player, wants his teammates to develop (since the OG trade). He'll practice his odd shots and moves in between.
They'll be a few games he'll "explode" just to remind you he can do it.

But in the mean time, be patient.

I think the concern these days is the "greatness early on" is not materializing as expected. He' not showing the growth that we had hoped for and expected. It's looking like his "selfless" play may be because he's deferring to others out of necessity because he's not good at scoring. If he could shoot like Curry, he'd be shooting more often.

And I don't buy the idea that Year 4 is really year 2 or whatever. This sounds like Bargnani era excuse. If it were true, you can argue Cade is only in Year 1. No. It's Year 4 for both. Superior talent will rise to the top notwithstanding.

But the way some talk, he has disappointed from day 1.

He won ROTY over everyone else
He made the All Star game 1st from his draft class

From day 1 he was a long term project and a zero level scorer who needed shooters around him. But the rest of his game and ability to stuff the stat sheet and play good defense was his calling card. And so far that is holding true.

Some like to talk in absolutes but people can improve. Lowry was a sub 30 3pt shooter until year 5. Lopez never developed a 3 until year 9. Giannis is just developing his midrange game this year. Yak's FT shooting is 12% higher this year vs his career.

We have built a team where he doesn't have to be a top scorer. We have 3 guys who are naturally better scorers so no need to force-feed. We need to exploit matchups each game and who cares who gets the points. We have no star but a collection of very good players who do things others don't. Of the 4, none can shoot like IQ. None can drive like RJ. None have the midgame like BI. None play defense like Barnes. But they all, including Yak can pass the ball which is good for Darko's system.

I hope we keep these 4+Yak and see how they all mesh because it could be great.

[LoveMyRaps]

10/35 against the Wizards. 28% - inexcusable.

[Tripod]

10/35 against the Wizards. 28% - inexcusable.

RJ was 13/35 and has a go to move inside, great touch and footwork, and hits the 3 much better.

Sometimes guys just have bad games, weeks, etc...

Hell Curry went 13/35 in a game this year, arguably the best shooter of all time. Man he also went 12/41 over a 3 game stretch.

For sure he needs to be better...next year.

[dballislife]

scottie is playing like he doesn't want back to back years of just under 20ppg...hes been really chucking it up and the assist and efficiency been dropping...its kinda ugly and i think he just has to admit his scoring just isn't that good yet

[Brinbe]

Feels like he's a bit lost with his offense lately. Just no confidence in his shot and he's over-thinking or forcing things, especially when put into these half-court isolation spots where he's forced to be deliberate with his moves, which isn't his strong suit. Not exactly what you wanna see in terms of struggles, but not all progress is linear and he's still hustling, though you can see that tapering off a bit lately as it gets into the final stretch. But they're force-feeding him and putting him in positions to get those on-ball reps, which is fine in a developmental/rebuilding year. Short-term pain, long-term gain.

He's still only 23 going on 24 and there's still time on his side. At the very least he'll hopefully have a healthy/productive summer to work on his game and I think we'll get a better all-around Barnes next season.

[tsherkin]

Feels like he's a bit lost with his offense lately. Just no confidence in his shot and he's over-thinking or forcing things, especially when put into these half-court isolation spots where he's forced to be deliberate with his moves, which isn't his strong suit. Not exactly what you wanna see in terms of struggles, but not all progress is linear and he's still hustling, though you can see that tapering off a bit lately as it gets into the final stretch. But they're force-feeding him and putting him in positions to get those on-ball reps, which is fine in a developmental/rebuilding year. Short-term pain, long-term gain.

He's still only 23 going on 24 and there's still time on his side. At the very least he'll hopefully have a healthy/productive summer to work on his game and I think we'll get a better all-around Barnes next season.

He's working on his second season in three beneath 53% TS at the moment, which is about as diametrically opposed to the notion of "long-term gain" as I think you'll find, to be honest. He continues to demonstrate that he isn't the guy for that role, though as you say, it suits us in this particular season. I struggle with the idea that there is any reason for optimism over his scoring game when he's shown us basically nothing. We're certainly getting him the reps, but he's not doing anything interesting with them.

I want to be at least moderate about his mid-range action, but it's come at the cost of him getting to the rim and he's finishing worse at the rim when he does get there as well, which I don't love. And it's such a small portion of his game as not to matter in the face of his issues finishing in close, his 3pt shooting and his FT issues (drawing and hitting), right? 2 FGA/g or so is never going to overcome that. And he isn't elite inside of 10 feet, where he takes fully a quarter of his shots, either; in fact, he's almost 2.5% below league average there. So there's just so much going on where you're like "you're not putting anything together or showing us a positive, upward progression after 4 seasons," and that makes me heavily skeptical that he'll ever be worthwhile in any sort of on-ball volume role.

I usually equivocate over Scottie because he does have some positive elements to him, but after almost half a decade, I've got little else positive to say about him as a scorer. We'll have to see what happens alongside Ingram, but it'll probably orbit getting him off-ball as much as possible en route to the rim, and cutting down his total volume.

[Tripod]

As a few of us mentioned in the GDT, he has been holding his right hand lots lately and not slapping hands after a made FT. As per Blake:

Scottie Barnes is questionable Wednesday.

Has been dealing with a finger/hand sprain for a few games and aggravated it

[Raps in 4]

As a few of us mentioned in the GDT, he has been holding his right hand lots lately and not slapping hands after a made FT. As per Blake:

Scottie Barnes is questionable Wednesday.

Has been dealing with a finger/hand sprain for a few games and aggravated it

Dude is made of glass the same way OG was. He's constantly plagued by small injuries.

[XTC]

Guys if you really think about it, he played a back to back against Washington on the 8th + 13th! He's never had to do that before... so if you squint really hard, moving on this is actually his rookie season! Lrt consider this year 1 moving forward, and the previous games pre-season.

The goalpost moving honestly needs to stop. He's an elite defender, good playmaker, and a below average scorer. He's in year 4 and he honestly looks like the exact same player from his rookie season... except he has a higher usage. PER36 he's a guy who is going to give you 20/8/6 with 2.5-3.0 stocks on mediocre efficiency. If he can get to league average efficiency (LONG shot), he could end up being a very good #2, but I'm not holding my breath.

He has been completely leap frogged by Cade, Mobley, and Franz... I'd wager Sengun/JJ isnt going to be a discussion starting next season either.

[dTox]

As a few of us mentioned in the GDT, he has been holding his right hand lots lately and not slapping hands after a made FT. As per Blake:

Scottie Barnes is questionable Wednesday.

Has been dealing with a finger/hand sprain for a few games and aggravated it

Which makes playing through this injury even more baffling when considering we are neck and neck with 2 other team for that #5 draft position, just sit the dude out until he's 100%.

[ArthurVandelay]

As a few of us mentioned in the GDT, he has been holding his right hand lots lately and not slapping hands after a made FT. As per Blake:

Scottie Barnes is questionable Wednesday.

Has been dealing with a finger/hand sprain for a few games and aggravated it

There is a funky hitch in his release

It looks like his follow through is leading with his ring finger and pinkie and turning his hand.

Been noticing it more and more of late

[HumbleRen]

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[tsherkin]

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