With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
I think many are still in the GS era thinking shooting and offense is everything, but if you look at the past three championship teams they’ve had some crazy defenders with decent offensive game. I think acquiring a scorer in this league is becoming easier building a roster of defensive beasts is a lot harder.
OKC had 3-4 guys arguably all defensive team guys. Caruso, Williams, Dort, Wallace.
I think what we need to realize is it’s not that hard to find offensive guys who are 8/10, Lavine, Derozan, Brown.. etc. acquisition cost is not too bad. However the issue is what level of D can you extract from these guys level 4-6 maybe 7 tops. So at the end you have a guy with a net score of 14-15/20. On the flip side you get guys who are defensive 8-9s but with scoring potential. They might now hit 8-9 levels but get to 7 levels. You end up having guys contributing net levels of 16-17. I think this is what Masai is trying to do. Makes a ton of sense. Raps now have Jakob, Barnes, CMB, Mogbo, Shead and Jakob that have their own potential to all have defensive floors of 7/8, but decent offensive games as well. However, this is where the BI’s and IQs of the world can balance your roster.
This also makes Masai’s acquisitions going forward more predictable. Guys like White, Giannis. If you looked at the last team, it was Lowry, Pascal, Fred, Kawhi, Gasol, Ibaka and the bench mob.
This makes someone like Desmond Bane that much more attractive.
I can now see why we are still interested in Cam Johnson. Or why OG commanded such a high price as well as Bridges.
With this being said, I think a move of RJ, Dick and possibly IQ might be inevitable. IQ has decent defensive stats, but is a bit weak against bigger guards. In someways I can kind of see Shead being our future PG in the next two years especially if he can improve his offense.
OKC had 3-4 guys arguably all defensive team guys. Caruso, Williams, Dort, Wallace.
I think what we need to realize is it’s not that hard to find offensive guys who are 8/10, Lavine, Derozan, Brown.. etc. acquisition cost is not too bad. However the issue is what level of D can you extract from these guys level 4-6 maybe 7 tops. So at the end you have a guy with a net score of 14-15/20. On the flip side you get guys who are defensive 8-9s but with scoring potential. They might now hit 8-9 levels but get to 7 levels. You end up having guys contributing net levels of 16-17. I think this is what Masai is trying to do. Makes a ton of sense. Raps now have Jakob, Barnes, CMB, Mogbo, Shead and Jakob that have their own potential to all have defensive floors of 7/8, but decent offensive games as well. However, this is where the BI’s and IQs of the world can balance your roster.
This also makes Masai’s acquisitions going forward more predictable. Guys like White, Giannis. If you looked at the last team, it was Lowry, Pascal, Fred, Kawhi, Gasol, Ibaka and the bench mob.
This makes someone like Desmond Bane that much more attractive.
I can now see why we are still interested in Cam Johnson. Or why OG commanded such a high price as well as Bridges.
With this being said, I think a move of RJ, Dick and possibly IQ might be inevitable. IQ has decent defensive stats, but is a bit weak against bigger guards. In someways I can kind of see Shead being our future PG in the next two years especially if he can improve his offense.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Just breath!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
What line ups will we see him in? Defensively and even offensively he is ready but he's a bad fit here.
He looks more SF sized like Mogbo than big man sized. We're going to have 2 guard sized bigs in our rotation... Isn't that a problem?
He looks more SF sized like Mogbo than big man sized. We're going to have 2 guard sized bigs in our rotation... Isn't that a problem?
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
I like CMB's skillset, a very talented player, cool guy but i dont see the fit with our current roster, sadly... after 4 years, masai still has no vision, wtf is this guy doing... ujiri needs a change of scenery
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Going into the draft I was supportive of taking a C or big wing or Pg (fears) at 9 as long as FO had a great plan during draft. By plan I mean trading a small wing which we have too many to even give decent mins too. However, I was shocked we did not make a pre draft trade or trade for a late first to asset management the team. We also took a player that was about 5 on big boards if you did take C or big wing. Khaman M, Carter B, Noa E and maybe Derik Q all would have projected better for our current team.
Hope the poster that does grade FO puts out post after Draft and after FA.
This pick is a D grade at best! Front office should be trending down. This did not have to be since there were 4 BFA on board at time it is just a tunnel vision issue I guess????
Hope the poster that does grade FO puts out post after Draft and after FA.
This pick is a D grade at best! Front office should be trending down. This did not have to be since there were 4 BFA on board at time it is just a tunnel vision issue I guess????
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
OakleyDokely wrote:MoneyBall wrote:OakleyDokely wrote:You'd think after the championship people would lose the 'woe is me' attitude, but I guess not. Even if CMB didn't want to be in Toronto, who gives a F? You think Ainge is worried whether Ace wants to be in UTA? Most guys once they get here like the city and the franchise and CMB probably won't be much different.
I don't believe that you believe it doesn't matter one ioda wether players want to play for our city. It does matter.
I agree that many players change their tune once they get here, but why would that matter to you if it has zero importance?
I think running with the idea that he doesn't want to be here based on an ambiguous draft reaction is the lamest thing ever.
If he came out before the draft and said he didn't want to be in Toronto, that would be one thing, but in every interview he gave before the draft, he only said nice things.
You said even if he doesn't want to be here, who gives a f***. I do, and I think you do too. It's dishonest to suggest a person's happiness is completely irrelevant.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
The live tv reaction wasn’t great and it does seem initially this wasn’t the team he wanted to go to. Obviously I think a lot of that is probably due to fit/playing time, which we all know about. End of day he’s gonna show up and we have him. And he’s 20 years old, you can’t forget he’s still kind of a kid. End of day unless you’re LA/NY/Miami/Chicago I don’t think any of these kids are thrilled about these cities they don’t know about.
2019 Eastern Conference All Stars
Derozan
Lowry
Ibaka
Valanciunas
Van Vleet
Delon Wright
Lebron
Embiid
There are only 2 teams in the league that rank in the top 6 in offensive and defensive efficiency: the Golden State Warriors and the Toronto Raptors.
Derozan
Lowry
Ibaka
Valanciunas
Van Vleet
Delon Wright
Lebron
Embiid
There are only 2 teams in the league that rank in the top 6 in offensive and defensive efficiency: the Golden State Warriors and the Toronto Raptors.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Thaddy wrote:What line ups will we see him in? Defensively and even offensively he is ready but he's a bad fit here.
He looks more SF sized like Mogbo than big man sized. We're going to have 2 guard sized bigs in our rotation... Isn't that a problem?
CMB isn't SF sized though. He has a 7'1 wingspan, a 8'10 standing reach and he weighs 240lbs. Mogbo is long, but doesn't have the heft CMB has. CMB will be able to play some smallball C, and he will be able to defend multiple positions/spots on the floor.
Offensively, the fit is trickier until the shot comes around, but he's got good hands, he finishes well around the net and he can act as secondary ballhandler and playmaker.
The fit isn't perfect, but they think he was the best talent available, so they took him.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Thaddy wrote:What line ups will we see him in? Defensively and even offensively he is ready but he's a bad fit here.
He looks more SF sized like Mogbo than big man sized. We're going to have 2 guard sized bigs in our rotation... Isn't that a problem?
Hard for us to see the fit but there are smart basketball people out there that think he fits well. Samson has made his case so I’d start there.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
I think it was fairly easy to tell that his reaction was one of genuine disbelief, but turns out a lot of people on this board, general fans and Sid have an inability to see any semblance of nuance.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
MoneyBall wrote:OakleyDokely wrote:MoneyBall wrote:I don't believe that you believe it doesn't matter one ioda wether players want to play for our city. It does matter.
I agree that many players change their tune once they get here, but why would that matter to you if it has zero importance?
I think running with the idea that he doesn't want to be here based on an ambiguous draft reaction is the lamest thing ever.
If he came out before the draft and said he didn't want to be in Toronto, that would be one thing, but in every interview he gave before the draft, he only said nice things.
You said even if he doesn't want to be here, who gives a f***. I do, and I think you do too. It's dishonest to suggest a person's happiness is completely irrelevant.
For some guys Toronto will be one of their top choices, for other guys it won't be.
But how is this different than any other city?
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Mattatron wrote:I like CMB's skillset, a very talented player, cool guy but i dont see the fit with our current roster, sadly... after 4 years, masai still has no vision, wtf is this guy doing... ujiri needs a change of scenery
GMs that draft for need find themselves out of a job quickly.
Harper is a terrible fit in SA but they drafted him anyway because he’s a great talent. They’ll figure out fit later. Masai will do the same.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
He might have just reacted strangely, but for people saying he wouldn’t have worked out with us if he didn’t want to be here, you are assuming he felt like he had that kind of leverage. That’s the kind of thing consensus top 2-3 picks can maybe afford to do, and even then it comes with a risk/cost. Guys ranked mid-to-low lottery generally just suck it up and go wherever they were drafted.
Toronto’s a great city, though, and plenty of guys who weren’t wild about the idea of coming here end up loving it. Otoh to many Americans Toronto might as well be on the moon. Americans generally know and care little about the world outside of the U.S. and with Trump’s crap lately there is growing antipathy to Canada. If that’s the case there’s not much we can do about it, but meanwhile he has very little leverage; what agency players get mainly come into play when they hit the market, before that it’s damned near indentured servitude, albeit richly rewarded.
Or it might not be as much hating Toronto as having had a strong preference/hope for a specific team and we were not that team. If so he’s even less likely to be a problem, he had to realize that going to your top choice was a long shot, although maybe he was getting ‘if you’re there at ___ we’re picking you’ conversations which might have raised his hopes. But at the end of the day it’s a business, and unless he’s an idiot he realizes that much, and I expect that he’ll do and say all the right things for at least a while. His dream came mostly true, he’s a lottery pick playing in the NBA, he’s probably been imagining this for many years.
I don’t expect a problem unless the Raptors were incompetent in their assessments of his character/personality.
Toronto’s a great city, though, and plenty of guys who weren’t wild about the idea of coming here end up loving it. Otoh to many Americans Toronto might as well be on the moon. Americans generally know and care little about the world outside of the U.S. and with Trump’s crap lately there is growing antipathy to Canada. If that’s the case there’s not much we can do about it, but meanwhile he has very little leverage; what agency players get mainly come into play when they hit the market, before that it’s damned near indentured servitude, albeit richly rewarded.
Or it might not be as much hating Toronto as having had a strong preference/hope for a specific team and we were not that team. If so he’s even less likely to be a problem, he had to realize that going to your top choice was a long shot, although maybe he was getting ‘if you’re there at ___ we’re picking you’ conversations which might have raised his hopes. But at the end of the day it’s a business, and unless he’s an idiot he realizes that much, and I expect that he’ll do and say all the right things for at least a while. His dream came mostly true, he’s a lottery pick playing in the NBA, he’s probably been imagining this for many years.
I don’t expect a problem unless the Raptors were incompetent in their assessments of his character/personality.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
OakleyDokely wrote:MoneyBall wrote:OakleyDokely wrote:
I think running with the idea that he doesn't want to be here based on an ambiguous draft reaction is the lamest thing ever.
If he came out before the draft and said he didn't want to be in Toronto, that would be one thing, but in every interview he gave before the draft, he only said nice things.
You said even if he doesn't want to be here, who gives a f***. I do, and I think you do too. It's dishonest to suggest a person's happiness is completely irrelevant.
I was arguing the other side when I said "even if he didn't want to be here"
I believe this whole issue is a non issue.
I agree, it's a non issue. I was taking issue with people calling some of our fans insecure solely based on their initial interpretation to CMB's reaction. I don't think it takes an insecure person to come to conclusion that he didn't look thrilled.
In any case, I'm glad everything is cleared up now and I wish him lots of success.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
We all need to give Jerry his due here....dude literally cracked Masai's code. His picture needs to go up in the RealGM Hall of Fame right beside ITBobby
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Los_29 wrote:Mattatron wrote:I like CMB's skillset, a very talented player, cool guy but i dont see the fit with our current roster, sadly... after 4 years, masai still has no vision, wtf is this guy doing... ujiri needs a change of scenery
GMs that draft for need find themselves out of a job quickly.
Harper is a terrible fit in SA but they drafted him anyway because he’s a great talent. They’ll figure out fit later. Masai will do the same.
+1 You always draft BPA. Roster turnover can be rapid in the NBA.
I followed this draft closer than I've followed any in the last 5-7 years. There was no clear better player than CMB at that pick.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Godaddycurse wrote:This is what it looks like when someone doesn't want to be there:

What is that response. But he will look back at this as a blessing. Go be the Jazz Kobe.
Spoiler:

Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Federalies wrote:Just breath!
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This will be a teaching moment for him to understand that everything he does and say in public gets picked up immediatly. His intentions doesnt matter, only the perception. I honestly hate that, cause i like players to be more human than robotic in their appearances.
Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!
Westside Gunn wrote:Watched some of his tapes yesterday. This morning the Rondae Hollis Jefferson comparison made by a poster isn't that far off.
Thinking of other undersized PF/C's who didn't have much of a shot: Joey Graham, Justice Winslow, Pops Mensah Bonsu, DeJuan Blair, PJ Tucker. And I brought up Corliss Williamson who is probably the best case scenario.
Masai is really good at what he does, but the history of undersized players that cant shoot the ball is pretty ****.
Charles Barkley was a long time ago
If he doesn't develop a shot or can't finish with authority around the basket, which is his comfort zone, he will be forced to take a mid range which he should be okay with, or else he will struggle being really far out near the 3 point line.
I don't know which direction the game is headed with SGA having success and the Pacers, but if the mid ranger is here to say there just might be some promise here.
Not exactly optimistic about the pick but I'm rootin for all this year
I mean there is a wide range of possibilities, lol.
Draymond, Randle, Gordon etc. are also decent comparables...especially if he can develop a decent 3 point shot. Remember Siakim couldn't shoot for **** his first 2 years, but he was effective as a high motor hustle player with quickness, lots of length, soft hands that could run the floor and defend. Once he developed that shot he became a star.
Time will tell.