Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[TorontoBarneys]

The only questions to ask regarding the Giannis stuff is:

1.) Is the 8-9 man rotation post-Giannis a great one?
2.) If not, is there some room left to upgrade it through a trade, e.g. RJ+picks for something?

Giannis trade is bizarre because both Poeltl and Barnes are seemingly bad fits with him. I think if you do swing for Giannis, more than one trade is required to properly retrofit the roster around him. I think Ingram & Quickley are key pieces to surround him with and need to stay.

[Gavin_TDThree]

RJ + Poeltl + 1st for Bam + Kyle Anderson

that'd be reaaaaaaally interesting. I'd have to think Bam's price is higher though. Especially since if they trade Bam they're heading for a rebuild

[YogurtProducer]

The only questions to ask regarding the Giannis stuff is:

1.) Is the 8-9 man rotation post-Giannis a great one?
2.) If not, is there some room left to upgrade it through a trade, e.g. RJ+picks for something?

Giannis trade is bizarre because both Poeltl and Barnes are seemingly bad fits with him. I think if you do swing for Giannis, more than one trade is required to properly retrofit the roster around him. I think Ingram & Quickley are key pieces to surround him with and need to stay.

I think if you go for Giannis you almost HAVE to move Poeltl in another deal.

is JJJ obtainable? That to me would be the best possible acquisition you could make.

Do the Giannis trade, then follow it up with Poeltl + ??? for JJJ.

IQ/Ochai/Ingram/Giannis/JJJ

[mtcan]

The only questions to ask regarding the Giannis stuff is:

1.) Is the 8-9 man rotation post-Giannis a great one?
2.) If not, is there some room left to upgrade it through a trade, e.g. RJ+picks for something?

Giannis trade is bizarre because both Poeltl and Barnes are seemingly bad fits with him. I think if you do swing for Giannis, more than one trade is required to properly retrofit the roster around him. I think Ingram & Quickley are key pieces to surround him with and need to stay.

Can you trade for Gianni's without giving up Scottie?

RJ, Poeltl, Dick and 3 first round picks and 2 swaps...is that feel like enough?

Then you have
Quickley/Shead
Agbaji/Walter
Ingram/Battle
Barnes/Mogbo
Giannis

[NinjaBro]

My sources from fellow realtors are telling me Thanasis is looking for a new home in the GTA. Take that information however you like. It's in the Brampton area.

[mtcan]

My sources from fellow realtors are telling me Thanasis is looking for a new home in the GTA. Take that information however you like. It's in the Brampton area.

Thanasis fits with the Brampton Yutes

[TDotAllStar]

When you have Giannis/Ingram duo with some good players like IQ/RJ/Yak potentially in the mix you are a contender especially in this weak east.....Bucks like i said had Portis/GTJr/Kuzma for depth....Dame was also not healthy during his Bucks run....If you have a chance to get Giannis you do it...

No, no you dont (when you consider the cost).

Masai isn't trading Scottie and he isn't trading the pick (nor should he). Raptors scouted this draft really well and they love this draft. This whole rumor is a bluff.

Lol ....He also wanted Giannis for 15 years....And been in pursuit of him since 2013...

What makes us contenders with this current team?....Sorry to tell you this current team we have is not close to being legit contenders....Barnes is not a top player he will always hover as a top 50 player but thats it....And Ingram is not a 1st option on a title team....We don't have enough to be true legit winners...Maybe a 6th seed sure but what good is that?

I would argue that Chet and J Dubb look around top 50 without Shai. Depending on what we give up, the team will look better around Giannis. Not saying we’d be title favourites but a player like Giannis changes the team ceiling and his teammates ceiling imo

[Raptorfan2012]

My sources from fellow realtors are telling me Thanasis is looking for a new home in the GTA. Take that information however you like. It's in the Brampton area.

Makes sense, Brampton is just up the highway from Paramount Fine Foods Centre.

[JB7]

The only questions to ask regarding the Giannis stuff is:

1.) Is the 8-9 man rotation post-Giannis a great one?
2.) If not, is there some room left to upgrade it through a trade, e.g. RJ+picks for something?

Giannis trade is bizarre because both Poeltl and Barnes are seemingly bad fits with him. I think if you do swing for Giannis, more than one trade is required to properly retrofit the roster around him. I think Ingram & Quickley are key pieces to surround him with and need to stay.

I think if you go for Giannis you almost HAVE to move Poeltl in another deal.

is JJJ obtainable? That to me would be the best possible acquisition you could make.

Do the Giannis trade, then follow it up with Poeltl + ??? for JJJ.

IQ/Ochai/Ingram/Giannis/JJJ

All of the discussion around Poeltl is always about how he and Giannis would mesh on O. Never any discussion about what Poeltl does for Giannis on D, which I think might be more important. Giannis, like AD, doesn't want to be cast in the role of C because he doesn't want to take the abuse under the basket defending, which Yak can easily do.

Poeltl is only playing 28 to 30 minutes a game anyways, and I wouldn't be surprised if like half of those minutes would be when Giannis is off the court.

I think they could make it work.

[MoneyBall]

We can't keep Poeltl if Giannis comes over. A front court with zero outside shooting is a death sentence in today's NBA.

Not, when one of them is Giannis. Just his presence alone, will suck the defense in to him and creates opportunities for everybody else.

Can you name me the last team that made the NBA Finals with both frontcourt players being poor long range shooters?

[YogurtProducer]

The only questions to ask regarding the Giannis stuff is:

1.) Is the 8-9 man rotation post-Giannis a great one?
2.) If not, is there some room left to upgrade it through a trade, e.g. RJ+picks for something?

Giannis trade is bizarre because both Poeltl and Barnes are seemingly bad fits with him. I think if you do swing for Giannis, more than one trade is required to properly retrofit the roster around him. I think Ingram & Quickley are key pieces to surround him with and need to stay.

I think if you go for Giannis you almost HAVE to move Poeltl in another deal.

is JJJ obtainable? That to me would be the best possible acquisition you could make.

Do the Giannis trade, then follow it up with Poeltl + ??? for JJJ.

IQ/Ochai/Ingram/Giannis/JJJ

All of the discussion around Poeltl is always about how he and Giannis would mesh on O. Never any discussion about what Poeltl does for Giannis on D, which I think might be more important. Giannis, like AD, doesn't want to be cast in the role of C because he doesn't want to take the abuse under the basket defending, which Yak can easily do.

Poeltl is only playing 28 to 30 minutes a game anyways, and I wouldn't be surprised if like half of those minutes would be when Giannis is off the court.

I think they could make it work.

True, but if you could swing for JJJ he would do all that, plus be able to space the floor and play with Giannis a lot.

[PushDaRock]

We can't keep Poeltl if Giannis comes over. A front court with zero outside shooting is a death sentence in today's NBA.

Not, when one of them is Giannis. Just his presence alone, will suck the defense in to him and creates opportunities for everybody else.

Can you name me the last team that made the NBA Finals with both frontcourt players being poor long range shooters?

22/23 Heat played the majority of minutes with Bam at C and Butler at PF

[JB7]

We can't keep Poeltl if Giannis comes over. A front court with zero outside shooting is a death sentence in today's NBA.

Not, when one of them is Giannis. Just his presence alone, will suck the defense in to him and creates opportunities for everybody else.

Can you name me the last team that made the NBA Finals with both frontcourt players being poor long range shooters?

SAS (Robinson & Duncan) - Raps going retro

[JB7]

I think if you go for Giannis you almost HAVE to move Poeltl in another deal.

is JJJ obtainable? That to me would be the best possible acquisition you could make.

Do the Giannis trade, then follow it up with Poeltl + ??? for JJJ.

IQ/Ochai/Ingram/Giannis/JJJ

All of the discussion around Poeltl is always about how he and Giannis would mesh on O. Never any discussion about what Poeltl does for Giannis on D, which I think might be more important. Giannis, like AD, doesn't want to be cast in the role of C because he doesn't want to take the abuse under the basket defending, which Yak can easily do.

Poeltl is only playing 28 to 30 minutes a game anyways, and I wouldn't be surprised if like half of those minutes would be when Giannis is off the court.

I think they could make it work.

True, but if you could swing for JJJ he would do all that, plus be able to space the floor and play with Giannis a lot.

Problem is defensively, JJJ wants to play the same role as Giannis does, help defender (shot blocker). He also doesn't want to be under the basket taking the abuse.

[ArthurVandelay]

The only questions to ask regarding the Giannis stuff is:

1.) Is the 8-9 man rotation post-Giannis a great one?
2.) If not, is there some room left to upgrade it through a trade, e.g. RJ+picks for something?

Giannis trade is bizarre because both Poeltl and Barnes are seemingly bad fits with him. I think if you do swing for Giannis, more than one trade is required to properly retrofit the roster around him. I think Ingram & Quickley are key pieces to surround him with and need to stay.

I think if you go for Giannis you almost HAVE to move Poeltl in another deal.

is JJJ obtainable? That to me would be the best possible acquisition you could make.

Do the Giannis trade, then follow it up with Poeltl + ??? for JJJ.

IQ/Ochai/Ingram/Giannis/JJJ

That would be pretty scary good

probably not realistic, but on paper, hell yeah

[tsherkin]

I think what you need to try to incorporate into your evaluations is context. For example, BI was an efficient scorer in the two years when he played next to a legit point-guard (Jrue, Ball). He became less efficient when their pgs became Alvarado and CJ Mcollum, which, I think is pretty logical.

I already incorporate plenty of context. But my posts are long enough often enough that people already don't read all of them. I can't go every individual component each time I post; it's exhausting, and should be unnecessary. And already people don't pay attention to the details of what I say

I agree that roster context makes a difference, and I agree that BI (when healthy) is a positive gain for us. But he's not going to get to the rim a lot, not going to get to the line a lot. He may increase his 3pt volume, which should help adjust, for sure. But he's played on some quality teams already, and if he's ANOTHER guy who can't get it done without the PG rolling out the red carpet for him, that speaks to his ceiling in terms of what he can provide. This is perhaps mildly hyperbolic, because he'll at least be able to score at league average efficiency, which won't be bad in a complementary option who isn't a corner specialist, of course. But it does limit how exciting the proposition of having him around is. That dependency is something we already have in everyone else on the team (save for the hypothetical introduction of Giannis).

So then when we're discussing matching off against our relative defensive weaknesses, we need to improve our overall offensive punch. And if our guys have a ceiling based on the need for yet another player-type which we've lacked for quite some time now, then it's going to be a problem, and thus worth discussing.



At the end of the day, though, it's both an unlikely hypothetical... and if it does come through, it's somewhat moot. It's a sort of First World problem. Having Giannis, we immediately push near 50 wins, regardless of our weaknesses. We don't look like a title team, which is sort of what I was saying when I got into this initially. I don't agree that the lineup I initially started talking about looks at all "unstoppable," though I agree it would be quite good. And a TON of fun to watch! It would certainly be loads better than what we have now for a couple seasons.

Now, you replace Barrett with a better shooter who also isn't a disaster on defense, and that becomes even more interesting, of course. And if somehow find ourselves a backup 5 who can step out and take a corner 3... THEN I'd start throwing around the U-word, heh.

[PushDaRock]

All of the discussion around Poeltl is always about how he and Giannis would mesh on O. Never any discussion about what Poeltl does for Giannis on D, which I think might be more important. Giannis, like AD, doesn't want to be cast in the role of C because he doesn't want to take the abuse under the basket defending, which Yak can easily do.

Poeltl is only playing 28 to 30 minutes a game anyways, and I wouldn't be surprised if like half of those minutes would be when Giannis is off the court.

I think they could make it work.

True, but if you could swing for JJJ he would do all that, plus be able to space the floor and play with Giannis a lot.

Problem is defensively, JJJ wants to play the same role as Giannis does, help defender (shot blocker). He also doesn't want to be under the basket taking the abuse.

lol basically looking for a unicorn if you want a 5 willing to bang down low, protect the rim, rebound and be able to provide spacing on the offensive end

[YogurtProducer]

True, but if you could swing for JJJ he would do all that, plus be able to space the floor and play with Giannis a lot.

Problem is defensively, JJJ wants to play the same role as Giannis does, help defender (shot blocker). He also doesn't want to be under the basket taking the abuse.

lol basically looking for a unicorn if you want a 5 willing to bang down low, protect the rim, rebound and be able to provide spacing on the offensive end

Pretty much.

I would take my chances on not having a 5 banging down low. Who realistically is a 5 that is doing that right now anyways in the East? Embiid? But realistically I am not to worried about Philly anymore.

Jokic yes, but in a playoff series I think Giannis or JJJ could suck it up and just guard the guy.

[OakleyDokely]

Not, when one of them is Giannis. Just his presence alone, will suck the defense in to him and creates opportunities for everybody else.

Can you name me the last team that made the NBA Finals with both frontcourt players being poor long range shooters?

22/23 Heat played the majority of minutes with Bam at C and Butler at PF

GS was starting Looney+Draymond

[TravisScott55]

Delusion

Delusion is thinking the gap between Siakam and Ingram + Turner and Quickley is greater than the gap between Giannis and Haliburton. Giannis is a top 3-5 player — a true superstar in the league — whereas Haliburton is a borderline All-NBA player. Giannis is one of maybe 5 players that singlehandedly would elevate almost any team in the league to contender status. That is far more important than the extra defence that Siakam and Turner give the Pacers while Ingram and IQ are slightly better offensive players.

Haliburton being hella overrated on here. Before this playoff run I bet most people wouldn’t have even considered him a top 15 player in the league and now all of the sudden he’s basically as good as Giannis? Okay lol.

Yep.

Ingram and Siakam are the same tier of player. Both are all-star caliber guys who might make an all-nba team if the stars align.
Quick and Turner are both guys who are 4th/5th starters. I like Turner, but he has just as many flaws as IQ does. He is a center who averaged 6.5rpg and is not some elite defender. Blocks shots but isn't a great defender by any means.

You add Giannis to this team and we are easily at Indiana's level.