Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

toka · Post #781 » by **toka** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:28 pm

He's not half as athletic as Gilbert Arenas though. I don't know if it's about 'swagger' or rather if he can get his shot off in the NBA. At 6'2'', do NBA teams play him as a point guard who plays no defense and isn't a play maker. His ability to make shots is uncanny and would be interesting to some teams.

As much as people rag on Calderon for his defense, I'm surprised anyone on the Raps board would even consider drafting Jimmer for that same reason.

Post #782 » by **Alfred** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:29 pm

Youngblood wrote:
Alfred wrote:Does anyone watch the Jimmer highlights and think to themselves "Gil"? Those uber long shots off the dribble just remind me of Gilbert so much.

I have thought about that before but I'm not sure. I thought for a while about it, but there has to be something that separates them.

Well, Gil is bigger and longer, for one. Gil's defense, while obviously not really that great is still probably better than Jimmer's. Jimmer also hasn't done his "thing" in the NBA, which exposes people's weaknesses, so there could be some hitch that prevents him from dominating offensively like he does in college.

But the things he does have going for him -- unlimited range, great scoring instincts around the basket, a good handle on the ball -- they're all reminiscent of Gilbert.

Post #783 » by **FluLikeSymptoms** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:31 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:Kemba will not be Iverson. that guy was a very, very rare athlete with crazy talent.

He was very long, too, so he could extend and maintain the space he created in order to finish below the rim. His length, along with his ridiculous speed, also let him be an effective gambler which was something on the defensive end.

And he was... incredible. If Iverson were in this draft you wouldn't be debating whether he was worth the #5 pick like people are doing with Walker, he'd be the consensus #1 and the draft might be considered decent. You knew AI was going to get hit shot off in the NBA, with Kemba, Knight, Jimmer(unless he pulls-up from 35ft, I agree there is a little Gil, Alfred), you don't.

toka · Post #784 » by **toka** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:33 pm

Alfred wrote:Well, Gil is bigger and longer, for one. Gil's defense, while obviously not really that great is still probably better than Jimmer's. Jimmer also hasn't done his "thing" in the NBA, which exposes people's weaknesses, so there could be some hitch that prevents him from dominating offensively like he does in college.

But the things he does have going for him -- unlimited range, great scoring instincts around the basket, a good handle on the ball -- they're all reminiscent of Gilbert.

Yep, it's called lack of athleticism. It's the same hitch that prevents the 'Stache from dominating offensively in the NBA.

baulderdash77 · Post #785 » by **baulderdash77** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:37 pm

Kemba's listed at 6'1". I don't know why everyone's saying he's 5'10" tall. I guess we'll have to wait until the pre-draft measurements come out.

In my mind Kemba keeps rising as far as draft stock. He's just such a good ballhandler, shot maker and most of all winner. Watching him out there, he would be getting 7+ assists per game too if his teammates were any good. That's pretty much the main reason he's getting 23-24 points a game- because most of his teammates suck.

If we're drafting 5th and Irving, Barnes & Williams are gone (like I think they will all be) then I'd have no problem at all with Kemba.

arbsn · Post #786 » by **arbsn** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:39 pm

5DOM wrote:
Youngblood wrote:
5DOM wrote:I'd be happy if we can get a Tony Parker level player tbh.

Tony Parker is really good though. You think Kemba can be as good or better than Tony?

Probably not. That's why I said I'd be happy if he could reach that level. It's also much lower than Iverson or Hardaway's level.

Uh you're talking about a Finals MVP who was banging Eva Longoria then cheated on her to **** models.

In my opinion, TP > Allen & Tim

PS If we take Jimmer Fredette, Kemba Walker, OR Brandon Knight with a top 7 pick, I'll PUKE everywhere.

If we trade down to the late lottery/teens I'd take Kemba. No thanks on Jimmer or Brandon though.

Post #787 » by **Alfred** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:39 pm

Adam Morrison's problem was that he couldn't effectively get his shot off in the NBA, and that had as much to do with shot mechanics as his lack of athleticism. Maybe it's just me, but I don't forsee that being a problem that Jimmer is going to have. His first step might not be good enough to get by guys in the NBA, but I think he'll still be able to operate with screens and use his insanely quick release and unlimited range to get his shot off.

He's an interesting prospect, but obviously not for our pick. I see him going late lotto, sort of like J.J. Redick did.

arbsn · Post #788 » by **arbsn** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:41 pm

You guys realize Jimmer Fredette doesn't play defense - BYU plays 3-2 zone and hide him on defense

You guys are always complaining about Jose / Bargnani's lack of defense great now you want another guy who can shoot but plays no defense

WOW RAPTORS FANS UR KILLING ME.

Post #789 » by **Alfred** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:42 pm

I already said that he didn't play defense. I think everyone knows that he doesn't play defense.

JamesNaismith · Post #790 » by **JamesNaismith** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:42 pm

For me it's.....

Irving
Barnes
Perry Jones
DWilliams
Kanter (if his measurements are truly 6'11)

Or just trade it away for something else....

Would anyone else trade our pick and Davis for both of Cleveland's IF they got the #1 pick??

Kevin Willis · Post #791 » by **Kevin Willis** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:43 pm

Youngblood wrote:
Alfred wrote:Does anyone watch the Jimmer highlights and think to themselves "Gil"? Those uber long shots off the dribble just remind me of Gilbert so much.

I have thought about that before but I'm not sure. I thought for a while about it, but there has to be something that separates them.

What do you think it is? Jimmer is just an unconscious scorer. Even more so than S. Curry which is another obvious comparison. What's a closer comparison - Curry or Arenas?

baulderdash77 · Post #792 » by **baulderdash77** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:44 pm

arbsn wrote:You guys realize Jimmer Fredette doesn't play defense - BYU plays 3-2 zone and hide him on defense

You guys are always complaining about Jose / Bargnani's lack of defense great now you want another guy who can shoot but plays no defense

WOW RAPTORS FANS UR KILLING ME.

I see it too. Fredette is a junk NBA prospect. In the NBA he's going to be a slow undersized SG with no defense. Or he'll be a disaster as a PG because he has a poor handle and he doesn't play defense.

I don't see how he's going to get more than 10-15 minutes per night.

BTW I have lots of respect for Fredette in the NCAA where he can bully his way around, toss up off balance shots and get a cult following.

just23 · Post #793 » by **just23** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:49 pm

baulderdash77 wrote:
arbsn wrote:You guys realize Jimmer Fredette doesn't play defense - BYU plays 3-2 zone and hide him on defense

You guys are always complaining about Jose / Bargnani's lack of defense great now you want another guy who can shoot but plays no defense

WOW RAPTORS FANS UR KILLING ME.

I don't think anyone said they wanted Jimmer on the Raptors. I liked what the realgm mock draft said about him being best off with the 76ers where they have great perimeter defenders already, who can make up for his lack of defense while they take advantage of finally having a great pure scorer. On the Raptors, we all know he'd just be adding to our problems on defense.

arbsn · Post #794 » by **arbsn** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:49 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:What do you think it is? Jimmer is just an unconscious scorer. Even more so than S. Curry which is another obvious comparison. What's a closer comparison - Curry or Arenas?

Neither, I see him being more of an Eddie House / JJ Redick

JamesNaismith wrote:Would anyone else trade our pick and Davis for both of Cleveland's IF they got the #1 pick??

Yes, no brainer for me.... and no brainers usually mean the other team would NEVER do it...

Silk Wilkes · Post #795 » by **Silk Wilkes** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:50 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Youngblood wrote:
Alfred wrote:Does anyone watch the Jimmer highlights and think to themselves "Gil"? Those uber long shots off the dribble just remind me of Gilbert so much.

I have thought about that before but I'm not sure. I thought for a while about it, but there has to be something that separates them.

What do you think it is? Jimmer is just an unconscious scorer. Even more so than S. Curry which is another obvious comparison. What's a closer comparison - Curry or Arenas?

Curry is closer but even then Jimmer doesn't have the ball handling like Steph. He's just gonna be a "poor mans" someone in the NBA. Not worth a lottery pick imo. Maybe a smart team like San Antonio can pick him and hide him in the defense.

toka · Post #796 » by **toka** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:51 pm

About the perception that Kemba is a 'shoot-first' point guard.

Here are UConn's rotation player's field goal %s.

Alex Oriakhi - 6'9 F/C - 49% (with his physical tools he should be dominating like Cousins did last year, but he plays soft and can't finish)
Charles Okwandu - 7'1 C - 46%

Jeremy Lamb - 6'6'' Wing - 48%
Jamal Coombs-McDaniel - 6'7 SF/PF - 42%
Shabazz Napier - 6'0 PG - 38%
Roscoe Smith - 6'8 SF/PF - 38%

Jeremy Lamb is probably the only one able to consistently finish going to the basket with his little floater.

As far as Ty Lawson being a much better decision maker with great court vision. Lawson played with Tyler Hansborough, Ed Davis & Deon Thompson(14-7 post guy) in the front court, and in the back court he had Wayne Ellington, Danny Green & Marcus Ginyard. 3 First round picks, a 2nd rounder, and a very good college post player. It doesn't take incredible court vision to throw the ball down into the blocks to Hansborough or Thompson.

JamesNaismith · Post #797 » by **JamesNaismith** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:54 pm

As Raptor fan's I'm surprised that people are comparing him to Iverson which is way off....

And not more like this man:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhj9m92hB3E[/youtube]

IMO this is his ceiling!

Brinbe · Post #798 » by **Brinbe** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:54 pm

Why the hell would we add Jimmer? He's not bad, but he's clearly best-suited for a talented contending team that needs help right now.

We need to target high-end talent like a Knight, simple as that. Also why I'm weary of targeting a Walker. 18>20>22 (holy crap, Jimmer's the same age as Bayless) :lol:

And holy crap, Draftexpress has Knight at 8 now. If his stock is really up there now, we have to consider him. Simple as that.

Silk Wilkes · Post #799 » by **Silk Wilkes** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:55 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:As Raptor fan's I'm surprised that people are comparing him to Iverson which is way off....

And not more like this man:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhj9m92hB3E[/youtube]

IMO this is his ceiling!

No one said he's Iverson, I just said I'd want him to be Iverson if I drafted him top-5. This Mighty Mouse comparison is interesting though, I wouldn't mind another one of those! I didn't think about Kemba like that.

CunningLinguist · Post #800 » by **CunningLinguist** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

baulderdash77 wrote:Kemba's listed at 6'1". I don't know why everyone's saying he's 5'10" tall. I guess we'll have to wait until the pre-draft measurements come out.

In my mind Kemba keeps rising as far as draft stock. He's just such a good ballhandler, shot maker and most of all winner. Watching him out there, he would be getting 7+ assists per game too if his teammates were any good. That's pretty much the main reason he's getting 23-24 points a game- because most of his teammates suck.

If we're drafting 5th and Irving, Barnes & Williams are gone (like I think they will all be) then I'd have no problem at all with Kemba.

I think he'll end up measuring a little under 6 feet without shoes, not that it matters to me. If there's one position where height isn't that important, it's point guard. In fact, if you're too tall, it can negatively impact your lateral quicks on defense. There aren't many point guards in the NBA that are going to post him up to take advantage of the size difference, it's really more an issue on defensive switches. Kemba's also a lot stronger than he looks. Just watch him absorb contact when he takes it to the rim.

A lack of size was the knock on Chris Paul entering the league too.